-
Message Boards

Movie Soundtracks
Harry's Wondrous Themes
Archive of old forum. No more postings.
Please visit our new forum, The MovieMusic Lobby, to post new topics.
Author
Topic: Harry's Wondrous Themes

Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

After listening to the score over and over again, and seeing the movie a second time today, I wanted to write a review of the score. But then I found out that I still haven't discovered enough of it to do this. Williams obviously thought a lot about what themes to write, more than he usually does.Here's what I've found so far:
- Hedwig's Theme
At least it seems that this refers to the main theme, although the concert piece uses other themes as well. It's the most obvious theme, and the one that's easily identified in key moments of the film. However, it seems to be NO theme for Harry (or Hedwig, for that matter). Heard in two versions, the "real" version with the ending turned "upside down", and the more familiar concert version, which shows up only a couple of times. - Harry's Theme #1
Heard first on the CD in Harry's Wondrous World, the first theme after Hedwig's Theme, which starts the cue. The first half is very broad, while the second half is rather jumpy and often used in the underscore for the Hogwarts scenes. Also transformed into fanfares. It seems to represent Harry "as a person". - Harry's Theme #2
Also heard in Harry's Wondrous World, accompanied by decending woodwinds after the other Harry theme. It ALSO represents Harry, but mainly is used as a "family theme": When Harry sees his parents in the mirror, this theme is used instead of the #1 theme. At the end of the film, when they're entering the Hogwarts Express, and Harry says it's not really going home (implying that he considers Hogwarts his real home), the family theme is used as well, with more powerful repetition when the Hogwarts castle is seen in the background. Very clever, if you ask me. The "main theme" (Hedwig's theme) is only used at the very end of this piece. - The Hogwarts Theme
Featured most prominently on the CD in Hogwarts Forever!, it's used throughout the score, particularly as a fanfare at the beginning of the Quidditch track. From it's use in the film, it could be that it represents not Hogwarts, but only the Gryffindor house. It's not really clear, I think. - The Philosopher's Stone's Theme
A three-note theme that is first heard when Hagrid takes the Stone from the vault at Gringotts, though curiously it starts a couple of seconds before this, just when the pile of gold in Harry's vault is shown. Shows up a few times in the score, but returns most prominently in the finale, particularly when Harry stands in front of the mirror and finds the Stone in his pocket (and also at the end, when Voldemort is defeated and Harry still has the Stone). The theme doesn't seem to represent the Sorcerer's Stone per se, but its part in the plot (i.e. it only shows it's negative side). It's often used as the "bad theme", but it's not Voldemort's theme. - Voldemort's Theme
Heard when Harry finds Voldemort in the forest (not on the CD) and in The Face of Voldemort at about 2:00. Not as menacing as the Sorcerer's Stone theme, but darker and more brooding, and also used in a "violent" way. - Flying Theme (part 1 & 2)
These are only heard in Mr. Longbottom Flies, The Quidditch Match and Hedwig's Theme, even though they don't have that soaring sound Williams usually employs for his flying themes. Part 1 is mostly an ostinato, while part 2 is a broad string melody, with a desparate edge. This part doesn't even show up in the Quidditch track, I think, so it's only appearance in the film (except for the end credits) is when Harry follows Malfoy during the first flying lesson (which is a shame, since it's one of Williams best themes)
Those are all the recurring themes I found so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are more. If someone has additions or corrections, bring them on!
And I hope we'll see a 2CD version in the near future. The album is a good representation of the score, but there are also several good cues in the film that didn't make it on the CD, like the Diagon Alley music or the medieval sounding piece when Harry, Ron, Hermione and Draco Malfoy get detention, plus all of the music for the forest sequence.
posted 12-02-2001 02:25 PM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Oscar® Winner

Potter, Potter, Potter!!!--Brian (HPA)
NP: The Cupboard under the Stairs
posted 12-02-2001 03:42 PM PT (US) 
Hasta
Oscar® Winner

Pooper, Pooper, Pooper!Yes, that's right, Harry Potter should have been called Harry Pooper, because it smelled like my poop.
Thanks for listening.
posted 12-02-2001 04:01 PM PT (US) 
SPQR

Oscar® Winner

Frankly, the 70 + odd minutes we've already be given is about 30 minutes more than I really care to hear. B..b...b...b...boring.
posted 12-02-2001 05:13 PM PT (US) 
Hasta
Oscar® Winner

SPQR, I couldn't have said it better myself! (except for what I said right above you)
posted 12-02-2001 05:23 PM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

Uhm...the Harry Potter criticism thread is elsewhere. Go there if you have nothing else to say about the score.
posted 12-02-2001 06:05 PM PT (US) 
Vladimir
Oscar® Winner

Marian I agree i LOVE the score!!! I think it would be great for a 2cd release. I still can't understand why people don't like this score???
Mattposted 12-02-2001 06:12 PM PT (US) 
Hasta
Oscar® Winner

DON'T CENSOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted 12-02-2001 06:17 PM PT (US) 
Tim_P

Oscar® Winner

Poor Marian- I feel sorry for you- writing so much on the themes of Harry Potter and then getting a bunch of stupid replies. And although I agree with everything that you wrote, I must also go with the flow:Whoopie Whoopie Poopie Butt!!

Tim
NP: Harry Potterposted 12-02-2001 06:44 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Tim_P:
Poor Marian- I feel sorry for you- writing so much on the themes of Harry Potter and then getting a bunch of stupid replies.Su casa es mi casa. Feel the apathy.
posted 12-02-2001 08:21 PM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Oscar® Winner

Ok, who dares suffer the wrath of the Lord Brian!!!!::Everyone holds their breath::
I thought so!
--Brian
NP: Potter Forever!
posted 12-02-2001 10:13 PM PT (US) 
Camillu

Oscar® Winner

I know you can't include everything on the CD, but when I saw the film I liked the eeerie forbidden forest music, which is sadly missing.Otherwise, a very good CD of music in my opinion. Worked well in the film too.
posted 12-02-2001 11:38 PM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Crono/Kyp:
Ok, who dares suffer the wrath of the Lord Brian!!!!I'd say it's time for some Crucio spells...

NP: Starship Troopers expanded (Basil Poledouris)
posted 12-03-2001 02:28 AM PT (US) 
John Zimmer

Oscar® Winner

Come ye Potter fans!!! Let us vanquish the evil does!!!Np: Harry Potter
Jz
posted 12-03-2001 06:04 AM PT (US) 
Quill
Oscar® Winner

Come on Marian--what did you expect with topic title like that? Even though my opinion of the score is not as low as Hasta's, but in no way glorifies the score, I guess I cannot comment on your breakdown of the themes.Besides, I don't think I would last long against Brian's wrath.

posted 12-03-2001 08:07 AM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by John Zimmer:
Come ye Potter fans!!! Let us vanquish the evil does!!!Np: Harry Potter
Jz
I'm down!!
--Harry Potter
NP: My CD
posted 12-03-2001 10:50 AM PT (US) 
Hasta
Oscar® Winner

My opinion of the score isn't REALLY that low (***/*****), I just like to have fun and make fun of it.Why? Because it was a disappointment for me, and I'm sad I cannot enjoy it like some other people.

[Message edited by Hasta on 12-03-2001]
posted 12-03-2001 11:59 AM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Oscar® Winner

Guess not.--Harry Potter
NP: South Park
posted 12-03-2001 04:47 PM PT (US) 
Hasta
Oscar® Winner

From Variety's Fellowship of the Ring review: "Howard Shore has composed two hours of music that is constantly supportive, creative and complementary to the action. As such, it represents an object lesson that handily points up how unnecessarily intrusive and insufferably distracting John Williams' work is in "Harry Potter."YAY!
posted 12-04-2001 05:07 AM PT (US) 
John Zimmer

Oscar® Winner

I'm confused what is Hogwarts theme is it the theme that is performed in the start of track nine? Or is the theme with the six stacato notes like in the trailers?I'm not sure....
Jz
posted 12-04-2001 05:42 AM PT (US) 
James

Oscar® Winner

Marian,Is the Voldemort theme you're referring to the one that also shows up in "The Face of Voldemort" at about 1:55 (and then other points later in that cue)? It also pops up in "The Quidditch Match," and perhaps some other places I'm not remembering now. But I do think it was also in the forest scene you're referring to.
Just trying to get my themes straight.
Kirk
posted 12-04-2001 06:16 AM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

Right, James. I just noticed myself that it pops up during the Quidditch music (without a doubt when *** (don't want to spoil it for those who haven't seen/read it yet) is hexing Harry's broomstick).John: Yes, the one at the start of track #9. I've seen another review that also refers to it as the Gryffindor theme, so perhaps it's really that. What made me curious is that that review talks about ANOTHER theme for Hogwarts, perhaps something I haven't found yet?
Plus, I noticed that the "ostinato theme" which I called "Flying Theme Part 1" appears in Visit to the Zoo, so it can't be a Flying theme after all. Perhaps a Slytherin theme, or an unspecific baddy theme (like a counterpart for "Hedwig's Theme"; after all, it even appears as a secondary theme in the Hedwig-based Prologue). Guess I won't find out until I see the movie again (how many months until the DVD comes out??)
posted 12-04-2001 07:42 AM PT (US) 
JoeinAr

Oscar® Nominee

My how quickly it is these days to start critisising something so popular. In fact it is popular to critisise. Alot of people here are not old enough to remember how after Jaws, and Star Wars(not Star Wars A New Hope just Star Wars), both received much critisism. If it is that popular it can't be quality. Same with the scores they were ok, or worse. So what Variety prefers the LOTR score. You can bet John Williams Harry Potter will sell more thats for sure. Oh that means its more popular so it can't be any good. Well there is no accounting for taste.Personally I think HP is one of the finest scores in JW body of work. It is light, dark, adventurous, even sad at times. It gave me goosebumps listening to it before I saw the film. A physiological response of that kind is high praise from me. So all of you that don't like Harry Potter, don't listen. Go listen to what makes your butter melt. Whatever it is it may a may not be better but it sure won't be as popular.
posted 12-04-2001 08:03 AM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Oscar® Winner

HARRY POTTER FOREVER!!!!!!!!--Brian
NP: My Dog Skip (William Ross)
posted 12-04-2001 09:27 AM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

Potter is wonderul.
posted 12-04-2001 09:39 AM PT (US) 
CBmogul
Oscar® Winner

Marian, I think you're right. (I think you're always right..ha ha ha...) The horn quartet at the beginning of track 9, is, I believe, "Hogwarts' theme" or perhaps "Gryffindor's theme".I'm happy to see that you've classified the three-note motif as the "Stone's theme". The first time I watched the movie, I saw that the theme was played always when the Stone was being mentioned, etc., yet people were saying about it being Lord Voldemort's theme. I thought that was a little flat. I just doubted that John Williams would write such a simple theme for such a complex character.
"Voldemort's theme" is definitely the brooding, 13-note motif in "The Face of Voldemort".
About the "ostinato", I think it's a theme for Harry and Harry's magical moments. It plays during the Zoo scene (which you mentioned) and again in "Mr. Longbottom Flies" when Harry has to get on his broom. The title of that track would lead me me to think it was a flying theme, but I think "Hedwig's Theme" is the real "flying theme" in this score.
I was talking to a friend about a week ago and he thought the (beautiful) theme in "Leaving Hogwarts" was Hogwarts' theme. I don't think so. I think that's a "family theme" for the film. The same motif is played during the Mirror scene.
Hogwarts' theme, (or at least a second theme)I think is the heralding fanfare motif played at the non-action, pleasant moments (beginning and end) of "The Quidditch Match". The same motif appears in "Harry's Wondrous World" and Hogwarts is definitely part of Harry's wondrous world.
So, my opinion, is that Harry has AT LEAST three themes in the movie, them being:
- the main motif in "Harry's Wondrous
World" (another AWESOME melody of
Williams')
- the "magic theme" I mentioned above
- and the "family theme" I mentioned aboveAbout the LOTR argument - hasn't really done anything to keep me listening. I'm hoping it fits much better in the film and also hoping that THE TWO TOWERS and THE RETURN OF THE KING are much more captivating. I still think it's good, but it doesn't compare to scores like HARRY POTTER.

OK, this has turned out long enough.
~CB
NP: A River Runs Through It; Ishamposted 12-04-2001 10:40 AM PT (US) 
SPQR

Oscar® Winner

Caught Harry Potter last night at the Chinese...and I'm really hard pressed to imagine how anyone, let alone a 6 year old, could have found pleasure in this stupifyingly dull and uninvolving, 3hr white elephant.And I'll leave it at that since most of you are smitten by this robot of a film and immediately turn to evicerating the score.
I disliked it immediately. Too loud. Too much. Too little to say..."hey, that's Star Wars isn't it," my companion whispered... yet on and on it went, stomping about like a goblin on the roof who won't let you sleep. And I so much wanted to just close my eyes and dream about LOTR.
Had Goldsmith been assigned this turkey, I would at least be comforted in the knowledge that the man's experience scoring bad films would at least render Potter some degree of drama, however fraudulent it might be. But Williams' is not Goldsmith and so, slavishly, the score follows head to toe an incoherent , peel-and-apply plot to a pointedly unremarkable conclusion with equal artiface.
Wizard of Oz is a classic people. Harry Potter is just troll bait...and the score...a keen reminder that good composers can go bad.
posted 12-04-2001 12:08 PM PT (US) 
Quill
Oscar® Winner

Ooooh...me too...me too...POTTER NEVER DIES...maybe we can all have a slumber party later!!Sorry for the cynicism...I just want to belong!!
posted 12-04-2001 01:37 PM PT (US) 
John Zimmer

Oscar® Winner

Well if they start a Potter never Dies club then I want to start a Potter Forever club.
Np: Hero (George Fenton) **/*****
Jz
posted 12-04-2001 03:24 PM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Oscar® Winner

John, i'm down!--Brian
NP: POTTER
posted 12-04-2001 05:03 PM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

Thanks Mogul, that was the kind of reply I was hoping for.
I first thought the 3-note-motif was Voldemort's theme, too. But then I noticed that it popped up during the Gringotts music.
The point about the "magic theme" is interesting, but I'm not yet quite convinced. Evereything you said makes sense, but it sounds too threatening for a Williams magic theme, don't you think?
The other theme is certainly a family theme. As you said, it pops up during the mirror sequences, and also when Harry learns that his father played Quidditch as well. And of course at the end, as I mentioned above (one of the most clever ways to use a theme I've heard - and the reason why I was fighting tears at the end of the movie
).posted 12-05-2001 05:07 PM PT (US) 
joan hue

Oscar® Winner

Hi Marian. You’ve done a nice job of analyzing the music. Perhaps
you should try to publish something about this score. Just want you
to know that I liked your analysis, but I must admit that I didn’t enjoy
the movie...which has nothing to do with you great music review.Right before Harry Potter, one of the trailers showed previews to the
new remastered E.T. which will play in theaters in March. As I reflect
back upon that preview of that classic family movie and when I think
about Wizard of Oz, I think I understand why I didn’t enjoy Harry
Potter. Both WO and E.T. were not afraid to take EMOTIONAL
risks even if somewhat manipulative risks. Characters were allowed
to develop causing us to care. Kids cry when Dorothy
says good bye to her three friends and are horrified when the monkeys
fly away with Dorothy and unstuff the scarecrow. We were genuinely
emotionally invested in those characters. Spielberg wasn’t afraid to
play upon all of our emotions either. We were terrified of E.T. at first
and horrified for him when the “bad guys” came to quarantine him.
The film was loaded with rich humor, and the magical child within
all of us delighted when the bicycles lifted into the air. And of course,
E.T. had to leave, so why not sniffle our way through the ending?
We cared. And finally, Spielberg had something to say about human
paranoia towards something “different.” Both movies tapped into
our emotions, and it is this investment of our feelings that gives those
movies their hearts and souls. I know some of you loved Potter, and
I’m glad you did, but for me, I couldn’t infuse any emotion into a
flat, CGI laden movie that forgot about the hearts of the audience.
The music was fine; in fact, it was what kept me awake. While I
admired some of its visuals, I just couldn’t care about the story
nor the characters. So sorry.NP A Far Off Place.
posted 12-07-2001 02:50 PM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by joan hue:
Hi Marian. You’ve done a nice job of analyzing the music. Perhaps
you should try to publish something about this score.Thanks!
As I said, I wanted to write a review, but I'd need to see the film again to really "get" everything. While I enjoyed it very much, I'll wait for the DVD to watch it a third time - I need to keep some money for a couple of LOTR tickets as well. 
As for a "lack of heart" in the movie: I guess you just have to know the book. There's a lot of heart in it, but 2.5 hours is just too short to put too much character development in the movie; they already had to simplify the plot quite a bit. As I said: The movie could have been better, but only if they made it even longer (which would be fine with me, but I think we can be glad that they didn't make it 1.5 hours).
posted 12-07-2001 02:57 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
- Hedwig's Theme
