What I mean is, Williams' themes for STAR WARS, SUPERMAN, JAWS, and INDIANA JONES (to name only the most famous), as well as Elfman's BATMAN fanfare, these themes have unequivocally made their way into pop culture. *Anyone* who hears but a snippet of them will tell you what they are, regardless of that person's education or background.

Is it still possible today? Can a theme be composed today that will, either in time or right away, be easily recognized by everyone? One event that nurtured that thought for me was the attachment of Elfman to the SPIDER-MAN movie. No matter how good his theme would've been, would it have been an instant pop culture hit, like the original cartoon's song? I don't think so.

To the best of my knowledge, the last theme to make such a deep impact was Mark Snow's theme for THE X-FILES... and that was nearly a decade ago.

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Originally posted by Kosh:
So, can any theme composed in our present "era" ever be as famous and recognizable as those themes of old?

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Yes.

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Is it still possible today? Can a theme be composed today that will, either in time or right away, be easily recognized by everyone?

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The possibility exists.
The probability does not.

I doubt we'll soon see something as memorable as the Star Wars theme on such a wide scale.

So the answer is "yes."

I've also been surprised in the past by the number of people who recognize Poledouris' theme from Free Willy... and unsurprised by the number of people who say "Michael Jackson wrote that, didn't he?" :P

However, I do agree that the Feather Theme is pretty much a part of pop culture now.

Hedwig's Theme, not for now, but who knows in the future.

Philipp

As the Blockbuster Movies nowadays include only ONE "theme" which is something like
*quiet-string-vibrato-leading-to-plockPLIMplomplockPLOMplim-CRASH-TUUduDUUUU-
CRASH-PLICKplock-CRASH-whiiiiiIIIEEEEEE-TUduuTUduTUduDUUUUUUU*
I'm afraid these kinds of "themes" won't stay long in the public's mind - and for reason; because all of these so-called "themes" sound so similar.

SPIDER-MAN is, unfortunately, the latest typical entry to the veRRRRy "imaginative" style of writing movie themes (and music) nowadays.....

I should move to another planet.

KEN

;)

Hmmm... I'm gonna go on a limb here and theorize as to why it might be, in my opinion, that we'll probably never get another pop culture theme (at least in a while).

When John Williams composed STAR WARS, he basically marked the beginning of a new era. Movies before that had mostly been filled with songs and there was very little space left for score (if any, at all). His use of the symphonic orchestra was, at the time, pretty much what the use of techno beats, loops, and samples are to today's audiences: it was new, and fresh, and people noticed.

When you're used to hearing pop songs, the fanfare blast at the beginning of STAR WARS will make a deep impression on you. And if the composer's using leitmotiv, then you can be sure you'll remember those themes.

Today, what people notice, I think, is the "cool" modern music, when there's a strong beat, and loops, and samples. Orchestral scores are like dinosaurs that miraculously (but fortunately for us) survived the age of extinction. People might be wondering what they're still doing here. They don't bother looking at them anymore.

Of course, you couple that with the Hollywood mentality of quick, assembly-made scores, and you get this: no more recognizable themes.

We might still get a few exceptions in the coming years, but they'll be very rare. Beyond the Feather Theme, can anyone think of something of the caliber of JAWS or BATMAN? I don't think so....

When we have public nights at our observatory, I will play some sort of "outer space" themed music. More than likely, I use...

A.I.
E.T.
CE3K
Hook (I know, not really space related)
Something Star Wars]
Spacecamp

People 90% of the time will know it's Williams. 100% of them think it's Star Wars or E.T.

As an aside, I was in Best Buy today and they were playing Potter to advertise the DVD arriving on Tuesday.

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Originally posted by Kevin:
People 90% of the time will know it's Williams. 100% of them think it's Star Wars or E.T. :)

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JURASSIC PARK? No way... definitely not as recognizable as SUPERMAN or BATMAN or the Raiders' March, which proves that it's not a question of the composer used, but probably a question of the times.[/B]

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This conclusion is not supported. Of the folks I know who are capable of recognizing any musical ideas at all and arealo part of the subset who pay attention to music out of context (which is what you're asking people to do - a sort of ad hoc needle drop quiz) they ALL recognize the Jurassic Park theme. One Magic-playing, web design-ish sub-clique calls it the "dinosaur love song" and play drinking games around it.

Your method of proof is not sound, btw.

There's a difference between a theme being recognisable and it being part of 'pop culture'.

Given the themes we've managed to come up with, I guess Kosh is right when he says that X-Files was the last such theme, with maybe a tiny exception for Forrest Gump.

But I still firmly believe that another such theme may present itself anytime soon. Just becuase people are used to orchestral scores nowadays, doesn't mean some composer can't whip up a superb theme ina huge film which everyone will remember.

And speaking of great themes in huge films, I guess Across the Stars will never make it, simply becuase it's Star Wars, which is already identifiable with the Main Theme and with the Imperial March, and which, as a film, is 'nothing new' (in the best sense of the phrase of course).

Most people could tell you who wrote Huckleberry Finn, but probably never read the book.

Some great musical moments come in our time--some don't. And some audiences don't even care, because music occurs mostly in the periphery for them.

While I certainly agree that much of it has to do with the unfortunate dumbing-down by-the-numbers "insert lone trumpet here" type of film scoring embodied by the Media Ventures crowd and James Horner (and widely imitated even by those who are not), the fact is that it goes a bit beyond the generica of the standard film score and begins to enter the realm of how music is used in a film. These talentless hacks are able to survive in a world in which their dull wallpaper is desired by filmmakers.

Nobody who listens to The Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones can deny that they are written in a very different style from the scores of the original Star Wars Trilogy. While it is easy to point at the changes in Williams' style, unfortunately watching the films tend to give one an alternative impression...

When a cue appears in Star Wars, it is there for a reason. The same goes for The Empire Strikes Back. Both scores are highly motivic, but more than that the music that does appear in them serves an important purpose. Return of the Jedi, despite having some very wonderful moments, does not have any moments without music, which unfortunately takes quite a bit away from the power of the score as a whole.

When one looks at the new films, they share with Return of the Jedi the wall-to-wall music, but more than that the music that they have is more often filler than dramatic. One of the annoying issues of the original Phantom Menace album was the prevalance of meandering, formless cues that worked under visuals but fall apart because they were too tailored for them.

Therein lies the problem... is it John Williams' fault? Listening to a score like A.I. tells me no. Each cue in that film, wretched as it was, existed for a specific reason and the film/music relationship was very sophisticated. If the music never rises above a certain level in that film it is more because it was remaining ambiguous for so long to support the film... but nevertheless listening to the score by itself, one hears an internal logic and musical symmetry to the score that is lacking in The Phantom Menace (I think the Attack of the Clones CD is a bit better an album, but I think there is definitely too much music in that film).

What am I saying?

Quite simply, film music is becoming omnipresent in a movie. Filmmakers are frightened of not having music for every single moment. While it sounds ludicrous for a film music fan to say it, this is counterproductive not just for the art form, but for its appeal as well.

This is not to say that a wall-to-wall musical approach is always unwarranted. Howard Shore proved that a composer can keep a modern film score engaging over the course of three hours with The Fellowship of the Ring, but if one listens to that score, one finds that there is a lot of dynamic allowing the score to, when it is there, to be verying, and when it is not (rare, but it happens) to not be there for a purpose. This, however, is the exception, not the rule.

Filmmakers of the past understood what music did for their films, and understood how important it was for a music score to be in accord with their film. Filmmakers of today do not trust film music and don't really understand what it is for... even some filmmakers who have been around for the earlier eras of filmmaking seem to have lost their bead on that important element. It seems that now they just want music here, there, everywhere. Why? Because there is supposed to be music there. Should there be music there? Look at the scene and judge for yourself.

I can't tell you how many times in recent memory I have been sitting in a theater and saying to myself, "why is there music in this scene?"

For as long as these overarcing problems persist, there will not be an opening for film music to enter the pop-culture arena. Without music being properly used in a film, it will not make an impression beyond it being background noise.

P.S. I have read and loved The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and read and loathed The Great Gatsby

Very true.