A few months ago I hauled home the video King of Kings to reacquaint myself with
Rozsa’ s lovely music, and it opened with an overture. Today, I brought home The Alamo
because I only remember Tiomkin’s Green Leaves of Summer theme and wanted to see
what else he composed. And it too opened with all of the great thematic melodies in its
overture. I’d forgotten that this USED to be a trend in long, epic movies. (Plus music
during intermissions. North, Rozsa, Bernstein, Tiomkin OR popcorn and Milk Duds. The
composers won over my junk food addiction.)

Overture: considered as time wasting.

They've already moved the main credits from the beginning of the movie to the end. It allows for movies to be shortened even more on TV. And allows audience to see the movie "faster" and leave faster, not having to trouble itself with all those useless artistic people who developped the movie, or be bothered by some orchestral fillermusic noise.

For people who want to squeeze as many movies in one day as they possibly can, overtures are even worse than opening and closing credits.
A 3-minute overture means that much time less for crummy commercials about perfumes I'll never buy, candies I'll never eat, and stupid cars I'll never drive... all of them trying to please a "young audience" with their "cool looking commercials".
(Frankly, those movie-theatre commercials are so bad, that the only thing they can make me do is NOT buy the advertised product.)

The filmmakers knew this wouldn't fly in the States. So they did that canvas stuff at the beginning. I'd rather have the blackness and silence, especially since it was probably meant to convey the character's eventual blindness.

Oh, I got this from the film's DVD. Check it out, it's quite interesting.

When these films moved to a normal distribution months later, the films were often edited for length and the musical interludes were usually removed.

This is one reason why films like SPARTACUS and LAWRENCE OF ARABIA had to be restored...beyond simple age and wear-and-tear, the studios often misplaced the parts of the film that were removed. I remember when THE DIARY OF ANN FRANK was released by Fox on Laserdisc to great fanfare because it presented the film in its longer road show version for the first time on video. And yes, the longer version was better.

In this era of extended director's cuts, I think the road show idea is ripe for a comeback. They could make a mint from an extended "LORD OF THE RINGS" cut, for example, that ran for a few weeks before a wider release...even if they charged more for it.

The DVDs of Cleopatra, Ben-Hur, Doctor Zhivago and Lawrence of Arabia come complete with entrance music or overture, an entr'acte and exit music. I was ready to fast forward them, but I sat in the dark listening to them and was convinced otherwise.

I know that they days of epics are truly over (one only has to endure the physically painful 'Gladiator' to see that) but I would still love to see a film with an intermission. What a pefect time to get out of the cinema, buy some overpriced popcorn, and discuss how bad/good the movie has been so far.

quote:

---

Originally posted by metaphor123:
but I would still love to see a film with an intermission. What a pefect time to get out of the cinema, buy some overpriced popcorn, and discuss how bad/good the movie has been so far.

---

Gods and Generals is supposed to be four hours. There might be an intermission there. Of course, I've heard that due to possible Oscar nominations, they may cut it to a shorter length Oh well, we'll see.

I hate to say it, but I don't think that will ever come back.

Theater owners hate long movies because it reduces the number of shows that they can run in a day. Anything that makes it worse is apt to be dismissed.

Besides, Theater managers don’t want an “Event”. They just want as many people as possible to show up and buy concessions. Most are more interested in the “Herd’em In, Herd’em Out” concept.

Okay, now that my daughters are grown, I'll root for the return of drive ins. Most of you "youngers" have probably never been to one, but they were fun in their day. Lots of entertaining, grade Z horror flicks, and an easy way to smuggle in beer in the trunks.

quote:

---

Originally posted by joan hue:
I'm sorry to say that Overtures will probably not return. It is a musical loss.

Okay, now that my daughters are grown, I'll root for the return of drive ins. Most of you "youngers" have probably never been to one, but they were fun in their day. Lots of entertaining, grade Z horror flicks, and an easy way to smuggle in beer in the trunks.

NP The Flim Flam Man

---

Hey, Mom, I went to the drive-in every weekend when I was younger. We didn't smuggle beer; we smuggled people in the trunk (our drive-in had you pay per person).

quote:

---

Originally posted by HadrianD:
Didn't Moulin Rouge have an overture at the beginning?

---

No - it just had an opening title sequence that "felt" like an overture - but was rather short....

quote:

---

Originally posted by Camillu:
What exactly is the difference between a Main Titles sequence and an overture?

Is it that overtures encompass all the main themes of the film?

---

Traditionally (i.e. "back in the day" an Overture would be a musical piece performed before the film even started to roll. It doesn't necessarily encompass all of the main themes.

BEN-HUR, CLEOPATRA and LAWRENCE OF ARABIA are three examples (at least on DVD) where you can hit "play", stare at a blank screen (or a title graphic) and listen to music for 5 minutes or so before the film even begins.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Camillu:
What exactly is the difference between a Main Titles sequence and an overture?

Is it that overtures encompass all the main themes of the film?

---

An overture is simply a piece of music that is played before the movie begins. Usually,
there is nothing on the screen, except maybe a title card that says "Overture." If the credits are rolling, then it is a main title.

I guess it serves me right for only having watched those movies on TV. I've never come across this 'blank screen' thing.

So I guess the Main Titles are the evolution of the Overture... only now there's something happening (albiet usually nothing important) so that those viewers not interested in the music aren't bored to death.

The Overture simply doesn't fit in with today's theater system or the culture that supports it because there is no time for or interest in such a thing as far as the moviegoer is concerned. That's too bad but I agree with what someone else said. The Overture is dead and it ain't comin' back.

p.s. Speaking of movie palaces we had one of the grandest in my city called the Fox. I saw so many great movies there and it went the overture and entr'acte one better by having a guy play a huge pipe organ which rose from under the floor and back during openings and intermittions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by joan hue:
That's depressing, Dinko. I do think you're on to something when you mention commercials. They are playing more and more at theaters. They start when the movie is suppose to begin.

---

Joan, in the UK there have been 10-15 minutes of commercials (not previwes) before theatrical screenings for at least 20 years! If the newspaper says 7.15pm, then the actual film itself will start somewhere between 7.30pm and 7.35pm.

This is a standard in the UK. In the early eighties, cinema admissions were so low that they relied more on advertising revenue than ticket sales to stay open. All cinemas carry adverts, although you get less in subsidised arts cinemas, and none at festival screenings and places like the National Film Theatre in London.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Camillu:
You learn something every day...

I guess it serves me right for only having watched those movies on TV. I've never come across this 'blank screen' thing.

So I guess the Main Titles are the evolution of the Overture... only now there's something happening (albiet usually nothing important) so that those viewers not interested in the music aren't bored to death.

---

A blank screen with sound has been known to frustrate some TV viewers and panic TV executives.

Often, the music in main titles is just like a musical overture, so adding another overture is not necessarily a good idea.

I too have noticed that, especially since the mid-90s, that the main title HAS to do something. The credits wiggle, writhe, dance, change colors or shape, fade in and out, whirl around the screen, anything to keep us from asking for our money back.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom_B_Stone:

I too have noticed that, especially since the mid-90s, that the main title HAS to do something. The credits wiggle, writhe, dance, change colors or shape, fade in and out, whirl around the screen, anything to keep us from asking for our money back.

---

What do you expect? A million dollar movie with black-on-white Time New Roman main titles?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom_B_Stone:

I too have noticed that, especially since the mid-90s, that the main title HAS to do something. The credits wiggle, writhe, dance, change colors or shape, fade in and out, whirl around the screen, anything to keep us from asking for our money back.

---

Sure, I fondly remember the dazzling main title designs of Saul Bass and Maurice Binder and the cartoony animations of Richard Williams & DePatie/Freleng.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom_B_Stone:
Otherwise, it seems a lot of expensive bother that only adds meaningless razzle-dazzle to the movie.

---