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Author	Topic: Young Sherlock Holmes

PeterK FishChip	I should add that it's not just about collectors getting upset with each other. The relationships between the manufacturers and "distributors" of these things and the copyright owners can't be improving as a result of this. Does this make sense? Labels should find it in their best interest to drop selling promos immediately if a) there's a notion the copyright holder no longer approves of "selling a few to cover costs" and b) there's a notion that selling promos might tarnish the necessary "good" relationships required for commercially licensing music from the copyright holder in the future. What do you think?
posted 02-28-2002 01:45 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Standard Userer	I think that's a valid point..... please confirm if this is what you're saying (in a nutshell): labels that put out LEGITIMATE releases should NOT also put out promos. Is that basically it? Dan
posted 02-28-2002 01:46 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	quote: Originally posted by dgoldwas: Well.. I AM a soundtrack nut - if I wasn't, I wouldn't be here or doing what I do. I am not, however, a dolt. Dan, I meant that I called Al a dork before I called you a dolt. I am glad you understand why retail companies carry product in stores.
posted 02-28-2002 01:47 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	quote: Originally posted by dgoldwas: I think that's a valid point..... please confirm if this is what you're saying (in a nutshell): labels that put out LEGITIMATE releases should NOT also put out promos. Is that basically it? Dan No! That is not what I am saying.
posted 02-28-2002 01:48 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by PeterK: No! That is not what I am saying. Then why don't you elaborate? And use small words. Dan
posted 02-28-2002 01:51 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	Dolt. If Intrada is asked to help a composer out with a promo, they should help as much as possible. If it means they have to cover the costs of manufacturing, they should. But they should not sell a few copies to cover the costs. These things are not licensed for sale, period. If Intrada wants to foot the bill and be charitable, they should go for it! However, Roger has said Intrada is not a charity. Soooooooo, who foots the bill? You want to take a wild guess, Dan?
posted 02-28-2002 01:54 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by PeterK: Soooooooo, who foots the bill? You want to take a wild guess, Dan? The composer. But that's nothing new. And it doesn't explain why you choose to sell promos. And you gotta get off the "dolt" thing, Peter - it makes you look very unprofessional. Dan [Message edited by dgoldwas on 02-28-2002]
posted 02-28-2002 01:55 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	And Al, you are a dork. To be fair.
posted 02-28-2002 01:57 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	Yes, Dan. I am worried about how I look. Right now I am in my pajamas, and I haven't even brushed my teeth yet. How about you?
posted 02-28-2002 01:58 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	Dan, you haven't answered in 40 milliseconds. I've said what I have to say. Your comment about why I choose to sell promos has been answered, not more than 20 minutes ago. Ring around the rosies is over, I am busy! T'was fun, thanks!
posted 02-28-2002 02:04 PM PT (US)

Al Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by PeterK: And Al, you are a dork. To be fair. Understatement of the year.
posted 02-28-2002 04:25 PM PT (US)

John Prytz Standard Userer	This entire affair of the "Swordfish/Young Sherlock Holmes" promos and their availability has proved to be a bit of a public relations disaster for Intrada - through no real fault of their own. Perhaps their only real "crime" was not coming to terms before the fact of how much demand there would be. So, I'm not surprised that Intrada will no longer flog to the public any promos they make for a composer. I won't cry in my beer over that - promos cause more problems than they are worth, not the least of which revolves around copyright issues (as eBayers have discovered) as well as availability. BUT... For those who missed out, whether directly via Intrada or indirectly via eBay, who might end up having the last laugh??? Perhaps further on down the track the wailing and gnashing of teeth might be from those who got the items, but who in retrospect may have paid too much for them. The history of this business is chock-o'block full of scores we never, ever, would of thought we would have ever seen a proper release of, and now... "The Final Countdown" is a recent example. And how many eBayers have paid through the nose for a boot or out-of-print release, only to discover a new commercial release sitting there in the local music store the following week at 1/10th the price! You can probably come up with dozens of recent case histories yourself. In fact there are now commercial releases of boots I got via Intrada, and Screen Archives Entertainment, at 1/2 the price I paid for those boots. Silly me - lesson learned. So, you missed out on a $20 "Swordfish" or a $40 "Young Sherlock Holmes". Given recent history, who would be willing to bet there won't be a legit commercial release at $15 and $30 next year, or within a few years. Even if Paramount doesn't come to the party, if an Elmer Bernstein or a John Scott can release their own stuff openingly and legally via their own labels, why not other composers who want their stuff out in the marketplace and who in the process might make a buck by doing so. So, perhaps this time next year we'll might all be wondering what the fuss was about! And even if you never catch these fish, there are lots of other fish in the sea of scores available!
posted 02-28-2002 05:30 PM PT (US)

Jeron Standard Userer	Good thoughts, John.
posted 02-28-2002 05:33 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Standard Userer	I'll second that.
posted 02-28-2002 06:17 PM PT (US)

Andr� Lux Standard Userer	And I tought that only brasilians did name-calling...
posted 02-28-2002 07:05 PM PT (US)

MWRuger Standard Userer	Well, I pre-ordered it but if I don't get the damn thing, who cares? It's just a score. I'd like it, but I am sure that someone will burn one for me in a trade. I know I would. Tell you what, if I actually get it, I'll make sure that everyone who wants one can get one in trade, as long as they promise on their honor as a film score fan that they will buy a legit release should it ever become available (No Fibbing!). I know I will!
posted 02-28-2002 09:04 PM PT (US)

Bond1965 Standard Userer	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by John Prytz: This entire affair of the "Swordfish/Young Sherlock Holmes" promos and their availability has proved to be a bit of a public relations disaster for Intrada - through no real fault of their own. Perhaps their only real "crime" was not coming to terms before the fact of how much demand there would be. So, I'm not surprised that Intrada will no longer flog to the public any promos they make for a composer. I won't cry in my beer over that - promos cause more problems than they are worth, not the least of which revolves around copyright issues (as eBayers have discovered) as well as availability. BUT... For those who missed out, whether directly via Intrada or indirectly via eBay, who might end up having the last laugh??? Perhaps further on down the track the wailing and gnashing of teeth might be from those who got the items, but who in retrospect may have paid too much for them. The history of this business is chock-o'block full of scores we never, ever, would of thought we would have ever seen a proper release of, and now... "The Final Countdown" is a recent example. And how many eBayers have paid through the nose for a boot or out-of-print release, only to discover a new commercial release sitting there in the local music store the following week at 1/10th the price! You can probably come up with dozens of recent case histories yourself. In fact there are now commercial releases of boots I got via Intrada, and Screen Archives Entertainment, at 1/2 the price I paid for those boots. Silly me - lesson learned. So, you missed out on a $20 "Swordfish" or a $40 "Young Sherlock Holmes". Given recent history, who would be willing to bet there won't be a legit commercial release at $15 and $30 next year, or within a few years. Even if Paramount doesn't come to the party, if an Elmer Bernstein or a John Scott can release their own stuff openingly and legally via their own labels, why not other composers who want their stuff out in the marketplace and who in the process might make a buck by doing so. So, perhaps this time next year we'll might all be wondering what the fuss was about! And even if you never catch these fish, there are lots of other fish in the sea of scores available!<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks for putting my thoughts down for me. When I replied to the original post in this thread I was still suffering from the wounds of the disasterous John Williams/Yo Yo Ma CostCo incident. (my post was the 3rd listed) My point was about greed. NOT from Intrada, NOT from other retailers, but from individuals who "may" have been able to pre-order multipule copies and then sell them on E-bay. If that is "sour grapes" then so be it. I've seen that term thrown around here a lot lately...and it's probably from people who got what they wanted. So I didn't pre-order...who knew that this CD and Swordfish would be so huge or so limited? I don't tend to pre-order anything and I am wary of mail order since having my Christmas packages stolen from my mail. Okay...so where does this leave me? Sad about the fact that Intrada has had to make a decision to NOT sell any promos they produce. Sure I'm bummed if I miss out...but I'd rather see some people get the ability to enjoy the music than none at all. And I'm sad that they have come under fire...that was never in my thoughts. Doug and Roger have been great. I've ordered from them in the past and have MANY CDs from Intrada. Other outlets that sell have been very kind and wonderful to deal with too. Craig at Screen Archives and Mike at Super Collector as well as the guys at Footlight are others I deal with. The sad fact is that these things will be sold at higher prices, booted and maybe even eventually released in a regular capacity at a lesser price. That's just the way things work sometimes. Anyway...I'm rambling after taking all this in. I think we all need to agree with the poster who got the real point of the matter...this is a PROMOTIONAL ITEM for Bruce Broughton. Let's hope someone hires him to write something as wonderful for another film and then we can all enjoy that score. It's been far too long since we've had something from such a wonderful composer. James [Message edited by Bond1965 on 09-15-2006]
posted 02-28-2002 09:51 PM PT (US)

Kimiakane Standard Userer	Okay, to those who have pointed out to me that it is the right of a CD producer/retailer to sell whatever they wish to whomever they wish, especially in the case of rewarding their prize customers...you do have a valid point. However, shouldn't the company notify these prize customers by e-mail, snail-mail, or phone that they will have said item available and then give them a deadline to order it? Then when the rest of us who don't order as often call up and said item is still in stock...go ahead and sell it to the interested collector? It seems to me that it would be a customary practice that would make sense. That way, when someone wants to order said item...the response would be "sorry, it's sold out" if it is, instead of something like "well, you can't have it unless you are so and so' which is what I had the unpleasant experience of going through. I also think that any CD producer/retailer should have on file all of the retailers who purchase CDs for the purpose of resale. Said retailers have to have a federal tax i.d. number (to my understanding anyway) which permits them to buy and resale goods and the supplier usually knows the names of the authorized person(s) who buy for these companies. When an individual calls up and orders more than one copy of a very limited promo then all kinds of bells, whistles and alrams should go off in the supplier's head and suspect the purchaser may be the sort of person who enjoys preying on the rest of us collectors who were not able to get the desireable CD in time before it sold out. A collector buys one for their pleasure and then may sell it later if they decide they no longer want the item. If they can get more than what they paid for it, that's fine. However, any hobby has speculators who thrive on buying multiple copies so they can make the item sell out quickly and profit by charging obscene prices for it later. More often than not, this is not done by the retailers we all know and love, it's done by the fellows on eBay and other auctions. To sell multiple copies to these individuals, the supplier has to know why they are buying in quantity and what they plan to do with it. It's wrong for the supplier to do that even if the buyer is a "regular big customer" because the odds are that said customer is preying on the collectors who do not practice such tactics. Therefore, I feel the honorable way to do business with non-retail operations is that limited edition promos should be sold one per customer on a first come, first serve basis. Of course, whoever said business is honorable or fair, right?
posted 03-01-2002 10:10 AM PT (US)

Jeron Standard Userer	Woah, Galina, paragraphs woman, paragraphs! Jeron
posted 03-01-2002 11:45 AM PT (US)

Kimiakane Standard Userer	Sorry Jeron, I forgot to breathe, didn't I?
posted 03-01-2002 11:50 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Standard Userer	I thought that someone on this board had posted that Intrada was limiting the amount of YSH copies people could buy to prevent collectors from buying them up.
posted 03-01-2002 12:52 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Mark Olivarez: I thought that someone on this board had posted that Intrada was limiting the amount of YSH copies people could buy to prevent collectors from buying them up. Yeah, something like that - but the promo was made available to "preferred customers" first - and those people tend to be (but aren't always) collectors.... Ironic, eh? Dan
posted 03-01-2002 12:56 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Standard Userer	Here is the thread it was in. Sabbey made the comment after he called Intrada. http://www.moviemusic.com/mb/Forum1/HTML/008475.html[/URL] [Message edited by Mark Olivarez on 03-01-2002]
posted 03-01-2002 01:00 PM PT (US)

sabbey Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by PeterK: When promos are "released," a whole heck of lot is wrong with the picture. The fallout we are seeing now, with Intrada getting out of the current modus operandi of quasi-releasing these, should illustrate this. Sure, there are pluses for getting these things out there, but if collectors are going to begin hating each other over these (and bootlegs, too), it's not helpful. Hence, my comments about promos and bootlegs since who knows when. Maybe this is just my perspective on this all, something the rest here won't agree with, but, I wouldn't mind seeing promos being off limits for all of us and used for what they are really meant for. Promoting the composer! Now, if they want to give away copies to the fans, cool! However, the system of selling a select amount has always seemed flawed IMO. I'd miss having the chance of getting select scores, but won't mind seeing the cutthroat mentality that comes with trying to get this stuff in a certain amount of time and at a fair price going away. Personally, as much as I like all these releases. It is getting tiring to see so many fans these days talk only about the releases that are of a grey nature, rather than all the great commercial releases we have to choose from. Promos and boots aren't the "be all, end all" of film music collecting. Like I said before, maybe it's just me. Regards, Sean Robert Abbey [Message edited by sabbey on 03-03-2002]
posted 03-03-2002 11:24 PM PT (US)

sabbey Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by Mark Olivarez: Sabbey made the comment after he called Intrada. I have said that in most of the threads about this topic I have visited. However, there has been mention of this from others too. Roger Feigelson being just one example, IIRC! Regards, Sean Robert Abbey
posted 03-03-2002 11:31 PM PT (US)

enigmaron Standard Userer	quote: Originally posted by PeterK: And Al, you are a dork. To be fair. I've read that the Blue Whale's penis is called a "DORK". NP: Young Sherlock Holmes...Bruce Broughton
posted 03-04-2002 01:13 AM PT (US)

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