quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Street:

...Don't buy the Varese Club issues. Don't buy Intrada's Special Collection. Don't buy Prometheus' Club discs. ...Don't buy the Limited Editions from Numenorean.

...

And what do you mean by "stealing"?

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You're confusing legitimate releases with promos, which are "not licensed for sale." I wasn't arguing against the $20 price on these non-promo limited releases (though I'd rather see more $10 budget releases these days instead of $20 stuff.) I own quite a few FSM releases and I'm very satisfied with their product.

What I mean by stealing:

1. If an AFM orchestra recorded the music to Presidio, they're allowed re-use fees on their recordings until a specific amount of time passes after the date of the recording (about 20 years, I believe.)
   
2. Paramount, the owner of this music, is notably against score releases for whatever idiotic reason they have, unless it has Star Trek in the title. To get beyond their legal department, these discs are produced as "for promotional use only, not licensed for sale." Yet they're still sold in soundtrack outlets and the general film score population doesn't seem to care. Paramount gets paid nothing for the use of the music that they own.

Roger

quote:

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Originally posted by jonathan_little:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Richard Street:
[b]
...Don't buy the Varese Club issues. Don't buy Intrada's Special Collection. Don't buy Prometheus' Club discs. ...Don't buy the Limited Editions from Numenorean.

...

And what do you mean by "stealing"?
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're confusing legitimate releases with promos, which are "not licensed for sale." I wasn't arguing against the $20 price on these non-promo limited releases (though I'd rather see more $10 budget releases these days instead of $20 stuff.) I own quite a few FSM releases and I'm very satisfied with their product.

What I mean by stealing:

1. If an AFM orchestra recorded the music to Presidio, they're allowed re-use fees on their recordings until a specific amount of time passes after the date of the recording (about 20 years, I believe.)
   
2. Paramount, the owner of this music, is notably against score releases for whatever idiotic reason they have, unless it has Star Trek in the title. To get beyond their legal department, these discs are produced as "for promotional use only, not licensed for sale." Yet they're still sold in soundtrack outlets and the general film score population doesn't seem to care. Paramount gets paid nothing for the use of the music that they own.

Please note that I am a fanboy, not a soundtrack producer or label. I feel $20 is an unreasonable price since lets hypothetically say we did a run of 1,000 of a score and that the composer received half of the run. That leaves 500 copies which were sold at $20 apiece, bringing in $10,000. And some argue that the label is supposedly "losing money" by doing this. This means that each CD cost over $10 to press? I understand that there are costs for mastering, printing liner notes, art direction, raw materials, and the fact that the bank charges you $.10 for each check you write to pay for those previous things, but how could this amount to $10 or more per CD for a run of 1,000? I've found prices on the web that run about $1,000 for replicating about 1,000 CDs.[/B]

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This is all subjective and can't say I am all that familiar with the business side of this all. That said, I'd like to see the whole limited edition banner lifted and all scores with limited appeal pressed in small numbers, with the the possibility to re-press them when and if the album sells out.

This assumes that the studios and labels want this though. I don't know about the labels (I'd like to think they do) but the studios' actions of past makes this not very likely...

if anything, it's the other way around.

Varese, I understand presses 20,000 (!) units for each regular release title. A specific example I know of is Jeff Danna's Green Dragon, which probably hasn't even sold 200 units -- but that may go up since the film's on DVD now.

Anyway, it's more out of hand than most people want to realize. That said, this is based on my own opinion...

The reason that this is done is to lower the reuse fees make a release viable. For example, take Omega Man (These numbers are just estimates, I don’t know the actual ones. Anyone with better knowledge should post to clear things up).

If you buy Omega Man in Blocks of 15 minutes (The usual way for a general release) at, say 25,000 dollars per block (This number changes based on the number of players in the orchestra. Fewer players lowers the cost more players, plus a choir raise the cost), it would cost 75,000 just to pay AFM and the studio. This would not include any legal fees that might be generated to secure the rights or due diligence. It also doesn’t include actual production costs or the amount paid to the writers for any liner notes or graphic processing. Let’s not forget mixing and audio restoration. Let’s say that all the extras end up costing about 15,000. So the total cost for a general release comes in at about $90,000.

If FSM paid this, they could press as many as they wanted, for as long as they wanted. They could sell the rights to another label press more if they wanted. Assuming a wholesale price of 10.00 (This is probably too high, 5.00 is probably closer), to break even they would have to sell 9000 copies.

It seems FSM could only lose money. Of course, you could buy less music and lower the reuse fees (Varese does this) but then people complain about lack of completeness and how the best cues are missing. Besides, you want to create a definitive edition that will please score collectors and fans of the movie.

In pursuing a Limited Release, you are agreeing to handle the music in very specific manner. You agree to purchase the rights to produce a limited number of CDs. The actual amount can vary based on how much you pay, but in general 3000 seems to be the preferred number. You are paying drastically reduced re-use fees. Each deal must be negotiated separately with each releasing studio. You can only use this method if a score is over a certain age, 25 years I think.

You may only pay 20,000 to secure the rights to Omega Man. The production amount doesn’t change much, so the entire expense is around 35000 to produce 3000 CDs. If FSM sells 1750 of its run it will break even. This is a much smaller nut to crack than 9000. (I would point out that very few releases have sold out the 3000 copy runs. Even at a lower price, I don’t think these titles could sell 9-10000 copies)

If FSM sells out, as in the case of Omega Man, then if they want to print more they have to back to the studio and purchase the reuse rights, the full reuse rights, outright in the same way as a general release.

It seems to me that if only a general release will do than many older scores that are unlikely to sell 10000 units will never be released or released in truncated forms. A limited release allows these scores who could never sell enough units to break even or make money to be released to the fans and collectors who provide the core of those interested in score releases for older films (Older being 10 years or more).

Out of hand? Absolutely not!

Basically, my whole line of thinking is, it is out of hand considering that many viable releases still don't get out commercially because of the lack of appreciation of film music. Re-use fees notwithstanding...