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North by Northwest: CD vs. DVD sound quality

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Author	Topic: North by Northwest: CD vs. DVD sound quality

jonathan_little Goldmember	Yesterday I picked up the fantastic DVD of North by Northwest (along with the brand new awesome restoration of Singin' in the Rain.) I hadn't seen North by Northwest before, and now I understand why it is considered to be one of the best films of all time. Many of you are probably aware that the DVD not only contains an amazing video transfer and a 5.1 sound remix of the film, it also contains Bernard Herrmann's great score isolated in Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround. I was always under the impression that the restoration done by Rhino in 1995 for CD presented the film score with the best sound possible obtained from the tapes which were 36 years old at the time. I accepted that the tapes had aged badly and was quite happy with the disc until I heard the DVD. The liner notes from the soundtrack note that the reel containing my favorite cues of the score (Overture, Wild Ride, and others) was the most damaged and the problems with it are quite obvious while listening to the CD. Besides the general muddy sound quality, there are also some dropouts, most noticeably in the left channel during the end of the Overture. From the liner notes: "[T]hese tapes were carefully guided through their one available 'pass' to the digital format... [T]he fidelity of these music tracks has been reinstated to the best possible sound." Five years after the CD release came the DVD. Between 1995 and 2000 there was either an amazing advancement in audio restoration and repair or somebody found some tapes that were in much better condition. We're not talking about a slight improvement in timbre here, instead the DVD's soundtrack contains a very noticable sonic improvement over the Rhino CD. The dropouts during the Overture? Almost totally gone. The sound of the whole orchestra, especially the percussion section, has a much cleaner sound. The recording is still over four decades old and has some minor issues that I can easily accept for a recording its age. Ironically, it sounds as if the CD soundtrack was used as the source of the music contained in the 30+ minute "making of" documentary produced in March 2000 for the DVD. I love the score, but I'm very disappointed that the CD's sound quality doesn't hold up to the isolated score on the DVD.
posted 09-27-2002 08:28 PM PT (US)

JJH Goldmember	and that's why I never got around to getting the soundtrack CD. that is probably the best DVD I own. the print is utterly amazing, and the music is powerful. When I get a new computer, I need to dub this thing onto CDR. NP - The Four Feathers, Horner
posted 09-27-2002 09:52 PM PT (US)

Guenther Koegebehn Goldmember	quote: Originally posted by jonathan_little: Five years after the CD release came the DVD. Between 1995 and 2000 there was either an amazing advancement in audio restoration and repair or somebody found some tapes that were in much better condition. New restoration techniques, if I remember right.
posted 09-28-2002 05:08 AM PT (US)

Gae Goldmember	The North by Northwest transfer on the DVD is indeed stunning. I know, because I project it onto a 6ft screen and it is comparable, if not better in quality, with new DVD releases. The isolated score is also as mentioned a better quality recording than the CD release which I also have. Does the classic movie North by Northwest deserve any less? Gae
posted 09-28-2002 05:50 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Goldmember	Great movie (one of my favourites), great score. And yes, the DVD iso score sounds a lot better - the only problem is that because of this, I never played my original CD ever since, and I've been too lazy to put the iso score on CDR or to listen to the complete iso score (with pauses).
posted 09-29-2002 07:28 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Goldmember	The problem is the isolated cues are edited and several cues were originally cut or not used in the film at all. The SFX/Dialogue/music tracks cut for the film were probably in better condition than the score masters Rhino used for the CD release were. I dunno but that's what I'm guessing. While I doubt they would re-re-master the CD it would be a nice project for Varese, Joel McNeely and the RSNO to record. [Message edited by Mark Olivarez on 09-30-2002]
posted 09-30-2002 10:51 AM PT (US)

jonathan_little Goldmember	quote: Originally posted by Mark Olivarez: ...it would be a nice project for Varese, Joel McNeely and the RSNO to record. I'd buy that.
posted 09-30-2002 02:38 PM PT (US)

Ed Goldmember	Don't pass over that flawed Rhino CD...there's at least one cue (The Matchbook? - not sure) near the end of the film that is NOT on the DVD due to a mastering error. Also, I've heard from several sources that the tapes used for the DVD were recently-found multi-track archival dupes that somehow escaped the "vinegar syndrome" that ruined some of the original masters.
posted 10-01-2002 12:10 PM PT (US)

Ed Goldmember	By the way, a similar thing happened with Rhino's exceptional SUPERMAN release. Matessino and Co. at Sharpline Arts put a great deal of time and creative effort into reconstructing the cues for that album from edited music stems (with fantastic results, I might add), and when the DVD restoration got the green light from Warners the original, uncut music masters were finally located and shipped to Warners vaults from...wherever they had been for twenty years.
posted 10-01-2002 12:26 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Goldmember	Ed, thanks for clearing that up. I thought I remembered hearing that about Superman as well, but I don't own the DVD to compare the two. I hope the difference of the Superman tracks isn't as drastic as the ones were for North by Northwest.
posted 10-01-2002 01:23 PM PT (US)

Spicy Ramen Goldmember	Sound quality on DVD will always be better than what you get on cd. For one you have a sound mastering facility that the studios use to restore the score to the disc. These resources are simply not available to smaller distrubutors.
posted 10-01-2002 03:09 PM PT (US)

SEBULBA Goldmember	Hey Ed, I have both the Supeman dvd and Rhino release. What's on the dvd's that's not on the cd release? Anything worth noting and ripping?
posted 10-01-2002 03:12 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Goldmember	quote: Originally posted by Spicy Ramen: Sound quality on DVD will always be better than what you get on cd. For one you have a sound mastering facility that the studios use to restore the score to the disc. These resources are simply not available to smaller distrubutors. But Sony and many other companies that release soundtrack CDs are not small distributors. And DVD iso scores are typically compressed (DD). The Matrix iso score sounds a lot worse than the official album. NP: Ravel: Bolero (M�nchner Philharmoniker, Celibidache)
posted 10-01-2002 03:55 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Goldmember	quote: Originally posted by Spicy Ramen: Sound quality on DVD will always be better than what you get on cd. For one you have a sound mastering facility that the studios use to restore the score to the disc. These resources are simply not available to smaller distrubutors. Well, I think most people would argue that Turner/Rhino is not a "smaller distributor." The difference in sound of the North By Northwest DVD and CD are far from subtle differences. Somebody goofed up.
posted 10-01-2002 07:15 PM PT (US)

Guenther Koegebehn Goldmember	<QUOTE>Originally posted by jonathan_little: Somebody goofed up.</QUOTE> Looked it up: 1. It's the same source 2. Quote: "...the music tracks for North by Northwest were restored at Chace Productions using a new process - they should sound better than the Rhino with better fidelity and far less wear ... Rhino left out the middle channel of the three channel mag. This will also be fixed on the new DVD..." [Message edited by Guenther Koegebehn on 10-02-2002] [Message edited by Guenther Koegebehn on 10-02-2002]
posted 10-02-2002 12:53 AM PT (US)

jonathan_little Goldmember	Thank you, thank you!
posted 10-02-2002 09:42 AM PT (US)

Ed Goldmember	quote: Originally posted by SEBULBA: Hey Ed, I have both the Supeman dvd and Rhino release. What's on the dvd's that's not on the cd release? Anything worth noting and ripping? Nothing I can think of. Cheers.
posted 10-02-2002 12:41 PM PT (US)

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