-
Message Boards

Movie Soundtracks
Rosenthal's CLASH of the TITANS
Archive of old forum. No more postings.
Please visit our new forum, The MovieMusic Lobby, to post new topics.
Author
Topic: Rosenthal's CLASH of the TITANS

JohnnyK

Minimember

The arrival this past weekend of Harryhausen’s marvelous Clash of the Titans DVD has set indelibly in my mind, once again, the remarkable contribution given the film by composer Laurence Rosenthal. Unlike previous Harryhausen movies, his swan song opus purposely took on a more romantic, melodic score in the vein of Richard Strauss (the model suggested to Rosenthal, and whose music was used for the temp track).The significance of the Rosenthal score lies in the fact that, like Herrmann, Rozsa, Goldsmith, Newman, the music is the creation of a man grounded firmly in music theory, discipline and history. He has knowledge of not just notes, keys and time signatures, but origins, modes, familiarity with the lives and passions of composers past, upon whose legacy all music still rests. So much of what passes for film music in recent years reflects the lack of discipline, the mere arrangement of chords and cue episodes without thematic unity, without any attempt to underpin the images on the screen save to envelope them in some fabric of sound design. Ex-rockers and Wagner wannabes composing in committee, whose scores resemble the stuff more aptly suited to cartoon musical highjinks, claim false heritage when they lump themselves among the men of the Golden and Silver Age of film composition. Rosenthal, and musicians like him, create fully half a film’s worth, or impact, with a contribution essential to the story unfolding for the viewer. Media Ventures types are backup bands. It is important to remember just how profound a score by someone like Waxman can get, compared to the humming and strumming of the music technicians now developing in the age of Bruckheimer.
If ever a movie score deserved a complete release, so that one might study the progression of themes, how they grow one out of the other, evolving and augmented through parallel key or harmonics or polyphony, concepts beyond the guitar-trained chord arrangers, it is Rosenthal’s Clash of the Titans. A case in point is the “sinister” theme that haunts the film, starting with the crime of King Acrisius, a theme developed then related to the Perseus/Andromeda romance which eventually conquers all, to be set in the stars forever as a sign of hope. The theme is heard under the goddesses discussing the conceits of Zeus just before the Kraken’s destruction of Argos, as Zeus toys with his replicas of mortals. Also, when the vulture is dispatched by Calibos to collect the spirit of Andromeda. This theme is woven and developed throughout the movie until the climax, where its apotheosis into the love theme is finally triumphant. Here is compositional skill equal to the great 19th Century masters, a talent beyond the capability of the untrained, unappreciative, unknowledgable.
Thus, closer attention paid to Rosenthal’s music for this wonderful movie is instructive on so many levels. Among film composers he is himself a Titan. And again I can only hope that a complete Special Edition of the score will one day appear for all of us to enjoy...as Zeus would say of his stars: “Forever!”
www.conversations.org/rosenthal.htmposted 08-07-2002 01:06 PM PT (US) 
TV's Frank

Goldmember

All I can say JohnnyK is, HEAR HEAR!!
This is one of the seminal scores of my youth and while I treasure what we have on album from Pendulum (the 47-minute version), you are correct in noting it deserves a complete release. It is marvelous the way Rosenthal develops his themes and motifs and every cue serves a wonderful purpose in its accompanying scene. It certainly would teach a lesson to new composers how one can write in the mold of the classical masters and yet retain your own style and personality.
posted 08-07-2002 02:41 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Goldmember

Not that I don't agree with you--but there's no reason to aggrandize one composer by belittling others. It's a wide world.
posted 08-07-2002 04:07 PM PT (US) 
Swashbuckler

Goldmember

I watched this DVD last night and was taken by how sophisticated many of the cues that do not appear on the Prometheus release are... I'm glad to have "Argos Destroyed," "Andromeda" and "River Styx" on CD, but I would love to hear more of the score. Much of the rest of it sounds like the "Dreams and Omens" track, which is one of my favorites on the album.It is surprising that Rosenthal didn't get more work from this score.
posted 08-19-2002 07:16 PM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Goldmember

The reason that this film didn't get more work for Laurence Rosenthal is because the movie didn't do incredibly well. I don't think very many people actually saw it at the theater. (When I went the theater was mostly empty)Besides, the "star" of this movie was Ray Harryhausen stop motion special effects. He did the film to show that there was still a place for this kind of effect film in a post Star Wars Hollywood. Unfortunately, the expense of stop motion animation and the hash of Greek mythology that he served up proved him wrong.
One can only wonder what he thinks of all the CGI critters that would have been stop motion 30 years ago.
I also recommend The Young Indiana Jones CDs. Some of the best music scored for television in the 90's.
posted 08-20-2002 08:26 AM PT (US) 
firefox
Minimember

Harryhausen loves some of the CGI work being done today. He doesn't like the CGI work that isn't done well. He's open-minded and recognizes creativity whether it's in literature, music, sculpture, film, or any of the other arts. Personally, I'd rather watch stop-motion than CGI any day. The human element makes it more "magical." There are times when you need "magic" in the film rather than a slick attempt at realism.
posted 08-24-2002 05:45 PM PT (US) 
monkey

Goldmember

And don`t forget that most of the best scores for YIJ Jr. were done by McNeely. I mean, give the man a break....Lover`s prayer is possibly one of the best scores I`ve heard this century.
Very classical sounding, but touching and original....
posted 08-24-2002 07:09 PM PT (US) 
Chris Kinsinger

Goldmember

"the movie didn't do incredibly well. I don't think very many people actually saw it at the theater."While Clash Of The Titans didn't perform as well at the boxoffice as its rival Raiders Of The Lost Ark (opening the same day), Clash was a huge boxoffice success for M-G-M that year, and Harryhausen himself earned millions, insuring that his retirement would be quite comfortable.
In my estimation, Clash Of The Titans features the best and the worst of Harryhausen in the same picture!
But...it DID make a lot of money.
"He did the film to show that there was still a place for this kind of effect film in a post Star Wars Hollywood."
Excuse me...but Star Wars (1977) was released at the very same time as Harryhausen's Sinbad And The Eye Of The Tiger. By that time, Harryhausen was already well into production of his next project, Clash Of The Titans.
He wasn't trying to prove anything...he was simply producing another film as usual.[Message edited by Chris Kinsinger on 08-24-2002]
posted 08-24-2002 09:24 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Goldmember

quote:
In my estimation, Clash Of The Titans features the best and the worst of Harryhausen in the same picture!Yeah, but isn't that true of every Harryhausen picture?
posted 08-24-2002 10:10 PM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Goldmember

Chris,Excuse me, I am not saying you don't have the straight skinny, but what do you base your claim of financial success on?
IMDB only lists the budget at 15 million. What is your source for the revenue of this picture? My evidence is mostly anecdotal so I would love to have a more firm source either way.
As for pre-production I suppose it could have started as early as 1977 but that would mean that it took about 4 years to get from preproduction to screen. That’s a pretty long lead time for a picture like this. If it did take that long, or longer, I have to wonder if this was indeed the last gasp of stop motion effects. Outside of The Nightmare before Christmas, I can’t think of any other films that made major use of this technique since Clash. If the picture was successful how come he never made any after it?
Let me say one thing. I do like this picture, I just feel that it was a final effort by a master in field who discovered that time has passed him by. I definitely feel a lack of vibrancy and presence in COTT that was clearly present in Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger and First Men in the Moon.
Monkey:
Indeed. McNeely certainly deserves credit for YIJ. That aside, you can certainly tell the difference between McNealy and Rosenthal on the discs, especially after you spin Titans.
[Message edited by MWRuger on 08-25-2002]
posted 08-24-2002 10:33 PM PT (US) 
SBD
Goldmember

The story of me and this film dates back to about 1998 when I checked out (quite frequently over the next year or so) a Telarc fantasy compilation which featured a suite of Rosenthal's "Clash of the Titans" score. I fell in like with it. But yesterday, when I saw the film for the first time on Sci-Fi, like quickly turned into love. I hope to pick up the expanded version of the score one day on eBay. The film was pretty entertaining. Not quite "Raiders of the Lost Ark" (they really opened on the same day?), but still enjoyable. This may be the ignorant young man in me talking, but the visual effects were pretty uneven. The rendering of Medusa was terrific, but other elements, like the two-headed dog, were pretty hokey.
posted 08-25-2002 02:43 PM PT (US) 
Dylan

Goldmember

-------Excuse me, I am not saying you don't have the straight skinny, but what do you base your claim of financial success on?IMDB only lists the budget at 15 million. What is your source for the revenue of this picture? My evidence is mostly anecdotal so I would love to have a more firm source either way.-------
Chris is absolutely correct. Like myself, he is a big Harryhausen fan and he probably read this information from articles or books on Ray and Clash of the Titans. One source for this information on it's box office: the magazine Cinefantastique. The 1999 Double Issue was completely dedicated to stop-motion animation, and in an article about Harryhausen's career from 1971-81, it states that Clash of the Titans made a lot of money, but it didn't make $200 Million like the other 'blockbusters' it was surrounded by. It does state that it generated many bad reviews though...too bad films these days like Spy Kids 2 and Harry Potter get away with so much awful effects and lazy scripts and yet they make big money and generate a immense amount of critical praise. Too bad the advent of CGI has caused so many films to go under. The creatures from Spy Kids 2 are truly ridiculous and awful (the designs are good, but the execution is so poor...these creatures were not meant to be brought to life by the means of CGI...but they're using it because everyone else is...HEAVEN FORBID THEY USE STOP-MOTION TO HOMAGE HARRYHAUSEN) and I can't believe people are calling the Spy Kids CGI cutting edge. Makes me sick.
[Message edited by Dylan on 08-25-2002]
posted 08-25-2002 04:43 PM PT (US) 
SPQR

Goldmember

Caught in on DVD last night (perhaps the first time in almost 20 years I've seen the entire film) and found myself pleasantly surprised by its graceful pacing, enchanting performances (Harry Hamlin in a loin cloth...yum) and succinct but eloquant screenplay (an unlikely combination in a fantasy film). The film has a delightful 'innoncence' about it, but because of the archaic visual effects, one is obliged to suspend alot of disbelief. Laurence Rosenthal's score is impeccably wrought and more than deserving of a full release.-side note-
Surely, this is the only film in which a well recognized actress, Ursula Andress, receives star billing and yet only has one line of dialogue. Absurd as it may seem, I'd be interested to see the Olympus scenes left on the cutting room floor.
And I do adore Maggie Smith when she's bitchy.
posted 09-05-2002 11:50 AM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
