MovieMusic.com Message Boards: Rumor(?) Johnny to re-score some of original Star Wars films

Message Boards

Movie Soundtracks

Rumor(?) Johnny to re-score some of original Star Wars films

Archive of old forum. No more postings.

Please visit our new forum, The MovieMusic Lobby, to post new topics.

Author	Topic: Rumor(?) Johnny to re-score some of original Star Wars films

jonathan_little Oscar® Winner	I remember reading somewhere that Williams wanted to insert "The Imperial March" into A New Hope, but I was just hoping that impulse would pass. Unfortunately, it seems Williams will be re-scoring some of the original trilogy for the eventual DVD release. This is what I read over at the DVDfile forums: quote: Rick McCallum confirmed that John Williams would be doing some musical re-scoring for another updated version of the original Star Wars Trilogy for its eventual DVD releases in time... Can't they just let the films be? They already mucked with them and added some of that digital stuff which doesn't fit with the rest of the film, now we need to go back and fudge with some of the best film music of all time? Cut it out!
posted 05-07-2002 06:36 AM PT (US)

jonathan_little Oscar® Winner	Oh, and to the Whine Police, I'm ready for ya!
posted 05-07-2002 06:37 AM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	I understand your gripe Mr. Little...however, my personal opinion is that giving the entire six films musical continuity is a good thing. Don't worry, you'll always be able watch the original films in some form, but if the narrative benefits by some added scenes (ie the Emperor/Coruscant), tightening some of the weaker effects, and tweaking the music then I'm all for it. I do agree with you in that additional scenes that serve no function in advancing the story should be left out...case in point: the ludicrous song and dance number in ROTJ.
posted 05-07-2002 07:28 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	As long as we get the original versions on DVD (though the question is indeed if we will), I totally agree with inserting the Imperial March into ANH. Also with the people who want Ian McDiarmid for that little scene of the Emperor in ESB (who's that gnome in the current version anyway ) and a snippet of the Emperor's theme.
posted 05-07-2002 09:01 AM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Marian Schedenig: who's that gnome in the current version anyway I don't know the actor, but what makes him look soooo freaky is that they composited orangutan eyes on top of him.... (at least, I remember hearing that somewhere....) Dan
posted 05-07-2002 09:05 AM PT (US)

JJH Oscar® Winner	by the way, the guy's name is Clive Revill, for those who can't read the end credits. :-) I don't necessarily disagree with inserting the Imperial March into ANH, but where would they put it? and I was kinda surprised they didn't track the emperor's theme into that short scene in ESB, like that tracked Jabba's into ANH. that song in ROTJ by Jerry Hey is indeed horrible!
posted 05-07-2002 09:29 AM PT (US)

SEBULBA Oscar® Winner	Well, I could possibly see John and Lucas inserting Vader's theme in the very beginning when Vader enters through the smoke. That would seem to be one appropriate place anyway.
posted 05-07-2002 09:39 AM PT (US)

Erik Woods Oscar® Winner	They should also take out the Yoda puppet in Empire, Jedi and Phantom and replace it with a digital version so it will match with Episode II's digital Yoda... They should also replace all the character's 1970's hair cuts to match the early 1980's hair cuts in Return of the Jedi. Oh Oh... I've got another one... they should just replace Williams score with a brand spanking new score by Joel McNeely to match his Shadows of the Empire score or they should have Williams re-score McNeely's Shadows of the Empire. And they should also take out the puppet Jabba in Jedi and replace him with a crappy digital version to match the other crappy CGI Jabba's in SW:SE and Phantom. You know what's funny about all of this... it that once they finish screwing with the Star Wars film they still wouldn't have fixed the lightsaber blunder in Star Wars during the Vader/Kenobi battle. Kenobi's lightsaber all of a sudden stops glowing for a moment or two and you can see the metal rod he was actually using. I cringe everytime I see that... Goddammit... why can't Lucas just leave well enough alone? Erik
posted 05-07-2002 10:20 AM PT (US)

miss tonya Oscar® Nominee	I've seen more and more derisive remarks about the "puppet" Yoda recently. I don't see what's wrong with it? I think a digital Yoda will be SO obvious!
posted 05-07-2002 11:28 AM PT (US)

TV's Frank Oscar® Winner	I'm also not convinced that the score revisions are a good idea. I think it is rather amateurish to hit me over the head with the Imperial March EVERY SINGLE TIME Vader is on screen. Give me some thematic diversity! I like that during ANH we get a break from the freakin' Imperial March (though I do love that theme). It will start to sound like so much "needle-dropping" where every time a character walks on screen, their theme music HAS to play! I like the fact that during the Vader/Emperor chat in EMPIRE, the music simply sets an unsettling tone w/ strings in the upper ranges. It's incredibly effective and I don't need the Emperor's theme simply trotted out to tell me (1) this is the Emperor and (2) he is evil.
posted 05-07-2002 11:37 AM PT (US)

Marc Flake Oscar® Winner	When I listened to "Attack of the Clones" over the weekend, I was delighted in the way the various themes are woven into the fabric of the score. I began to wish that the wonderful new theme for Anakin and Padme could somehow be worked in Episodes IV, V and VI. Most specifically in VI when Luke is talking to Leia about their mother. And perhaps at the end of VI when Vader watches the Emporer killing his son, cut it in just before the Skywalker/Jedi theme. I don't think this is a bad thing. It would be bad if someone other than Lucas began messing with Lucas' work -- but, as far as I'm concnerned, if Lucas wants to refine his vision, it's okay with me.
posted 05-07-2002 11:49 AM PT (US)

Dinko Oscar® Winner	Let's see... crappy-sounding badly aged but well recorded transparent Eric Tomlinson 1977 recordings. combined with brand new 2005 Shawn Murphy digital recordings. DOES NOT COMPUTE! DOES NOT COMPUTE! EXPLOSION IMMINENT! HELP! HELP! HELLLppp...! :dead: Rescores are bad. Let the films be what they are. However, if it has to be done, then they should rescore what needs to be rescored, and rerecord the whole score to make it sound the same. Otherwise we will have the hissy original tapes mixed in with the artificial digital tracks.
posted 05-07-2002 12:16 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Oscar® Winner	My problems: I feel it is most likely that we'll have a single version of the original trilogy released: The new super-duper, re-scored, and digitally-fubared "original" films. I highly doubt that an untouched version would enter the market, even though it seems the demand would warrant one. These films had amazing special effects that were superior at the time. Sure, they have aged, but darn it, is Lucas going to have his heirs go back and retouch the films every 30 years to keep them looking current? This is combined with Dinko's point -- I agree that the whole score will have to be re-recorded if any new music is added. The new Jedi ending worked for the most part because of the unique and sparse instrumentation, but when you start doing full blown orchestral stuff, the difference between the new and old tapes will be painfully obvious. Just compare the sound of the trumpets in the end of the new "Celebration" music to the end titles. Urgh. NP: By Request (Pops & Williams)
posted 05-07-2002 12:50 PM PT (US)

JJH Oscar® Winner	I for one would NOT mind hearing a modern re-recording of Empire by the LSO!
posted 05-07-2002 01:32 PM PT (US)

Kevin Oscar® Winner	To do a "Dan"... This has been discussed here and here. Kevin
posted 05-07-2002 03:01 PM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Kevin: To do a "Dan"... This has been discussed here and here. The virus is spreading!! Jz NP: *Bounty Hunters Pursuit:* Attack of the Clones (John Williams)
posted 05-07-2002 03:32 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by John Zimmer: The virus is spreading!! Hey now! That's not a "virus"! It's just using your brain..... Dan
posted 05-07-2002 03:45 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Oscar® Winner	Well, your two threads mention he was messing with Episode IV only. This comment from Rick McCallum appeared to encompass all Star Wars movies. Plus mine has a more informative title!
posted 05-07-2002 04:54 PM PT (US)

El Cid Oscar® Winner	Let's not forget that Lucas did NOT DIRECT ESB and ROTJ. Lucky for us. He shouldn't mess with other people's movies. It's rude.
posted 05-07-2002 06:06 PM PT (US)

Dinko Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by dgoldwas: Hey now! That's not a "virus"! It's just using your brain..... Dan Why would anyone want a search engine for a brain?
posted 05-07-2002 06:40 PM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	In regards to the comment about a digital yoda being obvious...as if the puppet yoda wasn't obvious!!! We're just too damned attached to the original form of the movies...let it go. My feeling is, we will always have the original versions...I have them all two perfectly acceptable mediums. I know its a simplistic statement, but if you do not want to see a reworked version don't watch it. Many people are convinced that any tweaking is blasphemy, yet they went to see the special editions in the theatres, and would most likely buy the next iteration on DVD...and then cry foul. What's the point? I welcome anything new...its not as if Lucas has sent out a task force to come into our homes to burn the existing copies of the original trilogy. OK...so this was a silly post. Oh well.
posted 05-07-2002 07:39 PM PT (US)

AaronR1074 Oscar® Winner	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by El Cid: Let's not forget that Lucas did NOT DIRECT ESB and ROTJ. Lucky for us. He shouldn't mess with other people's movies. It's rude. <HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> The only reason why he didn't direct ROTJ and ESB is because he was so "spent" after directing ANH that he had to take a break! Remember all of the creative technology that he had to personaly oversee in development just to show a tie fighter do laps around the Falcon. He pulled over-nighters just to get the film finished. The movie was sent to theatres like a week after they finaly finished editing the special effects! That's crazy film making considering this was his first big-budjet movie. AND.. if you remember your Star Wars history.. the others might have directed it.. but Lucas produced it.. and when Lucas produces a movie he's THERE almost every day of shooting. He oversaw EVERYTHING in ESB and ROTJ. He also DID write the entire story to the saga. Not Lucas' movies? PHAAAAA! NP - Alanis Morissette (A CD mix I just finished burning) Oh yeah! There was an original topic to this thread wasn't there? Ahum... well considering we don't hear the "Imperial March" in the saga until the end of Episode II... Episode I has NO imperial theme at all since the Empire didn't exist yet... I think it's only natural that we should hear Vader's theme in Episode IV. I mean, it only makes sense right? First time we should hear it is right after the main titles and we see the star destroyer devistating the blockade runner... this should continue right into some insanely hard-driven action music that we hear during the battle.. along with alittle fresh comical undertones when 3PO and R2 look both ways before crossing the hallway.. suddenly cut back to the Imperial March. Then we don't hear it again until the end of the movie when Vader first ignights his lightsaber.. and a deep chorus sets in dark undertones slightly getting higher and more nobler when Ben gets killed. THAT would give continuity in the saga. Just my 2 cents [Message edited by AaronR1074 on 05-07-2002]
posted 05-07-2002 08:04 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Oscar® Winner	I have a friend who loves Star Wars and hated all the tampering on it. He didn't even like the sequels: "They weaken and cheapen the original." He said the thing works so well, why mess with it. And I tend to agree, I haven't seen anything in the Special Editions that I thought improved on things and I did see things that I thought worked against the film like CGI-ing a weird animal in who makes a grunt during one of the key lines in Wars: These are not the Droids you're looking for. And the whole idea of the bounty hunter in the bar shooting Solo first and missing rather than just getting shot by Solo as in the first version really messes with something I liked in the first place. Just the same, I understand the need to tinker with things after the fact. These films don't belong to us after all, we're just the public. The point was made that some of the Wars films were directed by other people than Lucas, but I'm sure their contracts don't give them many rights in the case and it's not like Richard Marquand is going to want to have Allan Smithee replace him over a few shot and music cue alterations in any case. We've had topics about revisionism before (look in the Just Movies forum for some recent ones in fact) and we've been pro and con on it as we are on so many other issues. I can understand Lucas wanting to bring a continuity to the series. On the other hand, when you compare the wit and speed of Star Wars to any of the subsequent films, I wish he'd kept that as the continuity. Mostly the alterations have been to dumb down things for kids, to introduce a more conventional morality, to spell things out that didn't need to be, etc. The guy who made Star Wars in 1977 is not the same guy now in 2002 and it shows. Of course, while I like the Hawksian Star Wars and wonderful sets of The Empire Strikes Back, I've never been overly big on any of these films. The greats of world cinema are elsewhere, so what someone does to these one way or another is minor.
posted 05-07-2002 08:12 PM PT (US)

miss tonya Oscar® Nominee	Well, the films don't belong to us.. that IS true, but we ARE kind of like shareholders. We - the public - made Lucas rich!!!!!
posted 05-07-2002 09:31 PM PT (US)

Ed Oscar® Winner	I would rather NOT have any changes made to the first SW films, but IF IT'S ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY then I hope at least we'll see the original versions on DVD, too. It was once mentioned by someone at Lucasfilm that the original prints had degraded and were no longer acceptable. Poppycock. Lucas still has archival dye-transfer Technicolor prints of the original trilogy from the original release that could be used as an excellent source for a future DVD.
posted 05-07-2002 09:39 PM PT (US)

JJH Oscar® Winner	no one pitches a fit when scenes are ADDED to other director's cut DVDs... why do they gripe about additional ones in Star Wars? [Message edited by JJH on 05-08-2002]
posted 05-08-2002 12:33 AM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Oscar® Winner	JJH--Actually, I've heard some griping about Director's cuts before. One of the most interesting came from Cyd Charisse who complained about an added scene to a director's cut of The Bandwagon. She said that the scene was left out of the film the first time for a reason and including it 1) slowed down and weakened the original and 2) was just a ploy to make more $$$ from the thing. In general, studios insist that films get dumbed down or shortened for time reasons and they take out the most intelligent things first. In those cases, director's cuts are blessings. In the case of Star Wars, it's such a cultural phenomenon and so many people have fond memories of it in one form, that to change it is to change one's past and culture itself in a way. And, if the changes seemed to be positive there'd be less bitching about it, but in the case of Wars, the changes haven't necessarily been improvements. But I think this is a side issue. People who wouldn't mind the changes want there to be original versions that are available as well--they want to preserve a version they think is special. In any case, director's cuts vs studio cuts, it's a case by case thing which turns out best and people are going to have their opinions of which version they like the best regardless.
posted 05-08-2002 02:58 AM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	In other words Lou...people have a tendency to overreact to non-issues. One thing that I think bothers people is the notion that the Special Editions represent ideas that Lucas initially wanted in the films but either did not have the budget or the technology was not there. I don't think he threw these things in for fluff...and for people who love only the originals it is almost as if he is taking them away from them. I will grant that the dance scene in ROTJ and Greedo taking the shot in ANH were silly, but Jabba's scene in ANH (albeit a tad flat) was a welcome addition. I see additional scenes with the Emperor or Coruscant would lend to the story also. A perfect case in point--the new montage ending of ROTJ is far more befitting the overall story. The galaxy is free, and all we get to see is a bunch of giant squirrels dancing around. When done right, additions can benefit a film...any one who can't admit that some elements of the Special Editions were welcome changes is suffering from blind devotion. Wow...for a non-issue I sure wasted a lot of space on this post.
posted 05-08-2002 12:49 PM PT (US)

Ricard L. Befan Oscar® Winner	quote: Rick McCallum confirmed that John Williams would be doing some musical re-scoring for another updated version of the original Star Wars Trilogy for its eventual DVD releases in time... McCallum's exact words (From TF.N): During a session on Saturday at Celebration II in Indianapolis, producer Rick McCallum was asked if Williams was going to rescore ANH. His response: "you're good. You're very very good." [Message edited by Ricard L. Befan on 05-08-2002]
posted 05-08-2002 03:10 PM PT (US)

Swashbuckler Oscar® Winner	I have just "done" the Trilogy with some of my friends. We watched the Special Edition versions to take advantage of my 5.1 system, and I have to say that the most effective "Special Edition" was the one they did the least to... The Empire Strikes Back. Except for those superfluous shots of Vader going for his shuttle at the end, the film plays out almost exactly as it does on my laserdiscs of the original versions, but with a more explicit Wampa and a nicer looking Cloud City. Did the changes improve this film? I don't think so. The elements that make it the best film in the series had nothing to do with the special effects... it was good writing and good direction. Plain and simple. Neither of the other two original trilogy films had quite that level of value in those two arenas, of course, but small things, such as the character arc of Han Solo in A New Hope is obscured by having Greedo shoot first. Let's face it, if you're in the Mos Eisley cantina, you're a filthy scumbag that would shoot first.
posted 05-11-2002 07:59 PM PT (US)

Lorien Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Ricard L. Befan: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Rick McCallum confirmed that John Williams would be doing some musical re-scoring for another updated version of the original Star Wars Trilogy for its eventual DVD releases in time...<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> McCallum's exact words (From TF.N): During a session on Saturday at Celebration II in Indianapolis, producer Rick McCallum was asked if Williams was going to rescore ANH. His response: "you're good. You're very very good." [Message edited by Ricard L. Befan on 05-08-2002] Then he grinned. The audience laughed, a few clapped, and then he said, deliberately straight-faced, "I'm not allowed to talk about that. But you're good." I read it as a confirmation, obviously and comically veiled though it was. He seemed more impressed than embarassed, but there definitely was some of the latter. --David
posted 05-11-2002 11:53 PM PT (US)

Lou Goldberg Oscar® Winner	The whole thing with Solo shooting first shows that 1) He's sharp, he knows he's about to be shot at and isn't waiting around to get killed, 2) He's a bit of a rogue and tough guy who'd shoot first rather than wait around to be moral. The change takes both these qualities away. Now he's more of a hero in terms of conventional morality, he didn't strike first. But it doesn't go along with who he is in the rest of the film and it weakens the surprise of Han showing up at the last minute to rescue Luke. You need to believe that he's a total dick for this reversal to work and this self-defense moment takes away from one of the key things that sets that up. Lucas made a very fun, witty, fast-paced adventure film and then in every movie since got more and more visual and less and less fun, witty, and fast-paced. ESB and ROTJ were made soon enough after SW to retain some of the spirit but the gap between those and PM and AOTC shows Lucas to be an old guy who has really lost touch with what was good in SW to begin with. AOTC is probably more painterly than PM but I'd trade all the look of these films for better jokes and action even if it meant rickety sets and old-style matte paintings.
posted 05-12-2002 04:58 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	You know, agreeing or not with him, we must thank George Lucas for making us laugh out loud just for making the entire Nerd Community so jumpy and anxious about anything related to his STAR WARS movies...
posted 05-12-2002 11:33 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by dgoldwas: Hey now! That's not a "virus"! It's just using your brain..... Dan Must....resist.... Jz NP: A Bug's Life
posted 05-12-2002 12:42 PM PT (US)

Old Infopop Software by UBB