Horner: Well, I'm influenced by a lot of people. A lot of people say that they hear Jerry Goldsmith but that's only because they know Jerry Goldsmith's music. I mean, other people think they hear Debussy's music or Mahler's music or Strauss's music or Beethoven, it just depends on who one talks to. I'm still fairly young, which is not an excuse, but one is influenced by the music of people that one respects. I respect Jerry Goldsmith very much. I hope my music isn't too similar.

Sometimes, of course, when a film has budget problems and the producers are taking a chance on me, and the music budget is $200,000 and they say to me they want such-and-such a score, and I say, "well, that score's been done, let me give you something different," they say, "give us something different on our next film. This is the kind of score we want for this one!" That is very often what one is up against, where a producer or a director has seen the movie and temp-tracked it with somebody's else's music, has fallen in love with that score, and says, "this is what we want," period. And you try and fight against that a little bit, but sometimes you can't. I've been told very amazing things where they say, "we want exactly that kind of score, we want that exact kind of a cue - just put it in your own language, but that's exactly what kind of cue we want." And I tell them, "I can't do that." I've had various situations along those lines, but as far as my music sounding like anybody else's, hopefully my own voice will develop as I write.

But one is always influenced by people one respects, and I'm very influenced by quite a few classical composers and admire their work very much, so people always think they can pigeon-hole my music by saying, well it's this or that. Most of the films I've done are, in fact, adventure, horror, or whatever, and those are the kinds of films Goldsmith does. He very rarely now does sensitive films. In my television scores I'm given a much more free reign. They're not horror pictures, they're usually very sensitive, quiet things, and I have maybe guitar and strings or something like that, and they're very different.

Obviously, if you were a producer, or, in your case, if you're the editor of this magazne and you're having someone do an article, you would want to supervise how the article was to be written and you would want to assume control over it for the first few efforts - it's the same kind of thing. When you have a $15 million film, and you have a $250,000 music budget and this person comes in and he's 28 years old, as I am, and he says "I want to do your score," the producers look at me and they say "come on, kid, the only person who can write this kind of music is John Williams," so you have to convince them that, yes, there are other people who can write large symphonic music, or sensitive music, or whatever. But they're still very nervous and I don't blame them. These are very weird times for Hollywood, things like ANNIE which cost over $60 million and will take a while to recoup.

Your opinion?

Best Wishes

Philipp

np: untamed (franz waxman, fsm)

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Originally posted by Philipp:
Sometimes, of course, when a film has budget problems and the producers are taking a chance on me, and the music budget is $200,000 and they say to me they want such-and-such a score, and I say, "well, that score's been done, let me give you something different," they say, "give us something different on our next film. This is the kind of score we want for this one!" That is very often what one is up against, where a producer or a director has seen the movie and temp-tracked it with somebody's else's music, has fallen in love with that score, and says, "this is what we want," period. And you try and fight against that a little bit, but sometimes you can't. I've been told very amazing things where they say, "we want exactly that kind of score, we want that exact kind of a cue - just put it in your own language, but that's exactly what kind of cue we want." And I tell them, "I can't do that."

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I guess Horner gets told that on every film he works on.

Horner: Well, I'm influenced by a lot of people.
HA! Like we didn't find out on our own.

but as far as my music sounding like anybody else's, hopefully my own voice will develop as I write.
MWAHAHAHA!

But one is always influenced by people one respects, and I'm very influenced by quite a few classical composers and admire their work very much, so people always think they can pigeon-hole my music by saying, well it's this or that.

I think I understand Horner a little better now and my respect for him has just increased.

I've been listening to orchestral music of all sorts for many years. I compose orchestral music, and conduct a 75 piece orchestra, and you tell me that there is nothing of Horner that you can hear that are his own style?

How many of you think that they'll ever be asked to score a film?

You think you'll be able to earn a million dollar for scoring a movie?

Lets not make sour grapes attitude until you can do half of what Horner has accomplished.

Perhaps he is not Williams, nor Goldsmith, etc, but there music that he had written that I am still impressed, and consider decently original. 2 songs he composed that we hear on the radio all the time, Somewhere Out There, My Heart Will Go On, well, inspite of my great love for Williams and Goldsmith, and other composers, none of them have made it to the radio the way Horner had. I mean, even little children know the song to Somewhere Out There. How many songs you think little children can sing of Williams', Goldsmiths', Elfman, Zimmer, etc?

So, for all of you to exaggerate grossly as to Horner's inability to write something original has other problems that are much deeper than it appears.

Perhaps it's jealousy that you're not earning as much as he is????

Or perhaps your name is not on the big screen and soundtrack CDs being released?

Give him a break!

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Originally posted by Skymaker:
What is it with you guys? Perhaps Horner can be derivative, but to say he has nothing of his own, well perhaps you guys aren't able to identify a style when you hear one...

Perhaps he is not Williams, nor Goldsmith, etc, but there music that he had written that I am still impressed, and consider decently original. 2 songs he composed that we hear on the radio all the time, Somewhere Out There, My Heart Will Go On, well, inspite of my great love for Williams and Goldsmith, and other composers, none of them have made it to the radio the way Horner had. I mean, even little children know the song to Somewhere Out There. How many songs you think little children can sing of Williams', Goldsmiths', Elfman, Zimmer, etc?

[Message edited by Skymaker on 07-11-2002]

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I second that. But I think they are refering to the Horner of late. Many of his recent scores have less original material. His music is not packing the same punch that it used to.

Nevertheless, Horner has composed some of my favorite scores and most memorable pieces. In my opinion, a composer should be judged by the body of work that he completed in his career, not just by what he is putting out at the current date. Many can even argue that John Williams isn't writing original music like he used to, but that doesn't stop them from buying his work and giving their respect.

Since I am a relatively newcomer to the world of filmmusic, maybe I am missing something, but this is what I believe.

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Originally posted by Skymaker:

Perhaps he is not Williams, nor Goldsmith, etc, but there music that he had written that I am still impressed, and consider decently original. 2 songs he composed that we hear on the radio all the time, Somewhere Out There, My Heart Will Go On, well, inspite of my great love for Williams and Goldsmith, and other composers, none of them have made it to the radio the way Horner had. I mean, even little children know the song to Somewhere Out There. How many songs you think little children can sing of Williams', Goldsmiths', Elfman, Zimmer, etc?

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Zimmer composed the songs in Prince of Egypt which IMHO, is way better than those you listed above. Zimmer songs actually incorporate the theme of the movie into the song (i.e. Hebrew children singing). Horner flat out makes an outright pop tune that has no soul.

the man has ZERO professional reputation left as a composer, except maybe he's a great conductor.

the people that play on his scores have no doubt listened to and played more music than any one fan on these boards, and they can spot a hack a mile away. Horner is undoubtedly one of the better craftsmen, but he is so shameless in his unoriginality.

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Originally posted by Ace:
I second that. But I think they are refering to the Horner of late. Many of his recent scores have less original material. His music is not packing the same punch that it used to.

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Originally posted by Dinko:
I hear Britney Spears more often than Horner. That doesn't make Max Martin and Andreas Carlsson good composers.

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You have a point. But Britney can sing any song, whether good or not, and she'll have a huge following buying her records. Britney, N'Sync, eminem, they're popular because of the times, and the icon, not the music.

In real life, some really talented people make no money in music, and some very untalented people are earning millions. If you think Horner is one of those untalented and incapable people, then perhaps we've all been duped. But as for me, I think there is some subtance that he is capable at least to some degree. And there are scores he composed that I consider to be quite good.

What's really funny to me is that, those who complain so much about Horner keep on listening to his music and keep on complaining. I mean, I hate most of Schoenberg, Berg, Boulez' stuff, but I don't listen to them anymore and complain how bad their music are. I just leave them alone, never buy them, and stop my attitude about it. Otherwise, don't you guys find it tiring to have to keep on complaining about something that Horner don't even care about anymore? After all, he is laughing all the way to the bank.

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Originally posted by Dinko:

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I am such and idiot (don't bother to repeat what I just said ). I completely forgot that this was form a long time ago. Sorry. However. I still enjoy Horner scores (new and old), regardless of how original they are. But I must admit, it does get annoying at times.

Ace

NP-American Journey

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Originally posted by SkyMakers:
If you think Horner is one of those untalented and incapable people, then perhaps we've all been duped.

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No, I think the opposite. I think Horner is one of the most talented composers out there. What I am annoyed at, is how lazy he can get, when he has so much potential.

What's really funny to me is that, those who complain so much about Horner keep on listening to his music and keep on complaining.

Sure, because deep down, many of us naively hope that at some point he'll drop all his "influences" and provide something great and original (ie. not containing music from any of his previous movies, or music obviously taken from another composer), as he has done on many occasions.

Otherwise, don't you guys find it tiring to have to keep on complaining about something that Horner don't even care about anymore?

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Originally posted by nightwing:
Actually I was just wondering what exactly of Goldsmith's music that people hear in Horner's. I don't really hear much similarity. Anyone help me out?

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Listen to BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS. He even used the blaster beam!!

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Originally posted by Graham Watt:
I'm almost sure that the Horner-scored monster/tit-fest HUMANOIDS FROM THE DEEP used music tracked in from Goldsmith's THE SWARM.

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It wasn't tracked. It was just another Horner's usual "copy and paste" job. What a shame!