I was actually referring to the bloke who lives at the top of the beanstalk......owing to the fact he apparently spends most his time with his head in the clouds, Lightborne should know him well enough.....

James - "Nothing exemplifies a "broadminded and enlightened society" better than calling your fellow men "a bunch of a$$holes, freaks, and social misfits.""

What's wrong with being an a$$hole, freak, social misfit and/or soundtrack collector? Not only does Lightborne discriminate against 'non-whites', now you discriminate against a$$holes and freaks. Next you'll be telling me it's somehow wrong to be gay!

James - "I'm very disappointed to hear you admit that you wish to condone the brutal actions and position of the Ku Klux Klan by contributing to a message board that so openly supports them."

I contribute to this message board partly in an effort to counter right-wing and racist propaganda......I feel it is my duty to help promote racial and sexual equality. In any case, by listening to Wagner I am not condoning his politics.

James - "Not only enormous fingers, but a nose to match!"

Now you're cracking Jewish jokes......deplorable. I should point out, despite its size, my nose is not my most prominent physical protuberance.

James - "You are one such person. In that respect, it gives me great satisfaction to be the one to save you from yourself."

Hmmm......haven't I heard that before somewhere......? It seems as though 'James' is suffering from a touch of the Goldsmiths (a term used to describe a precipitous decline in one's creative inspiration, the monotonous recycling of one's own material and an alarming propensity for stealing other people's ideas).

James - "Again, it is disheartening to hear you support their cause in such an inflammatory fashion. Equating the hateful and disturbing words and actions of racist and prejudiced individuals like Lightborne and Graham Watt with civilization's "noble pursuit of racial harmony" only reaffirms your hidden but rampant racial and social bigotry."

Not quite. Horrible though September 11 was, it has encouraged the nations of the free world to unite against international terrorism......thus a greater good has evolved from a tragedy. Likewise, the hateful racist language of a misguided few, such as Lightborne, promotes a greater awareness of racism amongst society as a whole......only then can we begin to effectively eradicate the scourge of racism from the free world.

Far from condoning Lightborne's racist behaviour, I am merely pointing out that it is partly because of bigots like him that the bulk of society has acted to protect the interests of so-called 'minority groups'.......indeed, the perceived inability of the cinema management to act to prevent unrest amongst the audience for fear of invoking a 'race suit' is a direct consequence of continued racist behaviour amongst a thankfully decreasing proportion of society.

If Lightborne should be blaming anyone for the disruption during the movie's run-time, real or imagined, it is himself and the rest of his klan.

Daniel

I completely and openly count myself among the freaks and social misfits. As for the a$$holes, you're right, I do discriminate against them.

Daniel - I contribute to this message board partly in an effort to counter right-wing and racist propaganda......I feel it is my duty to help promote racial and sexual equality.

I'm glad we have heroes like you; every other thread here seems to turn into a Klan rally.

Daniel - In any case, by listening to Wagner I am not condoning his politics.

Neither are you shaming them.

Daniel - Now you're cracking Jewish jokes...

It would only be a Jewish joke if I thought all Jews had big noses; that is not the case. Since it was you, not I, who made that connection, it would appear that you are the one who subscribes to this stereotype.

Daniel - I should point out, despite its size, my nose is not my most prominent physical protuberance.

Now you're making jokes about gigantism.....deplorable.

Daniel - Hmmm......haven't I heard that before somewhere......?

I can't imagine where.

Daniel - It seems as though 'James' is suffering from a touch of the Goldsmiths (a term used to describe a precipitous decline in one's creative inspiration, the monotonous recycling of one's own material and an alarming propensity for stealing other people's ideas).

Britons with Balls, anyone?

Daniel - ...the perceived inability of the cinema management to act to prevent unrest amongst the audience for fear of invoking a 'race suit' is a direct consequence of continued racist behaviour amongst a thankfully decreasing proportion of society.

So they should have silenced the disruptors without even thinking about race? I see your point here, and agree.

Daniel - Likewise, the hateful racist language of a misguided few, such as Lightborne, promotes a greater awareness of racism amongst society as a whole......only then can we begin to effectively eradicate the scourge of racism from the free world.

So the virus has to spread before you can kill it? I thought it only got stronger that way.

Kirk

You really shouldn't be so hard on yourself......

James - "I'm glad we have heroes like you; every other thread here seems to turn into a Klan rally."

The danger is, without people like me, every other thread probably would.

James - "Neither are you shaming them."

Wagner's musical output, per se, is harmlessly apolitical, the racist sentiment allowed to flourish at this message board is not.

James - "It would only be a Jewish joke if I thought all Jews had big noses; that is not the case. Since it was you, not I, who made that connection, it would appear that you are the one who subscribes to this stereotype."

Well, you certainly fell for that one......

James - "Now you're making jokes about gigantism....."

Not really, I'm just proving I can laugh at myself.......apparently an alien concept to many Americans. As the great Englishman Frank Richards said of foreigners - "They lack the sense of humour which is the special gift of our chosen nation: and people without a sense of humour are always unconsciously funny".........how true that is of you, James.

James - "Britons with Balls, anyone?"

If one is to discuss the achievements of 'Britons with Balls', such as Admiral Nelson, Edgar Allan Poe, Thomas Jefferson, Gary Cooper, John Mahoney and Frank Oz, one must remain objective. Thus the facts I have published within my 'Britons with Balls' series are incontrovertible and can be verified at several thousand alternative sources throughout the internet and public libraries. For me to present those facts in any other way would be a distortion of the truth. Hence, my discussion of these great men coincides absolutely with accepted fact. There is only one Frank Oz who was born in Hereford, England and who went on to voice Kermit the Frog, amongst other things......

James - "So they should have silenced the disruptors without even thinking about race? I see your point here, and agree."

I am glad you are cottoning on......in an ideal world, yes, race should not come into it......but to compensate for the bigoted, discriminatory and racist minority in society, the so-called 'ethnic minorities' rightly receive a disproportionately high amount of protection from the establishment and the caring majority. Hence, in such instances as the cinema disturbance related at the start of this excellent thread, Lightborne, and other racists, are victims of their own actions. If racism were expunged, as it will be in time (as the races continue to intermingle), then there would be no need to provide additional protection to the victimized 'ethnic minorities', and the cinema management could act accordingly without fear of 'race suits'.

James - "So the virus has to spread before you can kill it?"

Isn't that the basic principle of inoculation?

Only ten years ago, domestic and institutional child abuse was a taboo subject here in the UK.....it was swept under the rug......citizens and politicians alike turned a blind eye. Thanks to a new dawn of left-wing wisdom and open-mindedness, the horrors and true extent of institutional child abuse in Britain's care homes was exposed to the nation. Thanks to the publicising of this horrendous situation, unpalatable though it may be, people are now aware of the true dangers our children are exposed to, and as a direct consequence society has acted in a variety of ways to effectively combat the evils of child abuse in our homes and institutions.

It is the same with the HIV virus. Only by discussing its dangers, and understanding and publicising methods of safe sex, can society protect itself from this viral horror. Whatever one's moral standpoint, people, including school children will continue to engage in sexual activity and abuse drugs. To prevent the distribution of free condoms, needles and explicit advice within our schools would be to condemn many of our children to a lingering death. The same is true when it comes to combating drug abuse and unwanted teenage pregnancies.

In many ways I mourn the death of the 'age of innocence'.......but it is for a greater good......

PeterK - "Kirk, excellent work."

A ringing endorsement from PeterK is enough to satisfy me of James' abject failure to successfully counter my statements of fact.

Daniel

A 5th-grade response, at best. Come on, Danny, you can do better.

Daniel - "The danger is, without people like me, every other thread probably would."

So why just film music? Why aren't you swooping in and saving the world from right-wing propaganda at other entertainment forums? Not only does ViewAskew.com desparately need you, but there your ideas would be exposed to a much larger audience than this one.

Daniel - "Wagner's musical output, per se, is harmlessly apolitical..."

Hitler didn't seem to think so.

Daniel - "Well, you certainly fell for that one......"

Again you write me off as an inferior, but you have failed to provide evidence to counter the fact of your prejudice.

Daniel - "I'm just proving I can laugh at myself......."

And you obviously have plenty of reasons to do so.

Daniel, quoting Frank Richards - "...people without a sense of humour are always unconsciously funny..."

I disagree; you're one of the least entertaining people I've ever known.

Daniel - "Thus the facts I have published within my 'Britons with Balls' series are incontrovertible..."

I'd hope they would be, especially when you cut and paste the articles word-for-word out of Encyclopedia Britannica.

Daniel - "There is only one Frank Oz who was born in Hereford, England and who went on to voice Kermit the Frog, amongst other things......"

Was that a sample of the great sense of humor Mr. Richards was talking about?

Daniel - "...the so-called 'ethnic minorities' rightly receive a disproportionately high amount of protection from the establishment and the caring majority. Hence, in such instances as the cinema disturbance related at the start of this excellent thread, Lightborne, and other racists, are victims of their own actions..."

I assure you, the cinema management had no interest in protecting the civil rights of the disruptive individuals. They were driven by their own fear of punishment, not by a sense of what was the right thing to do. And who's to say that there weren't other black individuals in the theater who were also disturbed by the disruption, and likewise felt like they weren't getting their money's worth? In such a situation, what happens to "affirmative action" on their part? This is a question, mind you, not a challenge.

Daniel - "Only ten years ago, domestic and institutional child abuse was a taboo subject here in the UK.....it was swept under the rug......citizens and politicians alike turned a blind eye...."

That's different. You were talking about Lightborne publicly using "hateful racist language." That would only be equivalent to this case if the abusers themselves went to public forums of discussion, proclaiming that children should be flogged to get the devil out of them (or whatever their rationale might be).

Daniel - "Only by discussing its dangers, and understanding and publicising methods of safe sex, can society protect itself from this viral horror. Whatever one's moral standpoint, people, including school children will continue to engage in sexual activity and abuse drugs. To prevent the distribution of free condoms, needles and explicit advice within our schools would be to condemn many of our children to a lingering death. The same is true when it comes to combating drug abuse and unwanted teenage pregnancies."

Agreed, mostly. But my response as it relates to the subject at hand is the same as the previous one.

Daniel - "A ringing endorsement from PeterK is enough to satisfy me of James' abject failure to successfully counter my statements of fact."

I had no idea I was trying.

Kirk

Without people like you, we might be able to have constructive discussions in those threads. Aside from a single misinterpreted reference to "hip-hoppers," there's no racism here. You're simply seeking targets for your wanton and senseless attacks, which are themselves nothing more than an attention-drawing mechanism. Grow up.

Daniel - "Wagner's musical output, per se, is harmlessly apolitical, the racist sentiment allowed to flourish at this message board is not."

There are no discriminatory sentiments flourishing at this board, Daniel, save those against artists like Hans Zimmer for their methods and styles of writing music. If you want to fight racism, an act I encourage, then I suggest you go argue with someone like the denizens of alt.flame.niggers. Who knows, maybe their brand of blind, nonsensical denial will prove compatible with your own and you'll make some friends.

Daniel - "As the great Englishman Frank Richards said of foreigners ... how true that is of you, James."

So discriminating against "foreigners" is all right with you? Sounds like you might need to fight tribalism a little closer to home.

Daniel - "to compensate for the bigoted, discriminatory and racist minority in society, the so-called 'ethnic minorities' rightly receive a disproportionately high amount of protection from the establishment and the caring majority."

Wrong. People like the group that disrupted Lightborne's show are not being discriminated against and should not receive special treatment simply because they are of a minority. To let someone get away with disruptive and harmful behavior simply because they are black is just another form of racism. By encouraging different treatment, you are encouraging segregation. All people should be equal under the law, no ifs ands or buts.

Daniel - "Isn't that the basic principle of inoculation?"

No, inoculation works by providing the body with a means to develop defenses against a specific disease. Society will not grow T cells that kill racism if we are exposed to it enough. Your analogies have no bearing on reality or logic whatsoever.

Daniel - "Only ten years ago, blah blah blah, homes and institutions."

Racism is not swept under the rug in the United States, you idiot. It is a real and acknowledged problem that is dealt with publicly and regularly. The US has changed immensely over the past century with regards to racism, and continues to change to combat prejudice wherever it emerges. What world do you live in?

Daniel - "A ringing endorsement from PeterK is enough to satisfy me of James' abject failure to successfully counter my statements of fact."

It's hard to counter something that exists only in your unreasonably skewed view of reality, Daniel. If and when you ever make a factual, relevant statement, I can assure you that it will be dealt with accordingly.

James, I implore you, leave this wretch to his ramblings. Arguing with him only gives him the attention he craves, and you'll have as much luck reasoning with a rabid gopher.

And that's the difference between you and me. I am not seeking to prevent anyone from publishing their opinions at this message board, no matter how hateful and outlandish they may be. Indeed, such misguided bigots as Lightborne and Justin Boggon serve a positive purpose in that they alert others to the evils still prevalent within our society.

Probable - "Aside from a single misinterpreted reference to "hip-hoppers," there's no racism here."

The racism found at this thread is insidious. In the UK we call it 'Institutional Racism'......it's a form of racism in which the perpetrator may not even recognize his own bigotry and as such cannot guard against the casual offensive remark or action. Owing to the sheer scale of this problem, institutional, or unwitting, racism is often even more destructive than overt racial abuse.

Probable - "If you want to fight racism, an act I encourage, then I suggest you go argue with someone like the denizens of alt.flame.niggers."

Who's to say I'm not already?

Probable - "So discriminating against "foreigners" is all right with you?"

I merely quoted Frank Richards' words, and commented on how appropriate they were, in this instance.

Probable - "To let someone get away with disruptive and harmful behavior simply because they are black is just another form of racism."

But it isn't 'simply because they are black'......it is for fear of invoking a 'race suit' because the caring majority of society has sought to protect the interests of the so-called ethnic minorities in response to the bigotry and prejudices of a, thankfully diminishing, section of society.......comprende?

Probable - "By encouraging different treatment, you are encouraging segregation. All people should be equal under the law, no ifs ands or buts."

Try telling the parents of Stephen Lawrence that......the problem is the law enforcement agencies themselves are riddled with 'institutional' and overt racism, often to a far greater extent than the rest of society. Of course, most 'minority' groups dislike the idea of positive discrimination for the 'so-called' ethnic minorities themselves.....many view it as condescending and patronizing. But whilst a significant proportion of society remain racist and bigoted, often unwittingly, positive discrimination for such minority groups is essential. Sadly, at present, when it comes to racial and sexual equality, there ain't no such thing as a level playing field.....that is something the establishment and the caring majority of society are striving to achieve.

Probable - "No, inoculation works by providing the body with a means to develop defenses against a specific disease. Society will not grow T cells that kill racism if we are exposed to it enough. Your analogies have no bearing on reality or logic whatsoever."

The fact you are incapable of comprehending my analogies is no concern of mine. However, just for you, I'll repeat. Society can only truly act to expunge the scourge of racism if it faces up to its existence. In that respect, bigots and racists, such as Lightborne, at least serve that purpose.....such misguided souls who publicise their racist views help to alert the rest of society to the larger problem.

Probable - "Racism is not swept under the rug in the United States, you idiot. It is a real and acknowledged problem that is dealt with publicly and regularly. The US has changed immensely over the past century with regards to racism, and continues to change to combat prejudice wherever it emerges."

Exactly.....which is why the 'black hip hoppers' in the cinema audience were not victimized by the cinema management and forcibly ejected.

Probable - "If and when you ever make a factual, relevant statement, I can assure you that it will be dealt with accordingly."

Ha, ha.......so what you're saying is, when I say something you regard as fact you will attempt to 'deal' with it.......that's really quite funny, because you can't even successfully 'deal' with those statements I have made which you disagree with.

Probable - "Arguing with him only gives him the attention he craves, and you'll have as much luck reasoning with a rabid gopher."

Thank you for admitting that arguing with my statements of fact is futile......and thank you also for continuing to pander to my cravings.

Daniel

I'm not proud.

James - "Why aren't you swooping in and saving the world from right-wing propaganda at other entertainment forums?"

Who's to say I'm not?

James - "Hitler didn't seem to think so."

Hitler merely appropriated Wagner's music. The composer did not write Tristan and Isolde with the Third Reich in mind, and even if he had, to burden any composer's music with subjective baggage is to undermine its true potential.

James - "Again you write me off as an inferior......"

Well you did fall for it rather.

James - "And you obviously have plenty of reasons to do so."

Yes......but not as many as I have to laugh at you.

James - ".....you're one of the least entertaining people I've ever known."

What, including Chevy Chase?

James - "I'd hope they would be, especially when you cut and paste the articles word-for-word out of Encyclopedia Britannica."

I'm glad you recognize my 'Britons with Balls' series as a demonstration of pure unadulterated fact.

James - "Was that a sample of the great sense of humor Mr. Richards was talking about?"

What's so funny about the fact Frank Oz who was born in Hereford, England and then went on to voice Kermit the Frog, amongst other things......?

James - "I assure you, the cinema management had no interest in protecting the civil rights of the disruptive individuals. They were driven by their own fear of punishment, not by a sense of what was the right thing to do."

The cinema management's attitude towards civil rights is not the issue here. Whilst I don't condone the actions of the so-called 'hip hoppers', I do recognize the fact that racism is a far greater evil than perceived rowdiness within a cinema. Without laws to protect the so-called 'ethnic minorities' from victimization, the cinema management could get away with barring all non-whites from entering their cinema in the first place, if they were so inclined. The maintenance of civilization is based on a fear of punishment, it's called a deterrent.....

James - "That's different. You were talking about Lightborne publicly using "hateful racist language." That would only be equivalent to this case if the abusers themselves went to public forums of discussion, proclaiming that children should be flogged to get the devil out of them (or whatever their rationale might be)."

Such evils as racism and child abuse (and I was mainly referring to sexual abuse) must be fought wherever they appear. The point I am making is that society can only truly act to expunge the scourge of racism if they are willing to face up to its existence. The fact that you, and many others here, fail to recognize the invidious racism in Lightborne's postings at this message board is not only disturbing but also very much paralleled to the failure of society to recognize, and accept as fact, the true extent of child abuse in our homes and institutions in the past.

James - "I had no idea I was trying."

That's just as well.

Daniel

The only way people learn from violations like this is to be punished severely. Otherwise, there will be other victims down the road that also fall prey to their barbarism. We cannot fear oppression by these Neandrathalic thugs. They must be eliminated by whatever means possible. If that involves punishing them, the theatre owners or whomever can be properly held responsible.

You shouldn't fear going to see a ****ing movie!!!! And getting your money's worth. I don't give a **** where you live. What's next? You're going to fear the cooks at Burger King beating you if they give you the improper order and you ask for the right one? Give me a break.

This family who assaulted this young couple should be made an example of. Publicly, too. They've lost their rights as far as I'm concerned. Degenreates like this, that do things like this, and act like animals, must be trained like animals. How can we beat our dogs foe their mistakes who give us so much love when we walk through the door and treat moronic homo sapiens like these people better than our own dogs? I ask you that. Because they are human, they automatically deserve to be treated better, forgiven of their crimes? They haven't earned anything just by being human. If they act like animals, they should be treated like animals. Respect is earned, not handed out free out like flyers at Walmart.

Taken in isolation your above posting may seem almost reasonable........however, coupled with everything else you have posted at this message board it helps paint a pictured of an outmoded, overzealous, antisocial windbag devoid of a single atom of compassion.

Lightborne - ".....people must stand up and not fear this type of thing. It is an intolerable situation and if it happened to me, I wouldn't stop until I owned the theatre......"

What, like you 'stood up' to the 'rowdy black hip hoppers'?

Not only are you a small-minded prude and liar......a hypocrite as well.

Labelling the Cincinnati riots the most recent example of so-called "white victimization," racists and white extremists, such as Lightborne, are using the Internet to spread their message of hate among like-minded bigots and to warn of broader repercussions. The Anti-Defamation League's (ADL) Internet Monitoring Unit, which tracks extremist speech online, has noted a marked increase in online discussions and postings on conservative Web sites, such as MovieMusic, as a result of the racial protests in Cincinnati.

"The haters predictably are using Cincinnati as a rallying call on the Internet to their cohorts or anyone else who will listen," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "The Internet has enabled the racists to communicate, to compare notes and to spread racial hatred in the wake of the Cincinnati riots. The riots have become a major focus of the online activity of bigots."

The ADL Internet Monitoring Unit has recently tracked numerous messages on Web sites, bulletin boards and e-mails posted by racists, such as -

The Aryan Nations Web site, which observed - "roving gangs of sub-human beasts Burn Plunder & Pillage the city. Kinsfolk, you had better be prepared … it's going to be a LONG, HOT, SUMMER!"

World Church of the Creator leader Matt Hale, after forwarding news articles under the headings "Niggers Pillage Cincinnati" and "Niggers Continue Savagery," e-mailed his supporters about the possibility of holding a public meeting there. World Church of the Creator, a virulently anti-Semitic and racist group, boasts more than two dozen chapters in the United States.

Racist Movie Music message board member Lightborne recently had this to say, "a rowdy group of teenage black hip hoppers began to fight amongst themselves very loudly in the very last row. So much so that indeed the people in the theatre kept turning around more focused on these kids than the movie itself. This continued the entire film with them running up and down the side steps......a rather large white gentleman who got up out of his seat and forced one of the louder ones out, following him down the aisle to the steps saying,"You're outta here. Get out."

The leader of the National Association for the Advancement of White People (NAAWP), Reno Wolfe, claims to have traveled in Cincinnati to "rally" his "members" and "supporters." Wolfe planned to ask city officials to press hate crime charges against those arrested during the rioting. The NAAWP demanded that "the City of Cincinnati pay for all those medical bills and therapy as required for each and every victim of the black-on-white rioting." The group cited Mayor Charles Luken as "likely motivation for the racial rioting," claiming that it may call for a "recall election."

The National Organization for European American Rights (NOFEAR), an organization founded and led by white supremacist and former Klansman David Duke, called for the prosecution of Black rioters and blamed the Cincinnati media for creating a "climate of racial hatred" against Whites. "Never has there been a more blatant case of racially motivated crime than these attacks on innocent Whites in Cincinnati last week," wrote NOFEAR National Community Relations Director Vincent Edwards in a letter to Ohio State Attorney General Betty D. Montgomery, which was published on the Internet. "We are asking you to send a strong message that attacks against Whites will be punished to the fullest extent of the law."

Thank God I'm living in a nation which values its multi-cultural identity rather than despising it.

Daniel

I will say this though, you have a lot of nerve in all of your accusations of me and other board members here. But the icing on the cake is for you to call someone a coward. You are, without a doubt, a model for cowardice with your hiding behind various monikers, "circumventing" ip addresses, and most definitely lying about every detail of your life that you boast such as being British, about being a porter, etc. You are simple and frustrated human being, a cipher wanting to share your verbal diarreah of ignorance with the whole world. You have a skewed anarchist worldview that has no foundation in reality.

You know why? Because I'm sure the worst thing that ever happened to you was obtaining a computer. There you sit day after day, night after night in front of it broadcasting your futility to whomever will listen. Here's a suggestion: Turn the computer off, step outside your door and experience the world so that your eyes may be opened to reality. Get rid of the monikers, the stories, your own hatred and paranoia and leave people who are trying to have a rational discussion alone.

You have no place here, man. You are loathed here. Can't you see that? Do you want to be pelted with tomatoes your whole life? You really need to help yourself and not the rest of the world.

Then you may be able to grace us with a "BRITONS WITH BRAINS" diatribe.

Oh, and in the best interest of this board and the space provided, if you wish to continue this back and forth, e-mail me, so we don't waste any more of the good peoples' reading time here.