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Author	Topic: Waxman's GONE WITH THE WIND???

OHMSS76 Goldmember	Here's one for the experts out there...I'm reading a book right now called Hollywood Rhapsody, which focuses on our Golden Age composers(it's ok, but a little too much ink is given to musicals, which I have to skip). The book dates from the 90's(I don't have it handy to confirm), and lots of info has come to light since it's writing, so it might be pretty outdated....I'll drag some of the more interesting anecdotes over here when I have the book nearby, but one has been bothering me... The author states that Franz Waxman was commissioned to write an 'insurance score' for GWTW. It goes even further to state this was recorded! I'm sure it's bunk, but thought it would be fun to see what you all think about this, and what a different film GWTW would have been, had Waxman scored it. Sean
posted 06-06-2002 10:23 AM PT (US)

Tom_B_Stone Minimember	quote: Originally posted by OHMSS76: Here's one for the experts out there...I'm reading a book right now called Hollywood Rhapsody, which focuses on our Golden Age composers(it's ok, but a little too much ink is given to musicals, which I have to skip). The book dates from the 90's(I don't have it handy to confirm), and lots of info has come to light since it's writing, so it might be pretty outdated....I'll drag some of the more interesting anecdotes over here when I have the book nearby, but one has been bothering me... The author states that Franz Waxman was commissioned to write an 'insurance score' for GWTW. It goes even further to state this was recorded! I'm sure it's bunk, but thought it would be fun to see what you all think about this, and what a different film GWTW would have been, had Waxman scored it. Sean I have personally prowled the archives of Selznick studios, which reside in the Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center at the U of Texas at Austin. In the voluminous Selznick memos, it is clear that Selznick had thought about a "back-up" score for GONE WITH THE WIND, and apparently thought (at one point) that Waxman had been hired to produce a backup score, but Waxman never worked on such a score, as far as I could tell. Waxman scored THE YOUNG IN HEART for Selznick before GWTW, and was set to score THE ADVENTURES OF TOM SAWYER for him, but Selznick starting diverting his money to GWTW, and TOM SAWYER was finally scored with a bit of new music from Steiner, and much more music tracked in from other films.
posted 06-06-2002 10:46 AM PT (US)

OHMSS76 Goldmember	Perfect! Thank you for the info Tom! I had a feeling it was speculation...news this big would have been well known by this point. So basically this 'rumor' was begun (in a way) by Selznick! Quite interesting.... Sean
posted 06-06-2002 10:54 AM PT (US)

joan hue Goldmember	One book I read had Steiner scoring 11 or 12 films in 1939. Wow. When handed GWTW, he asked for and received help from orchestrators and other composers. Our current composers complain about too little time, but I've noted that some of the "Goldie" guys did 8 or more films a year. Sorry, have never heard the Waxman story. NP Marie Ward
posted 06-06-2002 12:36 PM PT (US)

Tom_B_Stone Minimember	quote: Originally posted by joan hue: One book I read had Steiner scoring 11 or 12 films in 1939. Wow. When handed GWTW, he asked for and received help from orchestrators and other composers. Our current composers complain about too little time, but I've noted that some of the "Goldie" guys did 8 or more films a year. Sorry, have never heard the Waxman story. NP Marie Ward Max was a workaholic. He did most of GWTW, and 2 other movies over the same period. Steiner really wanted to score GWTW, and begged Warner Bros to let him do it (since he was under contract to them). Warner Bros allowed it, as long as it did not interfere with him finishing his Warner assignments on time! It is an interesting thought to compare Steiner's busy schedule to the short time that composers have on today's films. The new guys also have to demo everything, and deal with more rewrites. In the olden golden days, the studios owned their own chains of theaters and had a backlog of films to release, so they weren't generally locked in to fixed release dates. These days, they seem to set the release date before the film is even started, and any production delay means less time for the composer.
posted 06-07-2002 12:10 PM PT (US)

PeterD Goldmember	This from Ronald Haver's massive book, "David O. Selznick's Hollywood": "At the same time that he was composing for GONE WITH THE WIND, Steiner was also writing the score for Warner Bros.' FOUR DAUGHTERS -- and working twenty hours a day trying to finish them both. His doctor ws giving him daily injections of thyroid extract and vitamin B-12 shots. With all that, Steiner almost didn't compose the score, as he kept telling Sleznick that he couldn't meet the deadline. Selznick was used to hearing that from Steiner, but to ensure that the work would be done, he let it be known that he was thinking of replacing Steiner with Herbert Stothart, the head of the MGM music department. Word of this reached Steiner, who was properly furious, as Selznick knew he would be, and Steiner redoubled his efforts, composing almost all of the three hours and fifteen minutes of music that the picture needed. One of his orchestrators, Hugo Friedhofer, was pressed into service to write the music for the escape from burning Atlanta, while two fragments from Franz Waxman's score for THE YOUNG IN HEART, as well as an ominous bit of music by David Axt from DAVID COPPERFIELD, were used for the scene in which Melanie knocks on the door of Bonnie's death chamber."
posted 06-08-2002 06:59 AM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Goldmember	Also, when the sneak for GWTW was shown to get audience reaction, Steiner's score was not yet ready. So it was tracked with music from Newman's Prisoner of Zenda(1937). John.
posted 06-08-2002 01:57 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Goldmember	Actually, as I recall, there are two short cues by Waxman in the GWTW score, ones having to do with the letter Scarlett gets about here first husband dying in the Civil War. Tara's theme is nice and there are other passages that are ok as well, but when I picked up Rhino/Turner's 2 cd set of this score, I could barely make it through alive. A lot of it is dull, dull, dull. But Selznick loved Steiner so.....
posted 06-09-2002 09:10 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Goldmember	Reading Peter D's quote I discover where the 2 Waxman cues originate from. So that great Atlanta cue is by Friedhofer and not Steiner, no wonder I think it's the best moment of the score. Obviously, GWTW was the big film of its time (and adjusted for inflation it's still the film to gross more money than any other, seen by more hoards than Titanic and Star Wars and all the other films that have the big dollar signs by their titles today) so Steiner probably would have killed any other composer who tried to get near his credit on it (and Selznick probably didn't want anyone else anyway). Still, his score sounds as if he was up 20 hours a day on pep pills writing the thing.
posted 06-10-2002 03:05 AM PT (US)

Tom_B_Stone Minimember	quote: Originally posted by Lou Goldberg: Reading Peter D's quote I discover where the 2 Waxman cues originate from. So that great Atlanta cue is by Friedhofer and not Steiner, no wonder I think it's the best moment of the score. Obviously, GWTW was the big film of its time (and adjusted for inflation it's still the film to gross more money than any other, seen by more hoards than Titanic and Star Wars and all the other films that have the big dollar signs by their titles today) so Steiner probably would have killed any other composer who tried to get near his credit on it (and Selznick probably didn't want anyone else anyway). Still, his score sounds as if he was up 20 hours a day on pep pills writing the thing. Let's be clear here. The Burning of Atlanta was composed by Heinz Roemheld. It is mostly comprised of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" and "Dixie." The music following, on the country road, the silhouettes, all the way to the intermission, was composed by Max Steiner, and Friedhofer orchestrated. Mr. Haver was incorrect, according the billing statements in the Selznick archive, and the sketches at Brigham Young University. Friedhofer did compose most of the first reel, including the main title, the business with Scarlett and the Yankee soldier at Tara just after the intermission, and more. Adolph Deutsch composed the Christmas in Atlanta sequence. Steiner's "helpers" used Steiner's thematic material and wrote in his style, and I doubt that anyone can actually tell who did what without referring to the manuscripts or the pay slips, which are all preserved in this case. The Waxman and Axt cues are short bits, which were tracked in at the last minute to cover editing changes or bits that Selznick did not like. That GWTW sounds like it was written by someone on pep pills is a gross exaggeration. Otherwise, the action junkies who constitute today's soundtrack fans would be much more enthusiastic about GWTW. As for Steiner making death threats, on one of his sketches wrote something like "this is just an idea. Do what you want." On another sketch, near the finale, he wrote "if you change one note of this, you'll never work in this town again." Make of it what you will.
posted 06-10-2002 09:09 AM PT (US)

OHMSS76 Goldmember	This is some great info, thanks for sharing gang You must forgive me, but I have the 77min. single disc condensation for this one, which is plenty for me. I have read several times that Steiner would annotate his scores with humourous instructions, jokes, that sort of thing...maybe John Morgan would be able to enlighten us further? Best, Sean
posted 06-10-2002 09:59 AM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Goldmember	All very interesting fellows. Thanks, J.
posted 06-11-2002 04:59 PM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Goldmember	Oh yes, one more thing: They keep turning up new "Intermission" music all the time. I have heard at least three different ones. Amazing, huh? J.
posted 06-11-2002 05:01 PM PT (US)

John Morgan Goldmember	In my opinion, GWTW by Steiner is a film music masterpiece. Steiner, like Korngold, would go over his sketches at the piano with his orchestrators to make sure things were done to his satisfaction. Also, he mapped out the main title for Friedhofer to "compose." And speaking of Steiner's little quips on his sketches, I do remember a few from GWTW. "If D.O.S. doesn't like this comedy effect, we'll use it in a WB picture" To Adolph Deutsch: "Adolph, This might be too screwy - But after all the Baby does come after screwing. So Why Not. Change anything you want-even your underwear. I don't care, my sex life has 'Gone with the Wind'" And finally dealing with the last reels of the film: "Boy, they sure cry in this reel!" Steiner always had his sense of humor. I might say also that Friedhofer had great humor too. We reproduced his drawing after completing THEY DIED WITH THEIR BOOTS ON in our CD booklet.
posted 06-11-2002 06:17 PM PT (US)

OHMSS76 Goldmember	Thank you very much for sharing the above John, it's always good to get a bit more of Steiner's wonderful personality. Perhaps someday, someone will write an absolutely definitive essay on this score and the many factors that constituted its creation. NP: Agony & The Ecstasy (North) Just got this in, already love it....magnificent complex music. Best, Sean
posted 06-11-2002 06:33 PM PT (US)

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