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From The Vaults 4: Elisabeth Lutyens

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Author	Topic: From The Vaults 4: Elisabeth Lutyens

Graham Watt Wizard	Elisabeth Lutyens wrote a lot for the concert hall (Schoenberg-influenced twelve tone stuff, I think), but her film work is just amazing. No great classics in her filmography, but some well-done horror movies for both Hammer and Amicus. In fact, it's for the lesser of the two studios that she wrote, in my humble opinion, her most interesting work. DOCTOR TERROR'S HOUSE OF HORRORS was an early compendium film built around Peter Cushing as a fortune teller (the Messenger from Hell!) on a train. And THE SKULL had Cushing and Christopher Lee under the malevolent influence of the cranium of the Marquis De Sade! Both movies have really interesting scores - small combinations of instruments which showcase the soloists, lots of subtle percussion, very little in the way of "tunes", but extremely inventive all the way. THE SKULL in particular is virtually wordless for the second half, and those lengthy scenes rely almost entirely on Cushing's superb performance and the amazingly effective music. From unsettling small combo to hellishly nerve-racking cacophony, Elisabeth Lutyens ran the scary gamut brilliantly. So what do YOU think of Liz Lutyens?
posted 09-28-2002 08:54 AM PT (US)

Guenther Koegebehn Wizard	Speaking of 12-tone Lizzy... Has anyone seen (heard?) her documentaries she did in the 1940s?` G
posted 10-01-2002 01:06 AM PT (US)

Graham Watt Wizard	Guenther, I didn't know she had done documentaries in the 40s. I'm sure the music is fascinating. In his book on the music from the Hammer films, Randall Larson mentions that Lutyens saw films as an outlet for her desire for experimentation, and apparently her movie scores are a lot more imaginative than her concert work, twelve-tone or not. That's interesting, because we hear so much about the constraints of movie music over the more free forms. I'd be really interested in hearing her last film score, a Dutch movie from 1975 called MY NAUGHTY NIGHTS WITH INGRID AND HEIKE AND..., well, I can't remember the title, but it sounds like a porno thing. I have this image in my mind of the respected elderly Mrs. Lutyens toiling away trying to find the hook for that movie.
posted 10-05-2002 09:17 AM PT (US)

James Phillips Muggle	Elisabeth was a strong influence on the young Richard Rodney Bennett during his brief stint at Hammer and work for the British documentary film industry. He credits her and Muir Mathierson as being very helpful in obtaining film commissions.
posted 10-25-2002 08:10 AM PT (US)

Graham Watt Wizard	Right, James. And if Elisabeth Lutyens and Muir Mathieson inspired and helped Richard Rodney Bennett, it was Mathieson himself who got Lutyens her first film commission back in 1944 - JUNGLE MARINERS. I don't know much about Muir Mathieson, but he seems to have been an extremely relevant figure in the history of film music. James, hope you continue to write for FSM. Have enjoyed the Billy Goldenberg and Lalo Schifrin pieces. Looking forward to the Gil Mellé one!
posted 10-25-2002 01:36 PM PT (US)

James Phillips Muggle	Thanks for the vote of confidence. Gil Melle's webmaster asked me if I knew you. I replied only be reputation on the message boards, but you could not be that bad if you are a teacher in Europe. (By the way, I also profiled/interviewed Sir Richard Rodney Bennett in FSM, Vol. 7, #2). Originally posted by Graham Watt: Right, James. And if Elisabeth Lutyens and Muir Mathieson inspired and helped Richard Rodney Bennett, it was Mathieson himself who got Lutyens her first film commission back in 1944 - JUNGLE MARINERS. I don't know much about Muir Mathieson, but he seems to have been an extremely relevant figure in the history of film music. James, hope you continue to write for FSM. Have enjoyed the Billy Goldenberg and Lalo Schifrin pieces. Looking forward to the Gil Mellé one! [Message edited by James Phillips on 10-25-2002] [Message edited by James Phillips on 10-25-2002]
posted 10-25-2002 03:25 PM PT (US)

James Phillips Muggle	[QUOTE]Originally posted by James Phillips: [B]Thanks for the vote of confidence. Gil Melle's webmaster asked me if I knew you. I replied only by reputation on the message boards, but you could not be that bad if you are a teacher in Europe. (By the way, I also profiled/interviewed Sir Richard Rodney Bennett in FSM, Vol. 7, #2). Originally posted by Graham Watt: Right, James. And if Elisabeth Lutyens and Muir Mathieson inspired and helped Richard Rodney Bennett, it was Mathieson himself who got Lutyens her first film commission back in 1944 - JUNGLE MARINERS. I don't know much about Muir Mathieson, but he seems to have been an extremely relevant figure in the history of film music. James, hope you continue to write for FSM. Have enjoyed the Billy Goldenberg and Lalo Schifrin pieces. Looking forward to the Gil Mellé one!
posted 10-25-2002 05:13 PM PT (US)

Guenther Koegebehn Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Graham Watt: Right, James. And if Elisabeth Lutyens and Muir Mathieson inspired and helped Richard Rodney Bennett, it was Mathieson himself who got Lutyens her first film commission back in 1944 - JUNGLE MARINERS. I don't know much about Muir Mathieson, but he seems to have been an extremely relevant figure in the history of film music. James, hope you continue to write for FSM. Have enjoyed the Billy Goldenberg and Lalo Schifrin pieces. Looking forward to the Gil Mellé one! Graham have you seen JUNGLE MARINERS? Regarding Muir M.: He had approx. the same position at RANK that Al Newman had at Fox. He got several big names into film scoring (RVW, Bax) and was a very competent manager. As person and as conductor he left apparently much to be desired. G.
posted 10-27-2002 01:47 PM PT (US)

Graham Watt Wizard	Guenther, no, I haven't seen JUNGLE MARINERS. I don't even know what it is. Can't find any info on it. Maybe it was a documentary? I got that info about Muir Mathieson getting Elisabeth Lutyens the job on MARINERS from Randall Larson's book about the Hammer scores. Did Muir Mathieson really leave a lot to be desired as a conductor? I thought he was highly esteemed in that respect. As a person, I don't know. I seem to recall reading that he was a grumpy old Scotsman, but so am I. Doesn't mean to say you're a bad person!
posted 10-27-2002 02:05 PM PT (US)

Guenther Koegebehn Wizard	quote: Originally posted by Graham Watt: Guenther, no, I haven't seen JUNGLE MARINERS. I don't even know what it is. Can't find any info on it. Maybe it was a documentary? I got that info about Muir Mathieson getting Elisabeth Lutyens the job on MARINERS from Randall Larson's book about the Hammer scores. Did Muir Mathieson really leave a lot to be desired as a conductor? I thought he was highly esteemed in that respect. As a person, I don't know. I seem to recall reading that he was a grumpy old Scotsman, but so am I. Doesn't mean to say you're a bad person! JUNGLE MARINERS was an old Crown Film documentary. Would be interesting to know if she used some serial techniques in it. I suppose she did, but who can confirm it. For example (there are worse) Muir Mathieson didn't like foreigners or women scoring (British) film as he felt they were generally unsuited for it. Ernest Irving (of Ealing) of course always hired frenchmen Georges Auric for Ealing films. This stopped after Irving's death when Dock (brother of Muir) Mathieson took over the post at Ealing. Furthermore I always felt that the scores not conducted by Mathieson but by the composer or John Hollingsworth were much superior. G.
posted 10-27-2002 02:38 PM PT (US)

Graham Watt Wizard	Very interesting, Guenther. But it leads one to ask: if Mathieson didn't like the idea of women scoring films, why did he hire Elisabeth Lutyens in the first place? Regarding his capacity as a conductor, I've just checked his credits on the Database. I thought he did Herrmann's NORTH BY NORTHWEST, but that's not mentioned. VERTIGO is. Did he do a bad job there? Many of the other scores he conducted, like Clifton Parker's brilliant NIGHT OF THE DEMON and James Bernard's WINDOM'S WAY have never seen the light of day as an original soundtrack release, so it's impossible (for me at least) to evaluate his contribution as a stand-alone experience. Oh, I see Muir Mathieson was born in Stirling, Scotland. Brilliant place! I spent four years of my life at the university there, drinking beer on taxpayer's money when I should have been studying.
posted 10-27-2002 03:04 PM PT (US)

Guenther Koegebehn Wizard	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Graham Watt: Very interesting, Guenther. But it leads one to ask: if Mathieson didn't like the idea of women scoring films, why did he hire Elisabeth Lutyens in the first place? <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> Good question. In the early days she was just hired for documentaries. It needed John Hollingsworth to get a her full score job at Hammer. After Hollingsworth far too early death Phil Martell took over, BTW <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>I spent four years of my life at the university there, drinking beer on taxpayer's money when I should have been studying.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> I think I need to pay Sterling (I think the place named Sterling Silver) a visit. [Message edited by Guenther Koegebehn on 10-28-2002]
posted 10-28-2002 03:34 PM PT (US)

SirT Muggle	Bonjour everybody! For some reason this great thread prompted to my mind the name of another Hammer regular, Don Banks whose work - at least what I have heard of it - I have found quite impressive. Since, you are such a knowledgable person Graham maybe you could start a discussion about him and offer us your usually enlightning comments. Incidentally, THE SKULL is currently shown on cable TV here in France. I've only caught glimpses of it so far, but the score seems to make up for Freddie Francis' heavy-handed direction.
posted 10-29-2002 01:50 AM PT (US)

Graham Watt Wizard	Right, Sir T. I like Don Banks too! I'll try to get some thoughts down about him before too long. Keep watching! I thought Freddie Francis did a good job on THE SKULL, though I haven't seen it in a while. He certainly could be accused, in general, of lacking imagination as a director (but not as a director of photography), yet THE SKULL has some nice ironic touches (the final scene shot from behind the skull's eye sockets, as the police speculate on Peter Cushing's grisly death - "What do you think? Witchcraft?" "Hardly. Not in this day and age." - as Elisabeth Lutyens cues up with a dryly unnerving end title. Great GREAT score.
posted 10-31-2002 03:17 PM PT (US)

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