GOLDSMITH: Basically i am looking for the humanistic values. I want to find a character that i can get inside of, my focal point at least. I don't believe in the leitmotif style of composing something for this, something for that. I want a central character which will motivate the score thematically and i want everything out of the score to develop from there. I'm looking for some meaning or emotional values that are not on the screen.
We're not set decorators.(Knowing the Score-David Morgan)""

...hmmmm...a quite anti-Star Wars philosophy, don't you think?
Anyone here who doesn't like Goldsmith?

K

Don't you think that rating is just a little bit much? I mean, I enjoy LEGEND and all, but it's not like it's the end-all-be-all of film scores... And while that track is exceptionally good (one of the best on the album, certainly), that rating is overkill!

Oh - and Crono/Kyp doesn't like Goldsmith.

Dan

Yet, I don't feel the need to advertise my dislike for one particular composer everytime I get on this board.

Scott

NP: Star Wars/Episode II-Attack of the Clones

quote:

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Originally posted by dgoldwas:
Kyri,

Don't you think that rating is just a [b]little bit much? I mean, I enjoy LEGEND and all, but it's not like it's the end-all-be-all of film scores... And while that track is exceptionally good (one of the best on the album, certainly), that rating is overkill!

Oh - and Crono/Kyp doesn't like Goldsmith.

Dan

[Message edited by dgoldwas on 05-29-2002][/B]

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hmmmmmmm....i still think that Legend is a masterpiece..
To me, all the tracks make great sense. Not just Dress Waltz. (I just put that there because that's what i was listening to the time i was writing the above.) If you read the story in the booklet while listening to the score you can discover so many things. I haven't seen the movie because i was told it wasn't so great. Preferably, i want the score to remain like this in my memory. I get the impression that every note has a meaning in this score. Something that i don't get very often when listening to Williams.

k

quote:

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Originally posted by Scott:

NP: Star Wars/Episode II-Attack of the Clones

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AGREED!

K

quote:

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Originally posted by dgoldwas:
Don't you think that rating is just a [b]little bit much?[/B]

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k

*/******************************.

quote:

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Originally posted by SEBULBA:
How come this particular topic doesn't word wrap?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kyriacos S:
To me, all the tracks make great sense. Not just Dress Waltz. (I just put that there because that's what i was listening to the time i was writing the above.) If you read the story in the booklet while listening to the score you can discover so many things. I haven't seen the movie because i was told it wasn't so great. Preferably, i want the score to remain like this in my memory. I get the impression that every note has a meaning in this score.

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Funny, how this is a FILM score, that you say you don't want to see the film with the music because it might change your perception of the score.... when in reality, the whole INTENT of the score was with the FILM. So your memory of the score is actually NOT how Goldsmith intended it to be when he was writing it.....

Interesting to think about, eh?

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
Stars! So many Stars!

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The phrase you're looking for is "My God--it's full of stars..."

He gives every score he likes something absurd like 35 / 5. Usually, it's something Goldenthal or something Goldsmith.

Then, whenever most other composers are broughten up, he unjustifiably calls them crap without any reason as to why.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lancelot:

And...I wouldn't say it's an "Anti-Star Wars" philosophy, as much as an "Anti-Star Wars" [b]approach. (In fact, I wouldn't say it's an anti anything...but a valiant attempt at trying to start something.)[/B]

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yeah, you are somehow right.
Hey! I'm a foreigner! I was really trying to find the right word about that, but it seems that i got it wrong.

k

quote:

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Originally posted by dgoldwas:

Funny, how this is a FILM score, that you say you don't want to see the film with the music because it might change your perception of the score.... when in reality, the whole INTENT of the score was with the FILM. So your memory of the score is actually NOT how Goldsmith intended it to be when he was writing it.....

Interesting to think about, eh?

Dan

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Well, i'm sure that the way i relate the music with pictures is NOT sooooooooo much different. Besides the booklet really helps getting my imagination started!

k

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Originally posted by Hasta:
I for one have learned to completely ignore Kyriacos S's ratings.

He gives every score he likes something absurd like 35 / 5. Usually, it's something Goldenthal or something Goldsmith.

Then, whenever most other composers are broughten up, he unjustifiably calls them crap without any reason as to why.

Just don't bother trying to understand them, Dan.

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hmmmmm...
I could tell you 100 or more reasons on WHY i consider composer X,Z,Y not being a GREAT composer, it's just a bit harder for me to express my complicated ideas in you language(i hope you can understand).
But i DO happen to know a couple of things about music and Film music in general. When i give those ratings is because i get soooooooooooo excited when listening to something of GREAT quality that i just want to show my LOVE for the particular piece of music. That rating merely represents my excitement. That's just me. Well, i myself don't own a film music site, so my experience as a reviewer is somewhat limited. However, my experience as a musician is somewhat bigger, so i can really distinguish what's GOOD music-Film music and what's not.
And I'm really sorry if this is what you think of me when you see my name up on the boards. I have been to your site before and although i sometimes disagree with certain reviews, i've always had a lot of respect and somehow admiration regarding the ways you people can write such complicated reviews.

Kyriacos S

Sorry for coming off as a bit harsh (admittedly I did)... I guess it's simply because you always seem to hold the same composers in such an enormous high regard (judging by your ratings), and others that you dislike in such an exceedingly low regard... (i.e. Zimmer... I often see you comment on how he's a joke, but never explain why)...

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
The phrase you're looking for is "My God--it's full of stars..."

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For shame. I knew it wasn't right. Well, it doesn't appear anywhere in 2001 (the movie), and I've read the book only once and haven't watched the sequel that often, so...

Still, how embarassing.

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Originally posted by Hasta:
Apologies.

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Apology accepted.

k

First, logically speaking, if someone makes a correct assertion and others disagree with him, then those others must be wrong.

What is music in film supposed to do for the typical [meaning linear, more or less] motion picture?

Music finds its place in film first and foremost because it is something that helps to make motion pictures more meaningful for audiences. It is a communicative device. It occupies a part of the soundtrack known as the non-diegesis; in other words, the music in a film soundtrack is intended to be heard by audiences alone. Characters within a film hear one another's dialogue and the sound effects, but not a picture's score [with notable, atypical exceptions including CE3K, Gremlins, and Legend]. Thus, a film score, by nature, is meant to enhance the filmic experience for those partaking in it.

Since a film score is meant to help a film impact an audience to a greater extent than it would have otherwise, it follows that a film score must accentuate the crux of a film. Goldsmith displays an understanding that most films, such as The Last Castle for example, are linear--plot-based--films with a message/slant that becomes evident...sometimes, if not usually, through characterization.

Thus, as the veteran composer notes, a film composer should identify and perpetuate productions' perspectives in his music. One thing that almost always is subjective is a motion picture plot. In order for a composer to enhance and not subtract from a film's essence, message, etc., his music must complement a filmmaker's statement.

In leitmotivic and atmospheric scores, this does not consistently occur. Some films, it could be argued, benefit from these style scores. Nevertheless, this is seldom true. Goldsmith's storytelling approach is superior almost all the time to the others.

2. Art, if you choose (even as I do) to define film music as such, is particularly subjective.

3. To accept one composer's approach (above others) as superior is subjective.

4. The composer's music must not always compliment a filmmaker's statement, but must also, when appropriate, contrast the statement.

One must ask what art's purpose is. Everything cannot be art. This contradicts the law of identity. A is A and not B, etc. I am not I and you at the same time, and vice-versa. This is not a matter of opinion.

So, what is art? What is the purpose of film music? [I already addressed this question.]

Film music must operate according to its purpose if it is to fulfill it.

Briefly, I think we may be misunderstanding one another as regards a film's/filmmaker's "statement." Goldsmith's music for The Boys from Brazil, for example, on album must sound as though it couldn't underscore a horror film. However, that quasi-counterpoint actually re-enforces the horror. It adds to it by underscoring the insidious plot with a romanticized waltz, implying that the Nazis feel a sense of pride and dignity about what they do. Communicatively, that's pretty chilling stuff. [Besides this, Goldsmith's score is marvelously well-structured and is one of the finest efforts in his career. It should have won Oscar gold.]

Given the context of the situation, Goldsmith is correct. As I stated previously, the composer's evaluation of linear film structure is much more coherent than competing--dare I say less well-thought-out--views. Goldsmith is an infusionist as opposed to a diffusionist. He illustrates that a film is almost always a series of relationships as opposed to a disconnect among the characters, scenes, etc. The innovation and validity of his storytelling approach to film music cannot be overvalued.