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Originally posted by Shawn:
Again, according to the first post, it seems that Lucas does use the new score for most of the movie, just not the climax, in which he uses the two droid cues from ep 1.

I, for one, do not have a problem with this, since the climax involves the droids and the two Neimoidians from ep. 1. Those 2 cues should be used for that scene, just as Lucas re-uses themes when certain characters appear on screen(Leia, Luke, Yoda, etc.).

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Shawn,

There's a distinct difference between using THEMES from Episode 1 in the climax of Episode 2 - but here they use the ACTUAL CUE. And it's not "exclusive", either - it's intermixed with original musis for Episode 2.... As Jeff Bond pointed out, it's an editing mess.

My problem is with the reuse of actual CUES from different FILMS.

(And I'm not referring to the unfortunate habit of putting a piece of music intended for one sequence in another.... that's also prevalent, certainly....)

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Originally posted by Quill:
If existing form of the theme (pacing, orchestration etc) fits the scene then why not reuse it. However, if you are telling us that the reused cues do not fit the scene then I agree with you whole-heartedly.

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Again, I'll try to be clear here. It's not just using the theme. It's an ACTION CUE that uses the theme. I swear, they edited the scene to TPM, using the cue as temp music - and then just left it in. It's not just a rendition of the theme that "fits" - it's a whole segment of ACTION music.

My only conclusion is that Lucas and his music editor tinkers and messes with the thing long after Williams has fulfilled his scoring duties. I think that's what ticked John off on TMP. He was basically blind sided by what Lucas had done. I'm sure Williams would rather have written music specifically tailored to the sequence.

Two other comments: every time a fan-anticipated movie like this comes out and gets panned by critics before fans see it, there is a chorus of "damn the critics!" which I really find tiresome and Pavlovian. On AICN when a female critic posted a pan of AOTC the Talkbacks crucified her; when Moriarty posted a positive review people were down on their hands and knees praising him as the greatest reviewer ever--before they had even seen the film! The philosophy is clearly: any critic who disagrees with what I PREDICT my opinion of the movie in question will be is scum, therefore ALL critics are and have always been scum--except, of course, when they agree with me and make me feel better.

Two: to Quill, re: Star Wars vs. AOTC--dismissing the first film as just a "space western" and pointing out that AOTC has a much more elaborate plot to me misses the point of why movies work when they do. MORE plot does not necessarily mean BETTER plot. The Phantom Menace had a more complex plot than Star Wars but in my opinion it was a badly constructed plot that failed to get the viewer involved with the characters. Star Wars WAS simpler, but it was also more linear, suspenseful, and featured characters who were far more deeply involved in the story and easier to relate to on a human level--whining Luke or not (Luke is SUPPOSED to be a whiny teenager in that scene, dammit!). That's why Star Wars stays in the memory longer than TPM and why for all its obvious flaws (yes, there is cheesy dialogue and acting) it was and is still revered as a movie. The assumption is always that kids made this movie a hit and are now grown up and wallowing in nostalgia--what about the people who were adults when they saw the movie--like, say, the critics?

On another board someone was bitching about the negative reviews and saying Roger Ebert is the only reliable, geek-friendly critic and he will love the movie. Ebert just gave it two stars--the only negative review he's given a Star Wars movie.

Guaranteed that someone on this board will trash Hayden Christiansen's performance...sample people who will make excuses for Mark Hamill's weak acting. Just another example of the defense mechanism that pops up...protecting this wonderful event from our youth.

I try to approach any Star Wars or sci-fi film as if I was a kid again...and I'm never really let down. That may seem a juvenile thing to do...but heh...it keeps me enjoying films (yes--even Phantom Menace) in the face of an onslaught of criticism.

One word about critics...I never listen to them...online or otherwise. The human mind is too complex for any one person to have the exact same experience with a movie as I would.

Ultimately these movies need to live or die on their own, not enmeshed against the defensive backdrop of sentimentality...if a script is blah so be it. If the acting is lifeless too bad--and there were thespian clunkers in almost ALL SW movies. If Lucas has seemingly grown phobic of charisma and humanity in his prequel films tough titty. There's always Yoda with Kung-fu grip!

Mark

I for one have taken every critics reviews as their take on it and not the sum of what people think. I have no problem with Ebert's comments and probably will agree with him. It doesn't mean I won't enjoy the movie though.

You all probably remember how critcis who disliked Phantom got attacked and later most fans end up agreeing with much of the criticisms once they got a chance to see the movie. I think you will see it with this movie also. I'm predicting that I will like the movie but agree with many of the criticisms stated here and in other reviews (the acting, bad music editing, too political, ect).

And a question for Jeff or Dan and anyone else who have seen it. Did the subject of Midichlorians make an appearance (or explanation of what the force is). If Anakin is hi in Midi counts and it's in his blood, wouldn't Vader have a low count since he's mostly mechanical ?

As for the music, other than the love theme, I'm disappointed. Hope I like it much more once I've seen the movie.

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Originally posted by Quill:
One word about critics...I never listen to them...online or otherwise. The human mind is too complex for any one person to have the exact same experience with a movie as I would.

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But like I said before, you don't need to find a critic who has the exact same experience as you.

You'd probably trust a friend more than a critic to persuade you to see a film, correct? Same thing. Your friend may not have the exact same feelings or experiences you do, but you are familiar enough with the way he views movies to know whether to take his advice and see the film or not. You can do the same with critics: you just have to become familiar with their tastes.

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Originally posted by James (Kirk?):
But like I said before, you don't need to find a critic who has the exact same experience as you.... you just have to become familiar with their tastes.

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I agree completely. It's not so much whether a critic likes a thing, but why or why not he/she does that will tell you anything useful. I write reviews to help people like a thing, as best I can, by upholding or diffusing expectations which might blow the experience. With that in mind, and because I had already written one up for my friends, I have posted a review of my own for AOTC in the "Just Movies" area. It's here:
http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum4/HTML/000442.html

There are pretty clear spoiler warnings, if you want to stay away from any details not already inferred by what we know from IV, V & VI or the AOTC trailers. I do NOT do a book report plot rundown - what's the point?

Some reactions to the above conversing, the score is most definitely brutalized, both in the film (where it is, indeed, mixed too low, Bozman) and on that hack-job of a CD. I'm confident that ROTJ music makes no appearance in this film. Dan's lifted, exact TPM cues do, and it was distracting. The pacing is pretty blah, Jeff described it perfectly.

Charges off "visual overload" are crap. What Lucas did or didn't do with the script and actors would have been the same if even the effects were given all the care of those in Lou Ferigno Is HERCULES. This is a gorgeous, gorgeous movie, and that's never a problem, not generally, and not here. Dan saw it digitally - I'm envious. The difference between digital cinema and film is greater than that between digital and analog sound, and I can't think of a better movie to see this way. SPQR, if you are within 3 states of a digital projector, those pixels are well worth the drive.

Quill, be careful about the script. Not all of it is in the film, and I have to say, the cuts were ill-advised. What those cut moments accomplished, the film now doesn't.

Luc, no, no mention of medichalorians (sp?). It doesn't come up at all. And as for more of the score to like in the film ... I remember the TPM cues, misplaced CD cues, and what Dan thought was Han & Leia's theme during the conveyor belt incident (I remember it as a tragically arranged AOTC love theme - still inappropriate for that action scene). Nothing else was memorable that was new (much I probably couldn't hear though).

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The film has been locked for a few weeks, and THX TAP has been QAing the prints around the clock.

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Well that's not entirely true it would seem. Rick McCallum mentioned just the other day that Lucas was shooting additional shots as late as last monday when he thought up an additional shot to add near the end.

I agree that it is unlikely however that for the press screenings it would carry a temp score of any kind, even if the movie was minus a few shots he has suddenly decided to work on these past few days. Unless he blatantly knew some ass whould bootleg it and fooled them by having them bootleg only a near complete version....

It is also rumoured the final DLP version will have bonus footage not found in the 35mm release prints or both the 35mm and DLP press screenings in order to entice people to DLP screenings come Thursday.

The two DLP screenings in london last week most certainly got a stellar reaction. There is a lot of support to have as many possible see it digitaly...except from Roger Ebert of course.

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Originally posted by Dan Brecher:
Well that's not entirely true it would seem. Rick McCallum mentioned just the other day that Lucas was shooting additional shots as late as last monday when he thought up an additional shot to add near the end.

...............

It is also rumoured the final DLP version will have bonus footage not found in the 35mm release prints or both the 35mm and DLP press screenings in order to entice people to DLP screenings come Thursday.

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Well... that's the only way to have the extra footage. There is no time to reprint over 3,000 copies of the film AND have them QAd and delivered by Wednesday. So obviously any "new shots" would have to be done for the DLP versions only.

Dan

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Originally posted by dgoldwas:
The electric guitar is barely noticible (thankfully drowned out by sound effects).

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I did a search here trying to find the debate about the electric guitar in the movie. This seems to be the only place I could find that mentions its use in the movie.

I went to see it this weekend for the third time. The Chase Through Coruscant remains the best action cue in terms of fun, exciting tense moments.

And that guitar: if you listen really, really hard when Anakin drops the speeder to chase after Zam (it's just before she goes into the tunnel, I believe), you can hear it under the sound of the speeder accelerating.

NP: Chase Through Coruscant...for the third time today