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Author	Topic: Fantasy films

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	Well I thought about how to post this for awhile and came up with this. Have you ever noticed that fantasy films are some of the worst films imaginable? For instance just take alook at these top worst (or would that be bottom worst? anyway....) fantasy films in cinema history. Dragonheart: A New Begining. If you liked the first one (which I did) you'l HATE this one with a vengence. Labyrinth. Well uh.... It's awful and annoying see the post "Labyrinth review..." for info on the score. Legend. Awful just awful. And uh....why dosen't Tom Cruise ever were any pants? I mean he were's this magic armor and it dosent have any pants!! Warriors of Virture. Fighting kangaroos? Uh ok....great score though! Jz P.S. I'll probably get beat up for saying this.
posted 10-29-2001 07:48 AM PT (US)

juha Oscar® Winner	Well, John I have only seen Legend from your list and the movie is poor because of heavy post-production editing and the replacement of Jerry Goldsmith's superb score in the US version. I haven't seen many fantasy movies but in most cases it seems that the score is much better than the movie.
posted 10-29-2001 08:23 AM PT (US)

Probable Oscar® Winner	While I don't disagree with you about any of the specific films you mentioned, I don't think you should perceive that as a larger trend in fantasy films. After all, you yourself said the first Dragonheart was great. What about films like Willow, The 13th Warrior, Conan the Barbarian, Terry Gilliam's films, The Princess Bride, older films like Jason and the Argonauts, 20000 Leagues Under The Sea, and upcoming films which hopefully won't suck like Hairy Butter and The Fellowship of the Ring? [Message edited by Probable on 10-29-2001]
posted 10-29-2001 08:39 AM PT (US)

Lightborne Oscar® Winner	Sorry I can't entirely agree with you on this... I cite WILLOW and CITY OF LOST CHILDREN, both of which I think are good fantasy films (CITY is superb, one of my favorites). And both have wonderful scores.
posted 10-29-2001 08:42 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	There certainly are many bad fantasy movies - there are many bad movies in every genre. And I think the percentage of bad movies is particularly high among "genre movies". There are several good/great fantasy films (some of which have been cited above), but I've come to generally don't prefer/dislike particular genres, but rather judge the films as films (fantasy films that only rely on their fantasy aspect are generally bad, like any film that puts genre over content). I do hope though that along with the Potter and LOTR movies, we might see more good fantasy movies in the future. NP: The Omen, Deluxe Edition (Jerry Goldsmith)
posted 10-29-2001 09:00 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	Well I didn't say that all fantasy films were bad just some of them. And I do love films like The Princess Bride which seems "INCONSEIVABLE!" but I do, also Willow is a good one. LOTR is going to be good and POTTER probably will be good too. Np: Space Camp (John Williams) **/*** Jz
posted 10-29-2001 10:36 AM PT (US)

Ken S Oscar® Winner	I think the "serious" films are the worst ones imaginable - because who can say what is REAL/NORMAL and what is not ? And furthermore, why are there people who judge "fantasy films" being stupid and yet can't admit that the very concept of a film is ALWAYS f a n t a s y ? Crazy, I think. In my opinion the very best movie music comes from fantasy films - well, naturally, because the "realism films" usually don't use much of original film music. You know what is also amazing ? I happen to have an enormous imagination and I love almost everything associated with fantasy, but then I can't "get through" this one particular POTTER score KEN
posted 10-29-2001 10:37 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	Ken why don't you shut your trap before I stick my foot in it. Jz
posted 10-29-2001 10:40 AM PT (US)

Pumpkinhead Oscar® Winner	I liked the movie Krull, that was a pretty cool movie. And actually I like Legend. Even though the editing may have made the movie seem too fast paced or something. I can't wait for the DVD though with the Goldsmith score!!!!!!!
posted 10-29-2001 10:41 AM PT (US)

James Oscar® Winner	I would say that very, very few people in America have actually seen Legend. If you take Terry Gilliam's original cut of Brazil and compare it with the version Sid Scheinberg tried to get released, there are two completely different movies (and Scheinberg's version is a piece of tripe). Since Scheinberg was also responsible for most of the changes in Legend's American release, I would venture to guess that the difference is nearly as great. And speaking of Terry Gilliam, his fantasy films (as Probable mentioned) are all first-rate. But then, I'm not sure it's actually possible for Gilliam to make a bad film. I enjoyed Labyrinth, but maybe that was just because I was younger when I first saw it and the exuberance just stayed with me. Henson's other big fantasy film, The Dark Crystal, is great.
posted 10-29-2001 11:01 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	I recently watched Legend (the European cut of course). The beginning was promising, but after some time, it started getting very strange and rather dumb. Of course, the European version isn't the true thing as well...
posted 10-29-2001 11:58 AM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	It seems that fantasy has either been dummed down...as with the films John mentioned at the get go or far too off the wall. There have been a few here and there...Willow being the foremost of the those that have even come close to what I call true fantasy. Lord of the Rings is of course the wellspring for most modern fantasy--my hopes are that the film has the same effect on the industry.
posted 10-29-2001 12:55 PM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	How about Dungeons and Dragons? Did you guys like that? The score was pretty good but but why does the bad guy have blue lips? I mean did he spend to much time in the pool or what.... Np: Night at the Movies (Brenden Anderson) ********/*** A genius he is! Jz
posted 10-29-2001 03:30 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Oscar® Winner	Of course nothing beats Ray Harryhausen's many fantasy films. Although the Stop Motion animation may seem outdated they are still enjoyable after all these years.
posted 10-29-2001 04:05 PM PT (US)

James Oscar® Winner	That Harryhausen's technique seems outdated now does not make it any less impressive. I still think those skeletons look cooler than anything they could do with CGI today.
posted 10-29-2001 08:19 PM PT (US)

James Oscar® Winner	John - If you have never seen it, I urge you to go out and rent The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (preferrably on DVD, simply because this movie needs to be watched in widescreen). This also goes for anyone else who has not seen it. If a better fantasy film has been released into the world, I have not seen it. (I had to choose my words carefully there... who knows what will happen in December). James
posted 10-29-2001 08:24 PM PT (US)

Chris Kinsinger Oscar® Winner	*YOWZA, Mr. Olivarez!* I still love Ray's flicks, and still have a greater appreciation for his artistic accomplishments than anything that's been done on a computer. YEAH, the dinos in the Jurassic Park movies look too realistic for words, and the overall quality of the visual effects has been tremendously improved via computer technology. There seems to be a kinetic energy that flows from the hands of the puppetmaster to his puppets...a personality of sorts, that I have yet to see in CGI. It's sad that Harryhausen & Schneer never once had a decent budget to work with until Clash Of The Titans, when both men were well beyond their prime. I believe that their love and devotion to film fantasy kept the genre alive until there was a true appreciation for it among the masses. Today's fantasy films are yesterday's "B" and "C" flicks, produced with A-list talent on both sides of the camera. I wish Harryhausen would do just one more film before departing this life. [Message edited by Chris Kinsinger on 10-29-2001]
posted 10-29-2001 08:25 PM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	It's obvious that mister John Zimmer hasn't seem too many fantasy movies in his life...
posted 10-29-2001 08:40 PM PT (US)

Pumpkinhead Oscar® Winner	Anyone remember those cool scenes with those evil warrior guys? I loved the way they merely drew themselves to the walls of the castle and started climbing. Also, look out for the great scene where everyone is in the forest and the evil warrior things rise out of the quicksand stuff. This is also where one of my favorite cues of music comes in.
posted 10-30-2001 09:11 AM PT (US)

Ken S Oscar® Winner	James, although I disagree with you on one particular film score I seem to AGREE with you on everything else - I also love those skeletons and all of the old stop motion stuff (and other old effects too) much more than todays CGI; people were so much more "innovative" those days - imagination was needed to accomplish new things and handiwork was appreciated !! And if you mean Terry Gilliam's THE ADVENTURES OF BARON MUNCHAUSEN, I was probably the ONLY person in Finland who loved the movie..! KEN
posted 10-30-2001 04:28 PM PT (US)

Hasta Oscar® Winner	Watched Willow recently and was surprised at how dated it has become. Of course Horner's score is still magnificent, but it was clearly a level or two above the images it was supporting. I too like Labyrnith, it was one of my favorite childhood films. And then there is The Neverending Story, which is one of the better fantasty films of the 80's. [Message edited by Hasta on 10-30-2001]
posted 10-30-2001 06:06 PM PT (US)

SCimmerian Oscar® Winner	Harryhausen fantasy films influenced more people in the effects industries than any other films.The quality and imagination of his stop-motion sequences have never been surpassed. I am still awestruck by his creative genius.I will never ever tier of watching his films. I have been lucky to have seen all of his classics on the big screen.Seeing the cyclopes come bounding out of a cave on a giant screen is really something to behold. And then there is the music of the master, Bernard Herrmann burning into my mind 7th Voyage of Sinbad is the purfect fantasy film score. Mysterious Island is just so damn great. Jason and the Argonauts, the power of Talos! Harryhausen/Herrmann nothing somes close to this combination of visual and music.True heroes,From the Land Beyond Beyond, From the World past Hope and Fear may their legasy last forever.
posted 10-30-2001 11:02 PM PT (US)

Richard Oscar® Winner	How many people here like Sci-Fi? I personally don't like it at all, except for the original POTA. But I'm just curious. Normally fantasy films don't really do it for me either, but there have been some fantastic ones, such as like Return to Oz.
posted 10-30-2001 11:39 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Hasta: *And then there is The Neverending Story, which is one of the better fantasty films of the 80's.* I should mention that Neverending Story is NOTHING compared to Michael Ende's novel on which it is based. It ends right in the middle of the story, and as far as I remember, the whole story and it's deeper meanings are totally crippled in the film (though I have to say that I haven't seen it in years). The second film is, loosely (as far as I remember) based on the rest of the book. I've never seen the third one.
posted 10-31-2001 05:24 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	Well Richard it depends on what you mean by "sci-fi" if you mean it like all sci-fi that would be for me a no or if you mean newer Sci'fi movies like Battlefield Earth and Wing Commander then no also for me. However if you mean Star Trek and Star Wars then YES!! Oh yeah I love it. I'm a dork and I love it! Oh yeah!! Np: Harry P and the Magical weird stone with 2 names. (John Williams) ************************************************/*** Jz
posted 10-31-2001 07:27 AM PT (US)

Hasta Oscar® Winner	Marian, I read the book when I was younger, but don't remember much of it now... Still, even if the film doesn't live up to the book, it's a great fantasy film for children.
posted 10-31-2001 08:11 AM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Hasta: Marian, I read the book when I was younger, but don't remember much of it now... Me neither. Shows that I should read it again! NP: The Final Conflict, Deluxe Edition (Jerry Goldsmith) ********/***
posted 10-31-2001 08:33 AM PT (US)

Chris Kinsinger Oscar® Winner	"Harryhausen fantasy films influenced more people in the effects industries than any other films." Absolutely! Awhile back, TNT featured a Harryhausen retrospective, and during the commercial breaks they included bits of interviews with many of today's top effects men, all of who were influenced by Ray's movies to make a career in the field of film effects. When I met Harryhausen & Schneer back in 1977, they discussed the fact that sci-fi and fantasy films were finally gaining mass popularity. Schneer said of the genre, "We like to think that we kept it alive." He had no idea how much influence he & Ray had!
posted 10-31-2001 08:23 PM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Oscar® Winner	I would have loved to have seen one more Sinbad movie from him. On the Mummy Returns DVD, the special effects guy mentions Ray and how they were influenced by him to create the final Scorpion King monster or something to that effect. [Message edited by Mark Olivarez on 11-01-2001]
posted 11-01-2001 10:16 AM PT (US)

Chris Kinsinger Oscar® Winner	One of the many projects that Ray Harryhausen dearly wanted to bring to the screen was an adaptation of H. G. Wells' The Food Of The Gods. I regret that he wasn't able to realize this particular dream, because it's one of my favorite Wells novels, and the Bert I. Gordon film that finally found its way into theatres is such a sorry mess. After the wonderful First Men In The Moon, which I think is one of Harryhausen & Schneer's finest (GREAT Laurie Johnson score!), it would have been so satisfying to see them adapt another Wells property. "I would have loved to have seen one more Sinbad movie from him." They had planned to film another one, called Sinbad On Mars...I can only imagine what might have been! [Message edited by Chris Kinsinger on 11-01-2001]
posted 11-01-2001 08:39 PM PT (US)

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