Sorry to start yet another thread about Fellowship of the Ring, but I just had to use that title. And also, this will be heavy with spoilers, so I guess it's a good thing to have two separate threads.

BIG MAJOR SPOILERS - BIG MAJOR SPOILERS - BIG MAJOR SPOILERS

I've been boiling with anticipation ever since I heard they're going to film LOTR at least three years ago. I also had my doubts, but the more I read, the less doubts I had, and the more excited I became. I had of course to watch it on the opening day, and so I did (actually, a couple of friends had tickets from their job - their whole workgroup went to see it - for the same screening, and they had a spare ticket, so I sat in their row and didn't use the ticket I bought a couple of weeks ago - how many people can say they saw FOTR on the first day and yet have an unused ticket from the same day ).

These guys really know the books. Having Galadriel speak the prologue was pure genius - some might have given it to Gandalf, but the only to important characters in the books who were around the entire time are Elrond and Galadriel - and Galadriel is far older. And showing the map from the books in the prologue was great as well.

The first obvious bit in the score was the Ring theme. An excellent theme, kind of not really leading anywhere, but yet grave. I can't imagine this theme to be possibly used in a positive way, which makes it perfect for the Ring. (It's underrepresented on the CD, by the way).

Cut to the Shire. Jolly innocent music as Gandalf arrives with his cart, singing a song! Gandalf and Frodo (and later Aragorn in particular) are so ALIVE, they're not simple movie characters. Hobbiton - truly real. The mill is there, too. The Hobbit children are there, hoping for a little firework from Gandalf, and this time (unlike in the book), they really get it. And Bag End - huge, for a Hobbit, but nearly too small for Gandalf. As I never doubted, Ian Holm is impressive as Bilbo. When he hugs Gandalf - THAT's a perfect special effect. Bag End looks totally convincing, like a shot from a documentary instead of a fantasy movie.

The conversation between Bilbo and Gandalf after he disappears from his Birthday party: Wonderful. You really have to read The Hobbit to feel with Bilbo, what a poor Hobbit! The bit of Gandalf seemingly growing when he gets angry? It's there. At the end of the scene, Bilbo leaves Bag End singing The Road Goes Ever On and On (I just wish they could have included the full song here).

Here is where things get really different than in the books. Gandalf begins to suspect something and goes to Minas Tirith (we see it, though it isn't named) to do his research. Comes back to Bag End and throws the Ring into the fire to be sure. Both he and Frodo are believably desparate. Sam is great as well (somewhere before this, we see Frodo and Sam coming out of an inn - great way to include the Green Dragon, if just for two seconds).

On their way leaving the Shire, Frodo and Sam run into Merry and Pippin. How they included the chapter title "A Short Cut to Mushrooms" in the dialog here is just so cool! The two younger Hobbits simply follow them though, without much explanation; I hope this is fleshed out in the director's cut on the DVD.

Gandalf comes to Isengard to seek Saruman's council. The music for Isengard employs a constant pounding rhythm (techno-like, I'm tempted to say), a perfect way to reminds us of Saruman's obsession with technology (which Tolkien loathed). This is way more explicit than in the books, we even see Saruman's Palantir. A cool wizard duel follows, without any stupid lightning sfx or other "visual magic".

Meanwhile, the Hobbits make for Bree, chased by the Nazgul (at the beginning, their was quite a bit of noise and whispering in the audience, particularly since - becase the film is so long - they started even before all people were seated. But at the Hobbit's first encounter with the Nazgul, when there's no music, sfx or dialogue, it was dead silent in the theatre). This is drastically shortened - not only are the Old Forest, Tom Bombadil and the Barrow Wights out, it isn't even clear that Bree is already outside the Shire. When the Hobbits don't meet Gandalf at the Prancing Pony, as expected (another story change that cleverly speeds up the plot), they feel really uncomfortable alone among all these Men - something that isn't so clear in the book, actually. Here the Ring slips on Frodo's finger for the first time - the movie's interpretation of the Wraith world is very impressive. The vision is blurred, and we see the huge Eye!

This is getting way too long though, so I'll speed it up. Strider/Aragorn is fantastic, really looking the rather menacing ranger in the beginning. Later on, he brings out the character's self-doubts completely believable and much stronger than in the books. And he also has his moments when he's truly the future king of Gondor.

Weathertop: Much more believable than anything I had imagined, with the ruins of the old tower and all. Again, when Frodo puts on the Ring during the assault by the Nazgul, the interpretation is extremely good. Also a great idea: Representing the Ring's "will" with a whispering voice. This thing clearly has a will of it's own.

Frodo is really badly hurt, and begins to look REALLY horrible on the further way to Rivendell. Arwen appears and exchanges a few great Elvish lines with Aragorn. They decide to have her take Frodo to Rivendell on Asfaloth (yes, the horse's name is mentioned, in an Elvish line). Quite a strong departure from the book, but it mostly works very well, particularly the chase to the ford. My only complaint is that Frodo is robbed of an important point of character development, being carried over the ford rather than resisting the Nazgul himself.

Rivendell: How Elvish can you get! True, Hugo Weaving does easily remind one of Agent Smith, but that's Matrix' fault - he delivers a really good Elrond here. Part of the plot here is advanced by a private discussion between him and Gandalf: Clever idea. Boromir's introduction has him finding a room where the broken sword Narsil is kept, with Aragorn sitting quietly in a corner. Excellent stuff. The Council of Elrond is a great bit of writing as well, departing quite a bit from the book, but perhaps even improving. Boromir is not only openly against destroying the Ring, but also lacks any respect for the ranger Aragorn and isn't pleased at all when he learns of his ancestry. Gimli refuses to trust the Elves in keeping the Ring, which leads to a huge argument, quickly summing up the differences between Elves, Dwarves and Men. The agony in Ian McKellen's face when Frodo says he'll take the Ring is amazing.

The following scene between Frodo and Bilbo is lovely, and Bilbo's greed for the Ring when he sees it perfectly handled. The love scene between Aragorn and Arwen cleverly introduces the mortality/immortality plot and has Aragorn receiving the stone from her that will later lead to him being called Elessar.

When the Fellowship sets out from Rivendell, the Fellowship theme is heard in a bold statement - bold and heroic. I can't wait to see Bilbo at the end of ROTK.

Caradhras: Legolas is walking lightly on the snow, while everyone else is buried knee-deep in it. The voice in the wind is interpretated as spells by Saruman, who summons the coming thunderstorm (I had never thought of attributing this to him, must re-read that chapter).

Moria: Huge! This must really have looked great when it was still inhabited by Dwarves. We get a brief, great glimpse of Gollum here, too. Gimli is devastated at Balin's tomb. The following battle is great - fierce, but not heroic at all. This is a fight for pure survival. The Cave Troll is stunning. Things get even more grim when Frodo is stabbed, Shores elegiac music perfectly accompany the rest of the fight. Flight to the exit, accompanied by really bold statements of the Fellowship theme. The new scene on the stairs adds great tension and does a great job in making the Moria sequence long enough to be satisfying. Gandalf's desparation when he sees the Balrog - wonderful. The Balrog itself is impressive, and BAD! Gandalf's fall is devastating, and the scenes when the Fellowship leaves the mines extremely good. This is one of the bits that really had me crying, particularly because of Frodo's totally believable despair. We get to see Kheled-zaram in the background, and it even seems like a bit has been cut out here, so perhaps this will be longer on the DVD as well.

Lothlorien: Creepy, actually. Galadriel in particular. The visual bits when Frodo offer her the Ring are very surprising, but work very well. Definitely one of (?) the most powerful Elves in Middle Earth.

Anduin: Yes, this is Anduin. Not some river in New Zealand. The Pillars of Argonath (sp?) are gigantic. Tol Brandir is absolutely perfect as well. No idea how much of this is CGI and how much real scenery from New Zealand, but Middle Earth has impressively become alive.

Assaulted by Boromir, Frodo escapes and finds the seat at the top of Amon Hen. Excellently handled as well, and once again we see the terrifying Eye. Frodo meeting Aragorn once again is a rather strong departure from the books, but works perfectly (just a pity that Aragorn's indecision doesn't play too large a role this time).

Saruman's Uruk-Hai appear, with the White Hand painted on their faces! Another sequence of gritty fight scenes, again nothing heroic, but a desparate attempt to defend the Fellowship. Boromir's death never really touched me in the books, but in the movie, it's very moving. If this and the solemn statement of the Fellowship theme doesn't make you cry, than there's no helping you. Think the ending of Empire Strikes Back is a cliffhanger? It doesn't hang very deep in comparison. I can't even imagine how downcasting the end of TTT will be.

So yes, it is different from anything else, as not only the scenery, but particularly the characters seem absolutely real. Particularly Wood, McKellen, Mortensen and Holm did an outstanding job portraying their roles. Script and direction were everything one could wish for, and more. The score worked very well in the movie, and while the CD is fine, we really need a full release - among others, there's a fantastic choral cue in the Moria sequence that's different from anything on the album. The effects were awesome, also because most of them blended in perfectly without drawing attention to themselves.

Marian,

When we first see Gandalf, he is also singing The Road Goes ever On and On. I didn't notice that until my second viewing, but it was a neat little discovery.

Never EVER been to a movie with that happening. you hardly ever see an audience pay rapt attention to a film this long.

Personally, I could have easily sat through all three films, I was that entranced by everything I was seeing. It is very hard to not try to compare this to the books, because the books give you so much detail, but seeing everything come to life was great.

The entire Moria sequence is amazing.

did anyone else get an Austin Powers Goldmember teaser trailer before the film?

And before anyone bothers to ask: George S. Clinton did a new arrangement of "Dr. Evil" by They Might Be Giants, and "Soul Bassa Nova" by Quincy Jones. It was recorded at the Newman Scoring Stage at Fox a few weeks back.

Dan

I might be burned at the stake for saying this, but Lord of the Rings was OK. (ducking the arrows)

I'll tell you why: if I'm going to be invested in these characters for a long time (I guess nine hours by the time the third movie is done), I needed a reason to say "NO! It can't end yet! These characters were awesome!" INstead, I just said, "Well, it should be fun next Christmas."

Please, please don't get me wrong. I enjoyed my 175 minutes. Everyone here has talked about the scene in the Dwarf Ciy; that was my favorite too! Just nonstop fun and action. That's the kind of movie I expected this to be.

I should also tell you that I have not read the Ring books. I read The Hobbit years ago, and never thought to pick up the next three. That's why I know that readers of the books will enjoy this film a lot more than those of us who never cracked open the cover.

Allow me to give you a couple of examples, and when I refer to characters other than Frodo, Sam, Gandalf or Bilbo, I'm going to use the actors' names to avoid further embarrassment.

1. I wanted to know how much owning the ring tortured Frodo. Just seeing the images he saw when he put it on and the voices calling to him weren't enough for me. He needed a couple of scenes that said "I wish this ring never existed!" Now I know he says it right before he crosses the river, but by then it was too late for me. WHY WAS HE ON THIS QUEST?? Was it because Gandalf told him to? Or halfway through, was it because the Elf Queen showed him that bad things would happen if he turned back? I think Frodo needed a reason of his own to share with us.

2. I needed to get more excited about this Fellowship. I am sure in the book it gives good background on why all of the guys, other than the three Hobbit friends, took on the journey.

3. Why was Aragon afraid to become king? That seemed like a great plotline. Maybe in the next film.

So you see, this is why Harry Potter was a more enjoyable movie for me. I got involved in the characters right away, and I felt for Harry when he saw his parents in the mirror. I only felt bad that Gandalf died because it was Ian McKellan and I knew he wouldn't be in the next film (unless he pulls a Ben Kenobi).

Both films were equal on music, set design, and visual effects. LotR had better cinematography.

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Originally posted by jeffy:
WHY WAS HE ON THIS QUEST?? Was it because Gandalf told him to? Or halfway through, was it because the Elf Queen showed him that bad things would happen if he turned back? I think Frodo needed a reason of his own to share with us.

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Gandalf told him to take the Ring out of the Shire (a decision that's completely left to Frodo in the book, by the way), but he certainly never told him to go on in Rivendell (just note the marvellously hurt look on his face when Frodo volunteers). At the point when they come to Lothlorien, Frodo already is the official ringbearer, so it's not Galadriels decision, either.

In the book, Frodo simply volunteers at the Council of Elrond without knowing why he does it himself. I'd say that's impossible to translate to the film any better than they did it. Basically, it's simply that he's "meant" to do it. But interestingly, while watching the film, I wondered for the first time if it's not in fact that he can't simply leave the Ring behind.

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2. I needed to get more excited about this Fellowship. I am sure in the book it gives good background on why all of the guys, other than the three Hobbit friends, took on the journey.

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Gimli (the Dwarf) and Legolas (the Elf) have more "page time" in the book. Aragorn and Boromir on the other hand were incredibly detailed in the movie - one of the points I still marvel at is that I don't think I've ever seen a movie (fantasy or not) with characters that seem as real as in FOTR. I was never moved by Boromir's death as much when reading the book as I was in the film.

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3. Why was Aragon afraid to become king? That seemed like a great plotline. Maybe in the next film.

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Well, for one thing, his ancestors did some pretty bad things. And then there's the point that his line had been living in exile for hundreds of years. None of them decided to return and reclaim his kingdom. It's up to Aragorn to do this, and being a king is quite a bit of responsibility (particularly in times of a Ring war ). And as you can see in Boromir's initial reaction, not everyone is too pleased about it. Claiming the kingdom means taking over the rulership from the Stewart (Boromir's father).

In addition to that, in the book, the Fellowship breaks more suddenly. When Boromir assaults Frodo, Frodo escapes and Sam is the only one to meet him. Unlike in the movie, Aragorn only realizes that he's gone when he sees the missing boat, and feels that all of his decisions have failed. Not exactly something that encourages you to rule a kingdom like Gondor.

But, a lot of your comments come from what you read in the book. There's very little to back up what we saw in the film. I am still holding firm to the fact that this film was very enjoyable, but did not give me chills. I am anxious for the next chapter, but it's not keeping me up nights.

And now for a film score question....two or three times, the score featured an ominous theme for the ring (I think) that sounded A LOT like "Dies Irae." I'm surprised no one commented on this, or did I miss it. I loved that theme, because Dies Irae fits in perfectly with the ring's destiny.

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(just note the marvellously hurt look on his face when Frodo volunteers)

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Hmm. Hurt? No, as none would step forward to take on the deadly task - but instead bicker amongst themselves - out of the fray comes this angelic voice to take up the challenge. Being more concerned with the future of Middle Earth rather than the individual glory of Men, Elf and Dwarf, Gandalf's/McKellan's response seems more akin to taking in a breath of heavenly air - as though a prayer were answered. There is more love in it that sigh than hurt I think.

McKellan's performance was remarkable...to imbue such a range of humanity in, of all stock characters, a wizard. His speech to Frodo in Moria concerning the value of pity - with Shore's plangent music beneath - was amongst the most moving in the film.

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Originally posted by SPQR:
There is more love in it that sigh than hurt I think.

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Both, probably. He is relieved that someone accepts the task, but at the same time, he pities him.

Nicolai: What's different is that Gandalf comes back to the Shire and is relieved when at first there are no letters on the hot Ring. In the book, he states that he didn't know it is the One Ring, but that he didn't have any doubt about it anymore.

As for Ian Holm, of course he's perfect. I'd love to see them make a Hobbit movie with him. And I can't wait to see him again in ROTK. Hmm, remember that first picture of Bilbo in Rivendell that got published on the web? I can't remember seeing this in the movie. I guess there's some really great stuff yet to come on the DVDs. It also seemed like the Kheled-zaram (sp?) sequence might be in the Director's Cut, there was a rather strong cut at that point in the film (where you see the lake only in the distance).

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
Nicolai: What's different is that Gandalf comes back to the Shire and is relieved when at first there are no letters on the hot Ring. In the book, he states that he didn't know it is the One Ring, but that he didn't have any doubt about it anymore.

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But just as in the book, he throws it into the fire to find out whether or not it is in fact the one ring. The scene wasn't particularly different from the book.

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As for Ian Holm, of course he's perfect. I'd love to see them make a Hobbit movie with him.

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Originally posted by Nicolai P. Zwar:
Wouldn't that be just great? If LOTR does well enough so that they'd do the "Hobbit" prologue as a sequel? Oh boy oh boy oh boy!

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I think that would be great indeed! But wouldn't Holm be just a bit too old at that point to play the role?

Dan

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Originally posted by Nicolai P. Zwar:
But just as in the book, he throws it into the fire to find out whether or not it is in fact the one ring. The scene wasn't particularly different from the book.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
Yes it is! The Gandalf in the book wouldn't be relieved when Frodo doesn't see the letters at first, just confused. The book Gandalf is 100% sure that Frodo has the master Ring, while the film Gandalf is still hoping that he might be wrong.

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It's all a matter of interpretation, I suppose; I thought McKellan did look confused at that point.

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I think that would be great indeed! But wouldn't [Ian] Holm be just a bit too old at that point to play the role?

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aw, who cares anymore?

I 'hear' that 'they' are going to digitally alter Anthony Hopkins to make him look younger for Red Dragon.