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Author	Topic: Question for Roy Budd fans...

TV's Frank Goldmember	OK, hopefully there are other Budd fans here to help me with this question! I finally got around to buying the album TOMORROW NEVER COMES and when skimming through it I was shocked to hear action tracks lifted directly from his score for PAPER TIGER! Is this correct? I got online and listened to samples of both albums and they were still the same. Why was this not listed on the album credits or any reviews? If they actually used the same cues for the film itself, why would they not be credited on the TNC album cover or in the liner notes (i.e., these cues were used in PAPER TIGER)? If it is a mistake that happened when the album was assembled together, was there a reissue with the correct tracks from TNC? Anyone here have some info? Thanks!
posted 05-20-2002 12:03 PM PT (US)

Stephen Lister Goldmember	Well spotted I was always baffled by all those action cues on the TOMORROW NEVER COMES CD - as I remember it, it's a static hostage drama, with no action sequences that could support such dynamic music. You just solved the mystery - but also opened another. How could such a cock-up happen? Towards the end of Cinephile's release of these great scores, their high standards of presentation began to slip a little, not putting proper cue titles on many of the CDs. And their version of THE STONE KILLER ruins some of the cues with clumsy repeated phrases that artificially lengthen the tracks but ruin the music's proper flow (listen to Legend's superior presentation of that score and you'll know what I mean.) Were Cinephile not paying attention towards the end there? Or were they just led astray by somebody's unhelpful titling of Budd's score tapes? Clearly, if the tracks had proper titles, and not just cue numbers, Cinephile would have used them; and obscure movies like THE MARSEILLE CONTRACT and TOMORROW NEVER COMES are hard to find in order to reference where the music occurs - not to mention dreary to sit through (I should know, I suffered through The Marseille Contract just to make track titles). Still, it's hard to imagine how FOUR cues from PAPER TIGER could make their way onto the TOMORROW NEVER COMES CD. Interestingly, they're not exactly the same - the mix sounds a bit different, the cue lengths aren't identical, and Track 2/"Kidnapped" has some sections in a different order. Anyway, for anybody interested in a direct comparison, here are the TOMORROW NEVER COMES tracks that are taken from PAPER TIGER: Track 2 (TNC M5) = "Kidnapped" from PAPER TIGER Track 11 (TNC M22) = "Under Suspicion" from PAPER TIGER Track 15 (TNC M26) = "Out of Control" from PAPER TIGER Track 17 (TNC M27) = "Escape" from PAPER TIGER Listening to Track 11 is kind of funny now - it has some very overt Japanese instrumentation, and clearly doesn't belong in TNC!
posted 05-20-2002 02:36 PM PT (US)

TV's Frank Goldmember	Thanks so much, Stephan! I'm glad I wasn't just going crazy! I also wish I knew what happened over at Cinephile for their last Budd releases, they were pretty shoddy. It's great to have more of Budd's music on disc, don't get me wrong, but I hate not having track titles other than TNCM15 or FBM1. And it is obvious that the PAPER TIGER tracks do not fit in TNC due to the Asian instrumentation. I guess I just felt a little short-changed, paying for an album which has tracks from an album I already own! I felt like returning the CD, but it's Budd and there is so little by him I gotta keep it. Stephan, do you know if his score for SEA WOLVES is still available? That is another one I was curious about.
posted 05-20-2002 03:40 PM PT (US)

BMikeJ Goldmember	As far as I know, all of the Cinephile titles have been discontinued but some import distributors still stock titles like Get Carter and Sea Wolves. The other stuff is gone, including Cinephile's reissues of Jesus Of Nazareth and No Strings Attached by Barry Gray.
posted 05-20-2002 05:33 PM PT (US)

Stephen Lister Goldmember	I just checked and Screen Archives have THE SEA WOLVES listed for $15. It's a pity Cinephile kinda ran out of steam - I'm curious about what happened behind the scenes, what their particular problems were after such a great start. I would like to have had better presentations of ZEPPELIN and CATLOW. I had high hopes for a release of WHO DARES WINS (The Final Option). And I thought maybe Budd's electronic-edged score for WELCOME TO BLOOD CITY might show up, but, alas... Maybe some day. [Message edited by Stephen Lister on 05-20-2002]
posted 05-20-2002 06:33 PM PT (US)

BMikeJ Goldmember	It would've been great to have The Final Option... There is a private release out there with a suite from Final Option and it's very exciting...
posted 05-20-2002 07:06 PM PT (US)

BMikeJ Goldmember	I'm still amazed at the incredible talent Budd had and how it was so underutilized. With the overuse of electronics in the 80's, composers like Budd seemed to just be cast aside like old toys. Again, I'm amazed at how talented he was. If you listen to Get Carter and go through each Cinephile disc, you can hear him getting better... And what confidence...
posted 05-20-2002 08:38 PM PT (US)

Stephen Lister Goldmember	So true ... and am I dreaming, or did I read something about him scoring a silent film just before he passed away? Phantom of the Opera or something? Another composer's work was used instead of his, so Budd's last great orchestral work was unrecorded. People were saying what a great composition it was, and there were hopes it would see the light of day. I'm pretty sure I'm remembering that right...
posted 05-20-2002 09:40 PM PT (US)

Stephen Lister Goldmember	Yes, I just did some checking and Budd did score the silent movie Phantom of the Opera (Carl Davis's music ended up in it instead). EMI apparently planned to issue Budd's on CD, but it never happened. Budd composed nearly 90 minutes of music for an 80 piece orchestra, and those who have been lucky enough to hear it consider it to be his masterwork...
posted 05-20-2002 09:55 PM PT (US)

Gae Goldmember	Thats right Stephen. We were discussing Roy Budd's music in the "What have you seen?" sectiona few months back and I found this at IMDB "....But perhaps his most ambitious project was that completed shortly before his death. His symphonic score for the 1925 silent film classic - Phantom Of The Opera, The (1925) - written for an eighty-piece orchestra, was recorded and will hopefully get a release one day. Roy Budd died from a brain haemorrhage on the 7th August 1993 at the tragically early age of 46. Fortunately for devotees of film music, during a relatively short career he managed to cram in over fifty films, several of which found their way onto LPs and latterly CDs. His early death was a tragic loss to both the music and the film world. Gae NP Supernatural thrillers
posted 05-21-2002 02:27 PM PT (US)

TV's Frank Goldmember	So I finally found a wealth of Budd scores I thought had been discontinued. Maybe there were and I lucked out or maybe they just went through a re-release, but I found the albums for SEA WOLVES, KIDNAPPED, FLIGHT OF THE DOVES, WILD GEESE, and SOLDIER BLUE/CATLOW. What a find!! I absolutely love the theme for FLIGHT/DOVES. It's one of those tunes that as soon as you hear, it just feels comfortable, like you've always known the melody. KIDNAPPED has a great overture and action cues, again strong themes to boot. CATLOW just blew me away with its verve and energy - I wish Budd had scores more Westerns! I can't stop listening to this one.
posted 07-25-2002 04:33 PM PT (US)

BMikeJ Goldmember	Glad to hear you found these Budd scores, Frank. I just love Kidnapped and Flight Of The Doves... Great song written for Kidnapped, as well.
posted 07-25-2002 05:33 PM PT (US)

Graham Watt Goldmember	I'll always remember Roy Budd for his scores for movies I sneaked into the cinema to see. TOMORROW NEVER COMES was an 18 I think. Then when I was experimenting with jazz I discovered FEAR IS THE KEY, with those incredible Ronnie Scott solos. When I got old and weird (weirder) I kind of thought that maybe he didn't dominate the orchestral idiom too well, opining that SINBAD AND THE EYE OF THE TIGER was stretching his considerable talents too far in the wrong direction. But I'm not so sure now. Still, I think that his modernistic scores are his best. I remember watching THE STONE KILLER on TV years ago and thinking that I'd pay a fortune for that music. Then it came out and only cost a tenner. Great music anyway. Looking at photos of Roy Budd, one can detect that he had terrible dress sense (those blue jackets - maybe actually quite cool for their time), and that he liked sports cars. Apart from his great music, I'll remember him for a joke he told on TV once, in between bouts of lightning-fingered piano playing - "Hear about the Irish kamikaze on his eighteenth mission...?"
posted 07-28-2002 03:44 PM PT (US)

TV's Frank Goldmember	Thanks for the remembrances, Graham, very insightful! The only film I have seen which Budd scored was SINBAD/TIGER, which is unfortunate, but most his films didn't seem to make it to the States. Or maybe I am out of the loop! I started collecting Budd with DIAMONDS and sought all his jazz/orchestral fusion scores. I was unsure of how he would handle a full orchestral score as well, but was impressed when I finally picked SINBAD/TIGER and WILD GEESE I and II. His thematic quality is always strong, much like Barry, and all parts of the score are propelled by a strong melody (in song-form, most often). I know Budd wasn't sought after much later in life, but I am curious to know what genre he would have moved into musically if were still alive.
posted 07-29-2002 04:22 PM PT (US)

BMikeJ Goldmember	I just bought Diamonds, sight unseen, on DVD, based on Budd's score. I expect to enjoy it immensely. I would love to see Marseilles Contract on dvd. I've only seen it once but it has Michael Caine as a sociopathic hitman who has a nasty habit of defenestrating people.
posted 07-29-2002 08:37 PM PT (US)

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