SFT

:)

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Originally posted by Cole:
It was a more romantic theme and better suited the feeling at the moment instead of the more stoic force theme

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"Leia's Theme", (as it is titled), probably does not underscore her as a character, per se. It is used (on film) during the appearance of her as the hologram message, within which she mentions the historical back-story for the first time (i.e, Clone Wars, General Kenobi, et. al.)

So, in that context, "Leia's Theme", slightly mistitled, becomes more of a historical cue, rather than a character cue...(which would leave room for its' appearance in the third episodic installment.)

When the theme is introduced again, after the "death" of Kenobi, it's signaling the end of a key presence in that history. Which, as it may turn out in the remaining episodes, is prophesied or forshadowed. (It has already briefly been noted by Qui-Gon: "I foresee you will become a Great Jedi Knight.")

And your idea that the theme only appears when Leia is referencing the plight of the rebellion and Obi Wan Kenobi's importance to it is also shaky. The theme is used to represent Leia in A New Hope when Luke enters her detention cell and finds her laying across the bed or whatever it was. Then the theme shows up in several places in The Empire Strikes back and only when the focus is Leia.

I think Williams was acting intuitively in Ben's death scene and hadn't yet fully defined his themes.

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Originally posted by HAL 2000:
Nice theory Lancelot but like many thoeries yours also has swiss cheese sized holes in it.

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Do you mean to suggest that my theory has holes the size of Swiss cheese itself, which, depending on time and place, may actually vary in consistancy....or that my theory is, in one view (namely yours) like Swiss cheese itself, full of holes? At any rate, I didn't mean to offend the lactose-intolerant in our midst. Blessed are the Cheesemakers, however.

My idea ("shaky" as it may be) that the theme appears when Leia references the history of the Rebellion, not the plight at hand. ("Years ago" she says.)

Perhaps it is the Organa-family/legacy theme (Another--currently unprovable--theory.)

I do not know what you mean by "Williams...hadn't defined his themes", but this is my suggestion that perhaps Williams doesn't burden himself with the idea of pinning down a name for a track title--(though, I am not sure on this.)

Regarding the "Force Theme" - first, this seems to be theme labled by the populace, and not so noted on the albums. However, yes, Williams has been acting intuitively all along.(reference the "Force" cue, as you call it, when Ben says "Hello there" to R2-D2.)

I am not certain that you are correct in stating that Leia's theme appears at all in The Empire Strikes Back. All themes applied to the visual presence of Leia on screen are the "Han Solo and the Princess" (Love Theme) cue.

My idea ("shaky" as it may be) that the theme appears when Leia references the history of the Rebellion, not the plight at hand. ("Years ago" she says.)
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Point taken. But it seems to me that the hologram scene when Leia's theme plays (in the Baru's workshop) is not about exposition of the back story at all. It is about Luke's reaction to the sight of her. Luke and Threepio even talk over what Leia is saying as Luke is more interested in who she is, that she is so beautiful, ect.

I do not know what you mean by "Williams...hadn't defined his themes", but this is my suggestion that perhaps Williams doesn't burden himself with the idea of pinning down a name for a track title--(though, I am not sure on this.)
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Well, he uses Yoda's theme for Yoda, The love theme for Hans and Leia, The Imperial March for the Empire, Anakin's theme for Anakin, The Ewok theme for the Ewoks...

I am not certain that you are correct in stating that Leia's theme appears at all in The Empire Strikes Back. All themes applied to the visual presence of Leia on screen are the "Han Solo and the Princess" (Love Theme) cue.
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Leia's theme is heard briefly in the early scenes on Hoth before Hans and Leia's love interest begins to take shape.

My point is that Williams' scores for the saga are complex and there is a plethora of themes. If he didn't use them with some measure of consistency what a mess it would all be.

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
An unimportant, unrelated post:

Baru? Cynically speaking, when any Star Wars related discussion, what eventually resolves is two fans quibbling over minute details, so here goes--It's the Lars' workshop.

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Well I'll be a nerf herder.

The arguments about Williams' plans for the various themes as they apply to the "trilogy" or "saga" are really moot--nobody working on Star Wars had any idea there would ever be a sequel (and please, if I hear one more time how Star Wars was called "Episode IV" when it was first released I'm gonna pound somebody...).

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Originally posted by JeffBond:
[B]and please, if I hear one more time how Star Wars was called "Episode IV" when it was first released I'm gonna pound somebody.../B]

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But Jeff, Star Wars was called Episode IV, A New Hope. It was I tell you.

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I don't think too much should be made of were themes are placed in Star Wars films. The use of Yoda's theme in The Empire Stikes Back comes to mind. It gets used when Luke is looking for Han and Leia at Cloud City. There is no really good reason for it to be used so trimphantly for the scene.

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Precisely.

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Originally posted by Kosh:
Actually, Lancelot, that's a very nifty answer. But, yeah, it is titled "Leia's Theme", by the composer, so I dunno to which extent that theory could apply.

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Then again, Hedwig's Theme in the Potter score is used to underscore pretty much everything EXCEPT for Hedwig, so...

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Originally posted by Camillu:
Are we absolutely sure that it's always the composer naming his tracks?

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Generally, they do.

I find it interesting that in the behind the scenes videos of the PHANTOM MENACE scoring sessions, the "Duel of the Fates" cue is clearly marked as "The Dual" (or something like that - completely misspelled) on the orchestra's music sheets.

Williams has been known to misspeak themes and titles before, though. For me, the funniest one was the 1993 Pops on the Esplenade 4th of July concert in Boston, where he played the (ahem) "Bracchiosaurus Rex theme from JURASSIC PARK".

Grammatically speaking, it should be--(and probably was intended as)--"Duel" (as in "combat between two entities".)

I don't know about CAMILLU but yea, I was yanking your chain.

I was there on opening day in 1977 too but I don't remember what the opening crawl was titled. Star Wars no doubt.

That was one of the most frustrating parts of the film for me.

James

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Kosh:
[b]Actually, Lancelot, that's a very nifty answer. But, yeah, it is titled "Leia's Theme", by the composer, so I dunno to which extent that theory could apply.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then again, Hedwig's Theme in the Potter score is used to underscore pretty much everything EXCEPT for Hedwig, so...

NP: The Lost World (John Williams)[/B]

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Originally posted by Bond1965:
That was one of the most frustrating parts of the film for me.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Bond1965:
[b]That was one of the most frustrating parts of the film for me.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which one? The part where they didn't mention her name? [/B]

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Exactly. And the fact that they didn't show someone getting delivered a "howler."

James

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Originally posted by Bond1965:
And the fact that they didn't show someone getting delivered a "howler."

James
[/B]

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Hey, this is a family website! (yeah, right)

Anyway, I think I read that Hedwig gets more prominence in the next film (I don't know how much the owl is in the book -- I didn't read them). So you guys will probably hear Hedwig's theme associated with the right character next time.