I was watching ROTJ again tonight and it was truly a great experience, having seen 5/6 of the saga. It was the first time I really started seeing the whole thing as one unit, rather than as the prequels and the classic trilogy.

And all thanks to AOTC. Why even TPM is more understandable now. Knowing the backstory really does enrichen the SW experience. The whole Emperor/Vader/Luke scene for example, is much more meaningful, and AOTC also has a host of details which firmly secure it's place in the saga.

I didn't even notice many of the following on my first viewing - I got a few of them off a great thread over at TheForce.net (and I know a lot of these are small and seemingly insignificant, but they make a great big picture):

• Yoda's character. The way he toys with Obi-Wan in front of the Younglings is very reminiscent of his behaviour in ESB.

• Arms being cut off. This is something that became sort of a trademark in the original trilogy (C3PO x2, Cantina, Luke, Vader, etc.) and it continues. The whole Anakin's arm part also adds to the final scenes of ROTJ.

• Quite obvious references such as TPM ending much like ANH and AOTC ending much like ESB (the shots are very similar).

• Lines such as "You'll be the death of me" (Obi-Wan to Anakin) and the whole relationship between the two.

• Naturally, the whole politcal background of the Empire and the Old Republic.

• The line "I have a bad feeling about this". And also the return of funny one liners which actually work, and which were so important a part of the original trilogy.

• Padme confessing her love for Anakin when danger is imminent, just like Leia (albeit more convincingly) did in ESB.

• The orange lighting and smoky atmosphere as Dooku returns to Sidious - evokes images of the carbon freezing chamber.

• The whole Fett story, including a possible reference to how Boba guessed what Han might be up to when he hid on the Star Destroyer (cos Obi-Wan played the same trick on him and his dad).

• The Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru story.

• An explanation of how R2-D2 tackles stairs
  

These and many more are the reason I'm dying for my second viewing, and why I really enjoyed watching the original trilogy over again after AOTC. Even seeing the nighttime Coruscant scene on ROTJ SE was more fun after having zipped through those streets during the chase scene in AOTC.

There were times when I thought the whole prequels thing may have been a bad idea, but now I can't wait for Ep. 3, cos I think the whole 12+ hour saga is going to be one very well conceived, and told, story.

Finally someone got it!

Camillu,

I'm with you all the way. It's nice to see someone seeing past the bad acting, the bad dialoge and whatever "else" bad there is and see this movie for what it is, a great part of the whole Star Wars story (saga).

Scott

Given the last few months' turmoil, the opening scene was VERY chilling, I thought.

Loved how Palpatine stroked Anakin's ego at every chance.

-- Episode 3 better tell us why none of the droids remember Tatooine, or the Lars residence since they've obviously been there; or that no one mentions/ remembers Qui-Gonn Jinn.

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Originally posted by JJH:
Episode 3 better tell us why none of the droids remember Tatooine, or the Lars residence since they've obviously been there; or that no one mentions/ remembers Qui-Gonn Jinn.

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Simple: the droids have their memories wiped. Owen and Beru get bumped on the head. Obi-Wan tries those death sticks, and gets some brain damage. Anakin/Vader doesn't think to check out his step-brother's place to look for his kids because he's... umm.... hmm. Yeah, we'll see how that one is handled.

It's obvious that Lucas - with his "tweaking of the Original Trilogy - will digitally change scenes so everyone remembers Tatooine and Qui-Gonn.

That's how he will silence the people who talk about "inconsistencies" in the Episode 1, 2 (and probably) 3.

Don't put it past him.

The difference is that Lucas has updated everything about this genre and has the money to do what he wants.

And Vader didn't even know about Leia - and he wasn't looking for Luke. And when he sent the stormtroppers after that Pod, he didn't even care where it was, as long as they bring back that droid.

Owen probably doesn't remember cos there are loads of droids around, and he only gets to meet R2 and C3PO for a few hours, when there are more important things on his mind.

But when I saw it again today, I noticed what the whole thing was about. With the positioning of Anakin's face and the style of his hair, his silouhette looked exactly like Darth Vader's, mask and all.

In the star wars books it was developed that the emperor had the Death Star designed at the Maw Cluster, and that a human designed it. It kinda ruins all those books now, especially Darksaber, which is one of my favorite SW novels. I know its a dorky nitpick, but still......

I just meant to say that Lucas can't be expected to take the plots of the books into consideration as well. All that essentially matters is that the 6 films make a satisfying whole.

In fact's that's why if I had to choose I'd probably read Zahn's The Thrawn Trilogy, becuase they take place after ROTJ, so the guy can say what he wants without detracting from the films.

Also Palpatine's manipulation of Jar-Jar to get him to give the speech in the Senate while very slight was perfect.

One note of interest, the look on Count Dooku's face after he took Anakin's arm. He looked somewhat sad as opposed to the look he had after he cut down Obi-Wan, He wanted to kill Kenobi. Hmmm, makes me wonder.

Apparently that's going to be quite a plot point in Ep.3, along with the whispering Qui-Gon we're supposed to hear during the lightsaber duels at the end.

It is good to see than you are beginning to realize the scope of the Star Wars epic. I highly recommend the following--

The Journey of Luke Skywalker: An Analysis of Modern Myth and Symbol
by Steven A. Galipeau.

For if you would like to understand why themes such as dismemberment are important within the Star Wars cycle. (The book should be available in the Mythology section of your local bookstore.)

I wish our local bookstore had a mythology section....

Yes, the closing shots are very similiar (Even as far as the droids to the right, facing out upon a sunset, or sunset-like-nebula.) Look also at the closing shots of I and IV, too.

Some time ago, (after Phantom Menace was in theaters) there was criticism that the Federation Trade ship too closely resembled the Death Star. There's a reason for that...!

It's not the movies' job to follow the books. It's the books' job to follow the movies. However, the more and more authors that feel the urge to do their own tinkering with the story before it is completely told will continue to suffer inauthenticity. (Even moreso than they already do.)

The themes--in fact, the very stories of Anakin and Luke--are intended to be very similar, of course, right down to losing a hand. The idea is, though, than when faced with the same consequences, Luke (the light-bringer) will make a different choice than Anakin(the god-child), by not destroying his father. It is ultimately Anakin who will bring balance, though, through his own sacrifice.

Palpatine is just so perfectly mean. Nearly everything he says is so obviously a lie. Those are my favourite parts from the movie probably.

I was a bit annoyed by the reference to FOTR..."You must join with me, Obi-Wan"...

I was caught by surprise to see the Moisture Farm and Lars and Beru Owen, that's something I hadn't expected. Also loved what has become of Watto.

I still don't see why people keep complaining about poor acting. Ok, so Christensen isn't too convincing (not exactly bad either). But Portman is good, McGregor is excellent, and McDiarmid is outstanding as always (I'd add Lee, but he didn't get too many chances to act a lot).

Dialogue? The loves story has some cheesy dialogue, but most of it isn't any worse than your typical love story dialogue in other movies. And in the scene where Anakin says all those extra-cheesy things (by the fireplace), I thought he's SUPPOSED to be extra-cheesy. Just look how Amidala reacts. I honestly did NOT understand why the audience had to laugh their a**es off several times (but then, when I watched Unbreakable, they did the same during the scene where the boy pointed a gun at his father).

I found the big battle to be simply unnecessary. They should either have changed it or shortened it. It kept going on and on and on without any real dramaturgy. But the final scenes, particularly the launch of those pre-Star Destroyers, made up for that. And that the Stormtroopers are a clone army originally conceived by the Jedi is quite frightening. (I should have guessed that Anakin would lose his arm though ).

The score? Lots of it were barely noticeable. The big battle was a horrible mess of TPM cues. But the constant hints of the Imperial March during the Tusken Camp sequence (not only the obvious statement at the end, but also the more subtle hints before that) were great, and the love theme is a killer (love how it's based on Anakin's theme).

I didn't quite understand Dooku though. When he tried to reveal to Obi-Wan that Palpatine is a Sith Lord, I assumed he was trying to do something against him, but then he turned out to be a Sith too...

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
When he tried to reveal to Obi-Wan that Palpatine is a Sith Lord, I assumed he was trying to do something against him, but then he turned out to be a Sith too...

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Hey - he's a bad guy! He's trying to play both sides - using the truth to convince Obi-Wan to come to his side.... when he refuses, well, screw him!

The point, or essence, behind Darth Tyrannus/Count Dooku is that he is a charismatic liar. He'll gladly say "join with me and we'll overthrow the Sith" to get you on his side. And slowly he will pull you in. This is the next development after the previous Sith, Darth Maul, who was pure aggression. (Wrath is the first sin.)

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
Um...If you meant to say "withour any drama", ok, though "dramaturgy" is something different.

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Hm...according to my dictionary, "dramaturgy" is what I meant. But perhaps my dictionary is wrong?

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The point, or essence, behind Darth Tyrannus/Count Dooku is that he is a charismatic liar. He'll gladly say "join with me and we'll overthrow the Sith" to get you on his side. And slowly he will pull you in.

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Probably true. I guess he just does it in a way that fooled me too.

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The audience laughs because they're immature, and basically, they just don't "get it." I realize that sounds dismissive, but I'm past caring about it.

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I'm going to observe that perhaps the audience doesn't quite accept Hayden and Natalie as adults--what with the dearth of teen-centric movies,(even Titanic) and teen-drama television show today, they probably were just approching it as a "Sci-Fi Dawson's Creek"--And who couldn't laugh at that idea, even though I say it knowing that referring to it as such is wrong on both accounts.

In fact, there was a bit more dynamic in Episode IV, because Harrison Ford was clearly an adult, who enjoyed the anti-romance between him and the 19-year old Princess.

Still...these first episodes are difficult because they have to explore things that people don't commonly accept as logical--a 9-year old hero, a teenage romance.

I'm going to add it in here, also, that there is already some criticism from people who thought the ending was a little too Matrix-like. The innovative genius behind The Matrix and Star Wars is that they are images that we have already seen in other forms, other mediums, and particularly other movies.

Changing the topic, since I'm listening to the CD again: I find the last bits of the end credits track pretty amazing. They basically sum up the main storyline of Anakin through the first three episodes and beyond:

1) Anakin's theme from Ep.1
2) Across the Stars (basically the main theme of Ep.2)
3) Darth Vader's Theme
4) Across the Stars again
5) Vader's Theme again, followed by a harp that ends the cue - the same instrument that plays the ultimate statement of the theme in ROTJ.

It was interesting hearing Spielberg say that he believes one of Lucas' strengths lies in editing. Apparently, Lucas recut Raiders of the Lost Ark making it leaner and meaner and Spielberg actually liked the changes (Of course he could just be saying that...) It's interesting hearing this, considering all the recent complaints about the editing of TPM and AOTC. Oh well...

Regarding the quality of acting, I did think it was a little weak. But then I remembered that Mark Hamill was no Daniel Day Lewis and Carrie Fisher was no Meryl Streep. Anybody ever see Mark and/or Carrie in anything else that was even remotely good?!?