because Hollywood sez it's good and pumps it out, the teenagers love it.

Meanwhile, all educated people agree that MV music is, well, not good. They all have formal musical education you say?

quote:

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Originally posted by JJH:
they're like the Britney Spears of film scores.

because Hollywood sez it's good and pumps it out, the teenagers love it.

Meanwhile, all educated people agree that MV music is, well, not good. They all have formal musical education you say?

good. why don't they use it?

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I don't think musical education has anything to do with it. A person can listen to music and get a complete rush and thrill out of it even if its just simple keyboard music. Video Game music fans come to mind.

No educated people like their music? I'd have to disagree.....

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Originally posted by Hasta:
JJH,

No educated people like their music? I'd have to disagree.....

And hey, it isn't high art, but something like [b]Armageddon is a helluva lot more entertaining than listening to something like Jones' overlong, boring From Hell...[/B]

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Yeah if you like that sound as if someone is pounding the keyboard with no sense of direction, although the second track is ok and the The Launch has is moments until the electric guitars come in.

quote:

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Originally posted by JJH:
I'll give a free CDR (of my choosing) to the person who knows where the "all educated people" line comes from.

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"But really, Sire, not German, I beg you. Italian is the proper language for opera. All educated people agree on that."

I like MV but not nearly as much as I used to. I think if you compare MV to say, Elliot Goldenthal, Elliot Goldenthal is with out any doubt more musically interesting, where as MV is more...less interesting.

Also, I wouldn't call anyone that doesn't like Symphonic film music 'uneducated', and I don't think thats what JJH was saying.
It's like once you've been exposed to seedless watermelon, you don't want to go back to eating watermelon with seeds. You want more watermelon without seeds. Watermelon with seeds just isn't going to do it for you like seedless watermelon will.

I don't believe Zimmer has any formal training, and it shows a bit, mainly because it's basically 'chords with a melody' type music(Maybe thats a slight generalisation) but I think he's getting better, i.e As Good as it Gets, Thin Red Line, Hannibal. Compare these to Broken Arrow, Point of No Return, etc and you'll know what I mean.

quote:

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Originally Posted by TimT:
I don't think musical education has anything to do with it. A person can listen to music and get a complete rush and thrill out of it even if its just simple keyboard music. Video Game music fans come to mind.

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Yeah, it may give some people a rush, but I'd guess that anyone with a musical education is going to have listened to a wider array of music than the average Joe Schmoe and because of this, their standards will be higher for no other reason than what Joe Schmoe likes isn't enough to satisfy the guy with a musical education because the guy with a musical education, not because the guy with a musical education is a snob or anything like that, but because he has been exposed to more things.

NP: Red Corner - Thomas Newman

That said, I think some MV composers have done fabulous work outside of the MV style we typically associate with them. John Powell and Harry Gregson-Williams are the two brightest talents, and I loved Gavin Greenaway's work on that Disney "Millenium Celebration" album.

As for Trevor Rabin, he probably doesn't work for MediaVentures because he gets plenty of work without them. Rabin I have never been too thrilled with... the portions of Armageddon that I was really impressed by I later found out were Harry G-W's work.

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
Herr Kappelmeister was wrong, you realize.

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I never said he wasn't. I just want my free CD-R.

I'd like to add two things. First, I'm not sure age (i.e., younger generation vs. older generation) really has anything to do with it. I'm 18... certainly not of the "older" generation, and I'm not too fond of the typical MV action fare. Secondly, and I said this same thing about the Spy Game sound clips... I don't think the style is necessarily bad, I just don't enjoy it as much as many people do. It's a matter of taste, as always.

look no further than Angelo Badalamenti.

but I am tired of the Zimmer heldenmusik sound.
It's old, is seriously dated, and bereft of passion.

James, you have your choice, since you are obviously a fan of Amadeus:

JNH Suites and Themes, 2 CDRs jam packed with goodness

or

quote:

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Yeah, it may give some people a rush, but I'd guess that anyone with a musical education is going to have listened to a wider array of music than the average Joe Schmoe and because of this, their standards will be higher for no other reason than what Joe Schmoe likes isn't enough to satisfy the guy with a musical education because the guy with a musical education, not because the guy with a musical education is a snob or anything like that, but because he has been exposed to more things.
[/B]

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Richard...I'm intending to refute this...but--it's a little dumb. (Not like "dumbass" dumb, just a little dumb. Sorry--I'm feeling a little liberal with the "dumb" calling this evening.)

So ner!

But back on topic...
I understand what you're saying, but because you've heard Beethoven, it's possible to find it harder to come back to Cyndi Lauper
because Beethoven offers much more.

They are apples and oranges, but if you took Cyndi Lauper and Beethoven and made both of them film composers, where they are then both apples (or oranges if you like), which would taste better to someone that has been taught about what makes a 'good' apple?

You're being dumb mixing metaphors, dumbo.

1) Cyndi Lauper (I chose that name arbitrarily) and Beethoven (also arbitrarily) don't offer the same thing. They offer two different things. No more or less than the other. It just depends on what you're looking for.

It was really dumb.

I figured they were arbitrarily chosen, but I still thought you were picking someone trained and someone that's a 'pop' icon.
This is okay though, because even if you make both film composers and they are different, a person with a musical education is going to appreciate Beethoven more than Cyndi Lauper because musically, he offers more.

But wouldn't Citrus Lauper and Beethorange both be from the same family?

Oranges are citrus fruits and citrus fruits could be lemons, limes, oranges, etc, so both would be related.

Cop that you dummy!

You're working on the assumption that The Arbitrary Cyndi Lauper (reportedly a 5 on the PH scale, indicating citrus content) is not musically trained. In fact most of your straight brand of chart-topping rockers are musically trained. (e.g., Paul McCartney, Freddy Mercury, Billy Joel--and haven't you heard his new classical album?--and yes, Trevor Rabin.)

However, they have chosen to express themselves differently than, oh, say, your Arbitrary Beethoven. Actually, the argument exists that they are not expressing themselves differently than Beethoven, as the all use the language of music to express emotion....however, let us clarify that whereas Beethoven expresses himself in a cello or violin, Lauper uses an electric guitar, or a keyboard.

(More than anything this seems to be an arguement about the advent of electricity, surely having done more to hinder musical progression in the last century than even Barry Manilow.)

(Note that these Amish protesters all have hamsters propelling their CD players.)

Now, my metaphorical relation to "Apples" and "Oranges" is more a reference to instrumental expression, and not musical training.

Granted, that there is a difference between knowing the classics and being classically trained--however, not all musicians/composers lock themselves away in a conservatory in Vienna to learn how to employ Strassian trumpet motifs in their compositions (much to the chagrin of His Imperial excellency, K.M. JJH, I'm certain....)

P.S.:
(Also worth noting that McCartney did, technically, compose a classically flavored instrumental work--Standing Stone, I believe it is called. Someone else arranged it, though. The cad.)

(Billy Joel can compose classical music. Can't really play it, though. <shrug> All those years of piano lessons.....)

In all this dumbness, I think we've skidded off course. I'm not talking about expression, I'm talking about why more musically educated people don't like MV as much, even though the thread is about Rabin.

My thoughts are that it's because he's not that musically interesting in comparisson to other composers out there.
I'm saying is that if you know the ins and outs of a trade, profession or skill, or are familiar with its highest level, then its not surprising if you will need more to satisfy than others.

B) Like whomever you wish. Perception is reality for most people.
But have the intestinal fortitude, wisdom and intelligence to know the difference between Cyndi Lauper and Beethoven.
Encourage composition, sure. We can ALL compose melodies.
But don't tell me that Rabin deserves more work than say, John Morris or Bruce Broughton, cuz he's giving the ol' college try.
Standards are there for a reason and it pisses me off that they're always subverted in favor of the dumbed-down approach.

I guess it stands to reason that the most intellectually deficient films of the last few years ALL have a Rabin/ Powell/ Media Ventures score. Gone in 60 Seconds, Gladiator, Evolution, Armageddon, Con Air, Enemy of the State....

It also doesn't surprise me that my point was missed entirely. I am not so dense or unlearned as to not know the difference between (the popular choices seem to be) Cyndi Lauper and Beethoven. Or U2 and John Scott. Or Britney Spears and Bruce Broughton.

Or not admit that there must be a time and place for each. And that enjoying one or the other in their respective occasions does not make the listener mentally or educationally lacking.

It must be completely incomprehensible to imagine a world where one could--theoretically--enjoy Stravinsky and Nick Glennie-Smith. (Or enjoy/admire the respective talents of said composers.)

Or...accept the fact that a so-called "intellectually devoid" film could incorporate and/or accompany something of musical value.

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Originally posted by JJH:

Encourage composition, sure. We can ALL compose melodies.
But don't tell me that Rabin deserves more work than say, John Morris or Bruce Broughton, cuz he's giving the ol' college try.
Standards are there for a reason and it pisses me off that they're always subverted in favor of the dumbed-down approach.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JJH:
James, you have your choice, since you are obviously a fan of Amadeus:

JNH Suites and Themes, 2 CDRs jam packed with goodness

or

a 2 CDR Golden Age set, also of my own devising, also jam-packed with goodness.

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I'll go for the Gold.

Clayton

PS>I LIKE Britteny Spears! (Well, not really, but she's a hottie! )

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Originally posted by scoreguy16:
I HAVE AN IDEA! Let people like what they like. How's that? And accept the fact that someone doesn't like the exact same note that you do.

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Well if we did that then there would be nothing to talk about here on the message board! :-p

As far as Brittney Spears, I must confess... I want to kill her.

Why?

I could care less about her music.....

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Originally posted by Vladimir:
Well guys this topic has turned into a argument like i thought. I still enjoy media Ventures even though most people do not. Its only music and if they can compose a good score i will buy it no matter who it is. I can't wait for Spy Game!!!!!

Matt N/P Gladiator by a fellow Media Venture Employee Zimmer

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I am not sure most people don't like MV.