Another thing I noticed: The Lothlorien theme is directly associated with Galadriel as well, it's the first theme we hear in the movie, just before the Ring theme appears (accompanying the movie title).

Just noticed that presumed Gollum's theme pops up again at the beginning of track #3 - fits, too. It's followed by something that seems to appear at 0:40 in the first track as well (it's damn hard to hold all those similar-sounding theme apart), seems to be a secondary Ring theme or something?

At about 1:10 in track #3 is Sauron's theme, which appears a couple of times in the movie as well, again followed by Gollum's theme (when he's tortured in Barad Dűr).

And finally, when I watched the movie I noticed a theme in the scene when Gandalf leaves Frodo and Sam in a wood in the Shire to seek Saruman's council. This theme appears somewhere else as well, though I don't know where (Lorien?). It's not Frodo's theme. I doubt it's a Sam theme. Gandalf's theme perhaps? There's a bit of music when Frodo recalls Gandalfs words at the end of the movie, before he gets in the boat to cross the Anduin. If this is indeed the Gandalf theme, these two should be identical.

Corrections? Additions? Other thoughts?

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
Another thing I just noticed: The music for the moth (that takes Gandalf's message from Orthanc to the Eagles) and the music that accompanies Arwen's first appearence to Frodo seem to be the same. Any clue how the two scenes are related? Must be a more abstract theme, I think?

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And I agree, the lyrics would be excellent. But I wouldn't be surprised if the deluxe set we'll probably get sooner or later includes lyrics.

And what's that theme at the beginning of Amon Hen (track 16)? It shares that three-note bit with the Gwaihir/Arwen music, but the rest seems different. Heh, I think we can listen to the CD for years and still find new themes!

--Brian

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Ok, here's the proof: A Journey in the Dark (track #12), 1:25

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Yes, that's correct. As I said in Andre's Khazad Dum thread from a while ago, having watched the screener of FOTR endlessly listening to bits of the music not on the CD, Gollum's theme shows up a lot, every time he is mentioned or is on screen in fact.

I'll repeat what I said in the old thread;

Everytime he's mentioned or appears the score moves into a specific theme. This happens in the Prologue, when Frodo speaks of Bilbo finding the ring in Gollum's cave (when Frodo and Gandalf are having tea), when Gandalf tells Frodo that Gollum knew Bilbo had the ring and once again in Moria when Frodo sees Gollum.

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Originally posted by Dan Brecher:
I'll repeat what I said in the old thread;

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Oops, I must have forgotten this. I thought we still don't know what his theme is. Your point, then.

Quill: I've been wondering about a prologue as well. Not only to introduce additional information, but perhaps to retell what happenedd in FOTR. It would appear though that PJ plans to make the three films "work as one" when they come out in a boxed DVD set, so I guess any retelling would be cut for that version. And in that case, any backstories would probably be told in the movie, though that would have to happen in FOTR then, since Gandalf can hardly tell Frodo about it.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
And finally, when I watched the movie I noticed a theme in the scene when Gandalf leaves Frodo and Sam in a wood in the Shire to seek Saruman's council. This theme appears somewhere else as well, though I don't know where (Lorien?). It's not Frodo's theme. I doubt it's a Sam theme. Gandalf's theme perhaps? There's a bit of music when Frodo recalls Gandalfs words at the end of the movie, before he gets in the boat to cross the Anduin. If this is indeed the Gandalf theme, these two should be identical.

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Are you talking about the theme which appears from 0:50 to 1:25 in "The Treason of Isengard," then again from 3:55 to 4:30 in "Lothlorien"? I've been wondering about that one myself. The first time it accompanies Frodo and Sam as they travel through the Shire, but I'm unsure as to the precise placing in the film of the second appearance, and I can't remember hearing it anywhere else.

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Oops, I must have forgotten this. I thought we still don't know what his theme is

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When you see it again, just take special notice to every time he's mentioned or is on screen as I say, you'll hear that theme.

As for the DVD... Digi Bits is pretty much spot on for their sources. You know, if a movie like Pearl Harbour can be granted a four disc treatment you'd bloody well demand a GREAT film like Fellowship be granted the same if not better.

Anyone who owned the Frightners Signature Edition LD knows Peter Jackson knows how to handle a special edition expanded cut release of one of his movies. I expect great things from the FOTR DVD.

Dan (UK)

[Message edited by Dan Brecher on 02-12-2002]

Dan

But I think the bit that underscores Frodo remembering Gandalf's words from Moria is the beginning of track #17, so that doesn't quite fit (but nobody said Gandalf's theme HAS to be played there).

Back to the music, and more on the Khazad Dum cue. The movie version has a terrific drum beat lead in before the Fellowship theme soars. Love that...

Back tracking some more:

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And what's that theme at the beginning of Amon Hen

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You mean the haunting choir bit, right? It's there at the start of the Treason of Isengard cue as well. I love this theme.

Its first appearance is when Gandalf leaves Frodo and Sam with Bill in the Shire and underscores Gandalf telling them of Sauron's many spies. The editing here is excellent because this bit of music hits a bass moment as Frodo pats the ring in his front pocket.

The second apperance is up on the Misty Mountains where Boromir is first tempted by the power of the one ring. As you recall he picks it up when Frodo slips in the snow. The theme plays as Boromir is entranced by the ring ("it is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and about over so small a thing"..etc).

At Amon Hen it's there when Aragorn lets Frodo go before the orcs appear. In that scene the film gives the impression Aragon is tempted, you hear the voice of the ring calling out Aragorn's name ("yes my son").

With this themes apperances in mind, I'm drawn into thinking it is some sort of theme hinting at the temptation of evil.

Dan (UK)

PS: There's a new theme nowhere to be heard on the CD which is used three times in the film whilst the Fellowship is on their travels. You'll first hear it when the film cuts to them walking up the Misty Mountains) before that other theme mentioned above breaks in to underscore Boromir's tempation...

Then the theme comes again, this time as a full cue when Saruman is commanding the weather and the mountain caves in. Absolutely SUPERB cue and a very moving theme.

It's heard once again (edited) as we cut to the Fellowship walking toward the outer walls of Moria.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
Hm, that would be cool, but I just checked and couldn't hear it. Do you have an exact time index with seconds? It would also be interesting to compare the words between the appearances of this theme.

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Originally posted by Dan Brecher:
You'll be getting both DVD releases, right, Marian?

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I'll have to, I would never be able to wait three months to watch it over and over again.

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You mean the haunting choir bit, right? It's there at the start of the Treason of Isengard cue as well. I love this theme.

Its first appearance is when Gandalf leaves Frodo and Sam with Bill in the Shire and underscores Gandalf telling them of Sauron's many spies.

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Really? Then that's the possible Gandalf theme I mentioned. Wouldn't know what Gandalf has to do with the beginning of Amon Hen though. Perhaps it's more dialogue orientated in the Shire scene and refers to animal spies or something. I'll have to watch the film again.

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The second apperance is up on the Misty Mountains where Boromir is first tempted by the power of the one ring. As you recall he picks it up when Frodo slips in the snow. The theme plays as Boromir is entranced by the ring ("it is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and about over so small a thing"..etc).

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Or perhaps it's identical to that secondary Ring theme I speculated about as well. It's hard to keep track with all those themes, they sound so similar that I didn't even recognize many of them for a long time. Just today, I realized that there's a second theme in Breaking of the Fellowship aside from Frodo's theme.

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At Amon Hen it's there when Aragorn lets Frodo go before the orcs appear. In that scene the film gives the impression Aragon is tempted, you hear the voice of the ring calling out Aragorn's name ("yes my son").

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Unfortunately, FOTR has already moved to the smallest screens here in Vienna (at least in the two English cinemas). When I watched it yesterday, the image was askew, and the sound was poor; it was hard to hear the dialogue in some places.

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With this themes apperances in mind, I'm drawn into thinking it is some sort of theme hinting at the temptation of evil.

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While the primary Ring theme might stand for how close Middle-Earth's fate is tied to the Ring. (Already on it's first appearence, that theme is SOOO effective: Simple, subdued, over the text "The Lord of the Rings").

Dan, thank you very much for bringing up that travelling theme. I have been entranced with this score and this is one of my favorite pieces that was not released; the very dark version that appears at the end of the film (notice after Boromir comes to terms with the full reality of what he's done) is something that I puzzled at for a while. I'm not sure what this is about, really, but I like it.

Incidentally, since this was brought up on another thread (I'm not sure if it was on this board or the other), the music heard at the Council and in Lothlorien when Boromir goes into his Gondor soliloquoys, is a distinct theme, just orchestrated differently. A hint, perhaps, of something to come?

Incidentally, there is a difference in the cue in Moria when Frodo spots Smeagol and what appears on the album. The only moment I've noticed, other than the appearance of the Hobbit theme at the end of "The Prophecy."

I also like the theme for the Eye of Sauron, heard on the album in "The Shadow of the Past" (although it is not on the screen at the time), that reappears during the Council as Frodo stares at the Ring as everybody argues and when he is running from Boromir, I think. What is that instrument?

One more thing... the music heard in Moria when Gandalf and Frodo have the discussion about Smeagol, pity and getting through dark periods in their lives (a great moment in the film, one which was moved from its very early placement in the book to wonderful effect) is a precursor to the final development of the Hobbit theme as heard in "The Breaking of the Fellowship." It is a shame that this is not on the album as well.

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Really? Then that's the possible Gandalf theme I mentioned. Wouldn't know what Gandalf has to do with the beginning of Amon Hen though. Perhaps it's more dialogue orientated in the Shire scene and refers to animal spies or something. I'll have to watch the film again.

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I wouldn't associate it with Gandalf, mainly due to its latter two appearances in scenes where character's are tempted by the power of the one ring as I say. I think a secondary ring theme is a nice way to class this theme...

As for the Ring calling to Aragorn, in the 5.1 mix the voice sort of travels across the right front soundatsge and into the rears. It calls his name, then "yes my son" as Aragon's hand reaches toward it.

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Incidentally, since this was brought up on another thread (I'm not sure if it was on this board or the other), the music heard at the Council and in Lothlorien when Boromir goes into his Gondor soliloquoys, is a distinct theme, just orchestrated differently. A hint, perhaps, of something to come?

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Twas I who mentioned that in Andre's Khazad Dum thread. It is a beautiful theme in Lothlorien when Boromir speaks of Gondor which I believe is an early version of a possible Gondor theme.

Indeed, whilst mention of Gondor at Rivendell is not underscored by this same theme, it is (like the cue in the Lothlorien scene) horn based, and Boromir speaks of Gondor's serenade or trumpets so I think it's a subtle link. OR, it could be linked to Bormoir's brother and father, a family theme perhaps?

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Originally posted by Dan Brecher:
As for the Ring calling to Aragorn, in the 5.1 mix the voice sort of travels across the right front soundatsge and into the rears. It calls his name, then "yes my son" as Aragon's hand reaches toward it.

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Dan (UK)

Damn it, we need a 3 CD complete set so this sort of "I think I heard this" stuff doesn't happen any more!!!

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Originally posted by Swashbuckler:
Damn it, we need a 3 CD complete set so this sort of "I think I heard this" stuff doesn't happen any more!!!

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...usually when I'm doing something impressive... like... uh... crossing the street...

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...usually when I'm doing something impressive... like... uh... crossing the street...

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Do you carry one of those staff things with the curved blade on the end and swhoosh it up in the air should any passers charge at you?

Dan

I'm hoping New Line will publicaly promote the SE version when the bare bones theatrical cut is released.
Disney SORT of did so with Pearl Harbour announcing both releases at the same time, but I think magazine adds and TV spots for the standard disc should tout November's Platinum release too.

Dan

This was Jackson being interviewed live on TV in New Zealand the day the oscar nominations got announced. He talks about Oscars, the Golden Globes, making the movies, Two Towers post production, aaaaaand the commentary for the expanded cut DVD (which he recorded the day before this interview it would seem).

The Road Goes Ever On and On - but not fast enough!

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
Good interview, and PJ really is a Hobbit.

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I am not sure... to me he looks more like a Dwarf!

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Barefoot, happy, well-fed

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You called?