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      Movie Soundtracks
      Original vs. Re-recordings

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    Topic:   Original vs. Re-recordings

     Hector J. Guzman
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    Sometimes the re-recordings are better than the original recordings, or perhaps some is fond of a re-recording that he or she likes it better than an original recordings. There's also people that like the original recordings for reasons like, they're like the composer intended it to sound, though many times this is not true. Which are your favorite scores that the re-recording is better than the original, or that you may like it as much than the original.

    NP. Star Wars(re-recording by
    Charles Gerhardt)

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    posted 12-07-2001 03:26 PM PT (US)     

     TV's Frank
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    Well, for starters, Charles Gerhardt was a master at, somehow through his conducting, improving on the original film score recordings. For many years, Gerhardt's version of the RETURN OF THE JEDI score was my prefered listening choice over Williams' original recording. Gerhardt just gave the music more... ooomph.

    I also really enjoy Silva's re-recordings of Barry's scores for WALKABOUT and THE LAST VALLEY. The orchestra and choir performances are top-notch, full of depth and passion.

    And Silva did a good job with their suite from Goldsmith's UNDER FIRE on their 2-CD set of his music. They also nailed the overture for GREAT TRAIN ROBBERY.

    And most surprising of all is how much Joel McNeely's re-recording of JAWS puts to shame the original score tracks. Now this may be the fault of the poor sound quality on the Decca release, but the score as heard in the re-recording has so much power in the brass, a grand sweep, and expert precision in the busy sections. The one cue he missed on is "Father and Son". I made my own ultimate JAWS album, mixing in cues from the 1975 recording, the original tracks (only "Father and Son") and McNeely's recording.

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    posted 12-07-2001 04:05 PM PT (US)     

     Ken S
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    It's funny...

    I love John Williams' original score for SPACECAMP, but still ONLY the Cincinnati Pops re-recording of the End Title sends shivers in my spine.

    I simply adore John Williams' original score for FAMILY PLOT, and yet ONLY the Utah Symphony Orchestra re-recording (with faster tempo) makes me to soar.

    I like all the flying cues on John Williams' original score for HOOK (especially the End Title), but ONLY the Boston Pops expanded re-recording of the End Title has the power to get me breathless.

    And I do enjoy all the original and lesser-original versions on John Williams' "Ewok Celebration ('83)" for RETURN OF THE JEDI, and yet ONLY the National Philharmonic instrumental re-recording of it makes me wanting to dance wildly around my flat.

    ...Thus Spoketh Kenzuhustra who claims to prefer the ACTUAL movie music...

    KEN

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    posted 12-07-2001 05:34 PM PT (US)     

     Dinko
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    I usually prefer originals.

    I find rerecordings interesting to hear, listen or have. But most of the time, I find the originals to be superior, performance-wise, which is what matters most to me, besides the music itself. There are rerecordings which I find are superior to originals, but not that many.

    My only regret with many originals, is their sound. Either because the composer did not have sufficient budget to afford a good studio and good engineer, or mostly, because the music was recorded pre-1980, and no matter how much it is remastered, it cannot sound like a new recording, be it digital or analog.

    NP: Willow *****/*****

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    posted 12-07-2001 06:24 PM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
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    I'm with Dinko and usually would take preference of the original over a re-recording. Still, I've found plenty of new performances that I feel provide more listening pleasure then the originals.

    The disc By Request... The Best of John Williams and the Boston Pops has some great performances, and I enjoy their rendition of the "Imperial March" more than that of the OST recording! ( )

    The couple of E. W. Korngold re-recordings done by the Utah Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Varujan Kojian in the 1980s are fantastic things. I must admit I haven't heard the original recordings, but I feel I don't need to, since the re-recordings are so well done.

    I really like most of the stuff on Jerry's Film Music disc. I think Papillon and A Patch of Blue are two small pieces that, while good on the original recordings, are even more fantastic with the different arrangements and a supurb reading by the London Symphony Orchestra. Some other pieces are highly disappointing, like Wind and the Lion and Star Trek, but I think that the very few negatives on the disc are greatly offset by the addictive "TV Themes" medley.

    I find that the Goldsmith Patton/Tora! Tora! Tora! re-recording with the RSNO provides a better listening experience then the FSM releases of the original tracks. Even though the volume levels thoughout the Varese disc are a bit strange, the performance is generally strong and very enjoyable.

    [Message edited by jonathan_little on 12-07-2001]

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    posted 12-07-2001 09:00 PM PT (US)     

     SCimmerian
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    Well it has to be any of the Gerhardt recordings. But the one that has the the best performance over the original by far is THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK; Gerhardt/National Philharmonic. I really like Debney/RSNO version of THE 7th VOYAGE OF SINBAD and of course the McNeely VERTIGO and JAWS. Rozsa rerecorings of BEN-HUR and QUO VADIS with the National Philharmonic and the Royal Philharmonic are just Awesome. Broughton version of Rozsa's INVANHOE is super stuff indeed and his version of JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS is spectacular. Talos is fantastic.The Sederes MAGNIFICENT SEVEN is quite wonderful but does not beat the original performance.NOw some one please do a complete rerecording of Kapers's MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY! I will be a very happy camper.

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    posted 12-07-2001 10:48 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    I agree with what has been said: Nothing wrong with re-recordings, but most aren't too good.

    The Imperial March on the Star Wars Trilogy album (with the Skywalker Symphony orchestra) is my favourite rendition, but I STILL haven't heard the Gerhardt recording. Unfortunately, the Skywalker disc has Shawn Murphy's trademark sound "quality".

    Funny enough, Kojian's recording of Sea Hawk is FASTER than the original, although usually the historical recordings are faster than today's interpretations.

    Goldsmith's & the LSO's performances of Blue Max, Planet of the Apes and particularly Supergirl in London earlier this year all make the original recordings pale in comparison. Likewise, Barnaby Jones was better than on the Suites & Themes compilation. Great Train Robbery was a little different in tempo from the original - not better, but not worse, either.

    Of course, Williams' recording of the Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra for the Spielberg/Williams Collaboration album is absolutely stunning.

    NP: A Muppet Christmas Album (self-made compilation)

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    posted 12-08-2001 12:05 AM PT (US)     

     juha
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    First of all I don't have anything against re-recordings if they remain as true as possible to the originals and are well rehearsed with the orchestra. However sometimes the original manuscripts are lost so the reconstruction has to be done usually by ear. To mention few, Raise the Titanic, Ivanhoe and Julius Caesar are my favorite re-recordings. But I still prefer the originals.

    Juha

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    posted 12-08-2001 12:42 AM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    the Varese re-recording of Last of the Mohicans is light years better than the OST CD (though the solo fiddle stuff could be more fluid).

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    posted 12-08-2001 01:43 AM PT (US)     

     Jeron
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    quote:
    Originally posted by JJH:
    the Varese re-recording of [b]Last of the Mohicans is light years better than the OST CD (though the solo fiddle stuff could be more fluid).[/B]

    JJ, you hit the Mohican right on the head.

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    posted 12-08-2001 03:03 AM PT (US)     

     El Cid
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    The E.T. re-recording (i.e. the original "soundtrack" album) is superior to the OST, except for sound.

    Unfortunately the release of the "expanded" OST buried the original album.


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    posted 12-08-2001 04:10 AM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    note to Jeron:


    I'm always right.

    NP -- Project X, Horner

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    posted 12-08-2001 11:45 AM PT (US)     

     SFT
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    El Cid, you can't be serious!?

    SFT

    NP: Sisters, Bernard Herrmann *****/*****

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    posted 12-08-2001 12:15 PM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
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    Don't worry, we've got the Super-Duper release of E.T. coming soon!

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    posted 12-08-2001 08:22 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    I've always maintained that even though he took the quirkier aspects of the original orchestrations out and streamlined the re-record, that Laurie Johnson's re-record of First Men in the Moon took a likeable original and turned it into a masterpiece.

    There are other examples but this is the quintessential one I use to show people that I am aware that a good re-recording can top an original. In general, most of the re-records have been flops.

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    posted 12-08-2001 08:33 PM PT (US)     

     Dinko
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    quote:
    Originally posted by Lou Goldberg:
    I've always maintained that even though he took the quirkier aspects of the original orchestrations out and streamlined the re-record, that Laurie Johnson's re-record of First Men in the Moon took a likeable original and turned it into a masterpiece.

    Are you talking about that cheap parody of the 1960's which more like a kid's movie than Well's book?

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    posted 12-09-2001 06:28 AM PT (US)     

     Nicolai P. Zwar
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    I remember a time when many film score re-recordings were almost always (with a few notable exceptions) tastelessly done compilations with sticky and gooey versions of what was heard in the movie; yuck. But today, that's fortunately no longer the case. To be sure, these sticky and gooey compilations still exist, but they have the field no longer to themselves. There are many worthwile re-recordings out there, in some cases perhaps better than the OST recording, in other cases maybe not quite as splendid, but still worthwile. This is not a "versus" question. It is a question that needs to be asked for each re-recording of a film score anew. It also depends on what you expect from a particular re-recording. Let's say one thing straight away: if you want a recording of a film score to sound exactly like the soundtrack recording, get the soundtrack recording. It's as simple as that. All re-recordings sound different in one way or another. It is not possible for two recordings to sound alike. I mean, every violinist of the world has his (or of course her) own unique voice. Now in an orchestra you have sometimes dozens of violinists, plus different brass players, different percussionists, different woodwind players, and so on, and so on. Of course every orchestra in the world has its own unique sound, every orchestra in the world has its own unique tradition of performing and playing. And this is just one of the many aspects often different about a re-recording. Also affecting the outcome of a particular recording is of course the studio or hall where the recording was made, the way it is engineered, not too mention that the music is sometimes performed by a completely different conductor. So don't ever expect a re-recording to sound like the original soundtrack recording, don't ever expect a re-recording to be a sonically improved substitute for the original recording. You will be disappointed if that's what you are looking for in a recording. Always. I'm saying this because it seems to me that a very big portion (certainly not all though) of the bitching aimed at certain re-recordings comes from people who are just disappointed when they suddenly realize that one performance of a certain score does not sound like another performance of the same score.

    Some film music aficionados always prefer the OST recording. Out of principle. I think that's fine. But let's not overlook the fact that this attitude isn't based on musical reasons, but perhaps on a sentimental or nostalgic attachment to a certain recording or movie, or it stems from the collector's mentality to collect and own actual OST recordings, not unlike a stamp collector is usually more concerned with the origin and originality of a certain stamp, and not so much about the picture that's actually on there. It's fine to have a collector's mentality, it's also fine to always prefer the OST recording, but again: let's make it clear that the reasons for this are not musical reasons. One may argue that film music is not concert music, and this is certainly true, but the moment it comes as a CD into my CD player it has to hold up as music first and foremost, so a musical examination of the music is justified as well. I have many film scores in my collection, OSTs or re-recordings, to films which I have never seen (and sometimes I have no intention of ever watching). So why should I care if it sounds like the OST if I've never even seen the movie? I think it's a valid point of view to prefer OST recordings just because they are OST recordings, but again: this preference is not based on musical reasons. It cannot be.

    For example: the original film performance of Rozsa's The Golden Voyage of Sindbad is simply underpowered and bad. If Intrada would give this the Excalibur/Broughton/Sinfonia of London treatment I'm sure we'd get a much more splendid performance, one which would do the music much more justice. But a collector of Rozsa OSTs would nevertheless still want to add this recording to his collection, even if he is very pleased with the re-recording. It's the recording tied to the film. It's the recording glued to the images on screen. The original soundtrack recording is usually also an important historical document, and as such it is always good when they are preserved and released. Often it is the composer's own only recording of a score. But let's not overlook the fact just because a composer has conducted his own work doesn't mean by default that it is the best or most truthful performance of the score, far from it. It does mean, however, that it is already of interest for no other reason than that it is the OST. So the call for OST recordings isn't always grounded in the wish for the best performance, but is pretty much a self-contained desire for OSTs. (That's also part of what to some collectors collecting collecting is about.)

    Then there is the question sometimes about "definitive" performances. Now in my opinion it is a futile quest to go for a "definitive" performance in orchestral music. If a piece of music is worth anything at all, it is worth to be performed and re-performed, to be interpreted and re-interpreted. To claim of any one performance that it is the definitive performance, that all other performances must fall short because it is the etched in stone final word about this music that can be spoken, means to suffocate the music. It means to kill it. It means there cannot be much to the music if it can be looked at only in one way from one side.

    But how so, some may ask? After all, aren't we out of the 19th century, when certain romantic conductors bend and twisted the music to their own liking and called it "interpreting" the music when they simply did with it whatever they wanted? Yes, we are. At the very latest since Toscanini we know what a good conductor should be about. If you know anything about performances of orchestral music, you know that the main intent of a good conductor is to do the justice to the music he is conducting. A good conductor is supposed to know the score, he should be faithful to the composer's intentions, a good conductor is supposed to realize the printed score to the best of his possibilities. In short, a good conductor must be truthful to the music. That's the bottom line. That's what conducting is about. But what is sometimes overlooked is that there is more than one way of being truthful to the score. In other words, two recordings of the very same piece of music can sound vastly different, yet they can both be truthful to the music, they can both be absolutely faithful, they can both have the unqualified approval of the composer himself.

    A recording of a music score is not unlike an acoustical photograph. For the sake of an analogy here, let's say a photograph of a tree. Take an oak tree on a meadow. You can make a stunning photograph of the tree, a photograph that absolutely captures the essence of the tree, its branches, its shadows, its many facets, yet it is still just one photograph of the tree. Would you really say that no one else could ever take a faithful picture of the tree again? Couldn't somebody else come along and shoot a picture totally different from yours, yet in its own way be just as faithful to the tree, just as faithful to its many facets? One of the reasons why so many conductors like to conduct a Beethoven symphony cycle is because these symphonies are like diamonds: depending on which light you shine on them they sparkle and sprinkle in different ways. A good conductor let's the music reveal its own meaning, a good conductor lets the music shine, and a good conductor knows that there's more than one way to shine. And serious Beethoven aficionados will usually have multiple recordings – vastly different recordings – of all symphonies at home, because there is more than one way to let the music shine. Now one might object that a film score is not a Beethoven symphony to be sure and is unlikely to have as many facets -- quite true -- but we're not talking about recording Out of Africa eighty times here, something I admit would be silly. The best of film scores do hold up well enough on their own to warrant more than just one recording.

    There may be good re-recordings or bad ones, but it's not a question of re-recordings being something to be of lesser interest to begin with. Let's be glad that there are re-recordings, and not just as substitutes in lack of original soundtrack recordings but as full fledged and valuable interpretations of the music. Poor is the music that can only be performed in one way.

    Of course, as I've said, sometimes one is so used to hearing an OST recording from watching the movie many times, and one wants the OST recording. Fine. But then one should get the OST recording, and not a re-recording. One may criticize a re-recording for falling short, for not doing justice to the music, that's one thing, but it is unfair to criticize a re-recording for not being something it cannot be: the OST recording.

    Of the re-recording CDs I have that top the OST releases I have as well, McNeely's recording of Herrmann's Vertigo and Williams' Jaws (both on Varese Sarabande) come to mind right away, and certainly Stromberg's take on Steiner's King Kong (Marco Polo) belongs into this category. They are definitively surpassing the OST CDs out there. There are a lot of other re-recordings I like, too, though they don't always "top" the original. Of course some re-recordings don't quite hit the mark. I was rather disappointed in the much lauded London Symphony Orchestra recording conducted by Goldsmith (Teldec); I've only sampled the disc so far and haven't heard all of it, but some of the arrangements sounded too glossy and much too sweet, as if Goldsmith had removed all the edge of these pieces. May be fine for a concert performance, but how well does it hold up at home? From what I've heard I prefer Frontiers as Goldsmith anthology.


    NP: Bernard Herrmann The Snows of Kilimanjaro
    Moscow Symphony Orchestra/Stromberg (Marco Polo)

    [Message edited by Nicolai P. Zwar on 12-09-2001]

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    posted 12-09-2001 06:29 AM PT (US)     

     joan hue
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    Nicolai, can you hear my applause way over here in Washington
    State? Wow, I’m so very impressed with what you wrote about
    interpreting music while remaining “truthful” to the composer. In fact,
    your thesis made me ponder the way I listen to music, and you make
    sense. Your points are well taken and well supported. (And you
    seem to acknowledge the idea that we are all going to like some
    conductors’ interpretations of pieces better than other interpretations.)
    I also really enjoy your illuminating tree analogy.

    May I suggest that you perhaps consider the possibility of submitting
    the ideas in this article to a film music magazine for publication?
    Clap, Clap, Clap.

    NP *61

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    posted 12-09-2001 08:30 AM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    Yes, that was good, Nicolai. And to answer Hector's original question, I agree with some of you others here about Gerhardt. I much prefer his handling of David Raksin's magnificent Forever Amber than the original Newman-conducted score. Gerhardt toned down the famous Newman strings sound and took it a shade slower, allowing all the musical nuances to be savoured in a powerful, beautifully recorded work. Pity it's only 25 mins long.

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    posted 12-09-2001 09:28 AM PT (US)     

     Spicy Ramen
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    I would say Crimson Tide from the Big Picture compilation would be my favorite rerecording. They added a male chorus and brass(If I recall correct, there wasn't any in the orginal). Some people hated the new recording, But I liked it.

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    posted 12-09-2001 09:35 AM PT (US)     

     Swashbuckler
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    Nicolai usually hits the nail right on the head... and he certainly has here. I was planning, while reading the thread, to make a few points, but he made them all, and a few I hadn't thought of yet.

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    posted 12-10-2001 09:17 AM PT (US)     

     Hector J. Guzman
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    Bravo Nicolai!
    That's exactly how I feel. But, of course, I'm not good with words, but you're right on the money.

    One example I have is of the only recording there is of the score from The Little Mermaid. The score by Alan Menken is great, but I feel the recording, even if this is the only one I've heard, ikt still could sound better. ASgain, that's only my opinion.

    NP. Steiner's GONE WITH THE WIND(a recording by Charles Gerhardt)

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    posted 12-10-2001 11:52 AM PT (US)     

     perfpitch
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    Uhhh, Graham, sorry to shoot down your theory, but the RCA album of FOREVER AMBER (with the inevitable LAURA and THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL, RCA 1490-2-RG), while it looks like part of the Gerhardt-conducted "Classic Film Scores" series, was actually conducted by David Raksin, himself.

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    posted 12-11-2001 10:34 AM PT (US)     

     mauricei
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    Well, I personally own one compilation by Silva entitled ADVENTURE
    and I found the quality and similarity to the original simply estonishing.

    So personally if all re-recordings are of this caliber, who cares.
    If you are into nostalgy, this may be a big problem though.

    Cheers, Maurice.

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    posted 12-11-2001 11:11 AM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    Re. FOREVER AMBER: That's right, perfpitch. I made the very same mistake about a year ago here, and got hauled over the coals for it. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson!

    So, if I can squirm out of this one, let me just say that I prefer David Raksin's suite on the Gerhardt disc to the original Newman-conducted score. Phew, hope I haven't made any new errors in that statement!

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    posted 12-11-2001 01:28 PM PT (US)     
     

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