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Author	Topic: Sometimes you just have to admit when you were wrong...

Scott Oscar® Winner	...and this is that kind of thread, I suppose. A little over a year and a half ago I was discussing with Jeron and Aaron my reluctant taste for Elliot Goldenthal. After such scores as "Interview with a Vampire" which I liked and "Batman Forever" which I was so, so about, I decided that I just don't like the guys compositions. Aaron tried to convince me to give him another shot and simply listen to more of his scores. Reluctantly I did. I got "A time to Kill" and "Alien3", still wasn't too impressed. Then came "Final Fantasy". I was simply blown away. Then through the advice of you fine people here I got "Michael Collins". What can I say? Wow!!!!!!!!!! The guy is a genius. I am currently re-discovering Alien3 and A time to kill, but the man has defenetly made my list of favorite composers. In other words, Aaron and Jeron, you were right I was wrong. There, I admit it. Scott
posted 10-19-2001 12:11 PM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	I don't like Batman Forever either but I do enjoy Michael Collins. Haven't gotten Final Fantasy yet. I use to hate B forever with a vengence but now after a while I've warmed up to it. Np: Daylight (Randy Edelman) Jz
posted 10-19-2001 12:39 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	Cool! NP: Demolition Man (Elliot Goldenthal) - Funny enough, I hadn't played this in MONTHS, but it was already playing when I found this thread. Much better than I remembered, and excellent sound as well (as on all Goldenthal albums)
posted 10-19-2001 12:58 PM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	Good call Scott...Final Fantasy and Michael Collins are his two best works in my opinion. For me his previous works, while sporting some great material were inconsistent are too difficult for a complete listen. Collins and Fantasy are enjoyable as a whole, and I can't get enough. Here's hoping for more...
posted 10-19-2001 01:26 PM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	Better later than never, Scott. I have 9 Goldenthal's albums (2 are not scores). The guy is just great. But, keeping in the spirit of this thread, I have to admit something about Hans Zimmer. I always tought he was just bad. I was wrong. He is awful!! Thanks.
posted 10-19-2001 01:32 PM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	Andre, YOU SHALL DIE SCREAMING IN FIREY PAIN OH DERANGED MORTAL!! Where do you live? Sleep lightly my freind MHWA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAA! Np: Backdraft (HANS ZIMMER THE MASTER OF COMPOSITION!!!) Jz [Message edited by John Zimmer on 10-19-2001]
posted 10-19-2001 01:51 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	Well isn't THAT something... Bravo Scott!
posted 10-19-2001 02:06 PM PT (US)

SEBULBA Oscar® Winner	And let's not forget about Heat. Also a good score by Goldenthal.
posted 10-19-2001 02:24 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Quill: Final Fantasy and Michael Collins are his two best works in my opinion. I have yet to hear Michael Collins and Titus, but Final Fantasy takes place #2 in my list of Goldenthal favourites: Not as good as Sphere! NP: Urban Legend, Promo (Christopher Young)
posted 10-19-2001 02:33 PM PT (US)

Aaron Collins Oscar® Winner	Well, about time Scott! Aaron NP: Rouse: Concerto for Violencello
posted 10-19-2001 04:30 PM PT (US)

Tim_P Oscar® Winner	I've said it once, and I'll say it again: Everyone should own COBB- Goldenthal's best score. Tear-jerkingly-emotional, wild bombast, great jazz, interesting experimental sections, and a great dose of Americana (channeling his teacher Aaron Copland). It's still his most accomplished score- and I believe the one he himself is most proud of. It's out of print, though, so if any of you are interested in trading for a copy, e-mail me. Tim
posted 10-19-2001 05:12 PM PT (US)

dgoldwas Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Marian Schedenig: *I have yet to hear Michael Collins* and Titus, but Final Fantasy takes place #2 in my list of Goldenthal favourites: Not as good as Sphere!** While I thought the film was just godawful (although it was visually impressive), TITUS boasted a powerful and emotional score. It was an inventive and stunninly original work that stood out as one of the best film scores of 1999. Damn. I'm quoting myself again. Dan
posted 10-19-2001 05:18 PM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by John Zimmer: Np: Backdraft (HANS ZIMMER THE MASTER OF COMPOSITION!!!) Forcing me to listen to such unberable crap would be the ultime torture!!! Fire is piece of cake next to it...
posted 10-19-2001 06:27 PM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	Ooooooooh that's it tries to look tough Jz
posted 10-19-2001 08:56 PM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by John Zimmer: *tries to look tough* Jz Who? You or me?
posted 10-19-2001 09:10 PM PT (US)

Richard Oscar® Winner	Hmmmm, I thought this may have been a Home Alone related thread, but anyway... quote: Originally Posted by Scott: The guy is a genius Yep. I'd say you were right. André, you said that two of his albums weren't scores. What are they off and are they readily available? I would love to hear some of his work outside of film music. I have 8 of his scores, the only one I have difficulties with is The Butcher Boy. Also, is there an expanded version of Sphere? NP: The Truman Show - Dallwitz/Glass
posted 10-20-2001 02:50 AM PT (US)

Hasta Oscar® Winner	Not to get off track, but Andre what exactly makes Backdraft "such unberable crap"??? Details, please. NP: K-Pax (Shearmur)
posted 10-20-2001 03:01 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	Good question Hasta. I second the question. Jz
posted 10-20-2001 06:15 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	Oh and that was me trying to look tough. tries again but gives up in desperation when he gets some odd looks from the people around Jz
posted 10-20-2001 06:21 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Richard: André, you said that two of his albums weren't scores. What are they off and are they readily available? One is his concert entitled "FIRE WATER PAPER: A VIETNAM ORATORIO" (from Sony Classical) and the other is the score for the OTHELO ballet (from Varese). Both outstanding!
posted 10-20-2001 09:54 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Hasta: Not to get off track, but Andre what exactly makes Backdraft "such unberable crap"??? Halzimmer's noise, of course.
posted 10-20-2001 09:57 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	How can it be noise? Do you not like the theme? Do you not like the orchestration?What? What? What? And don't say his unbearable noise that's like saying that you don't like it 'cause. Jz [Message edited by John Zimmer on 10-20-2001]
posted 10-20-2001 10:32 AM PT (US)

SFT Oscar® Winner	I think we all know it is useless to argue with André when it comes to Zimmer. There is no changing his mind... I´m not a big fan of Goldenthal myself, although I do think his Alien 3 is a good score - but I´m curious Andre, what are his works for the concert hall like? I´ve heard of his ballet, but he´s written quite a few works, right? I even heard something about an opera once... ? SFT NP: Hook, John Williams **/***
posted 10-20-2001 12:11 PM PT (US)

Aaron Collins Oscar® Winner	His concert works are actually less violent(maybe not a good word.) More along the lines of tamer. I own most of his concert works, and have played and conducted several of his chamber works. I think Goldenthal's concert works are magnificent and definitely pick up all the ones that are available. If you have any questions, email me. Take care, Aaron NP: Takemitsu
posted 10-20-2001 07:58 PM PT (US)

Spicy Ramen Oscar® Winner	Listening on someones recommendation never hurt anyone. In fact, that is how I got introduced to composers such as Howard Shore{/b] and [b]Patrick Doyle, whom I would probably never bought their cds.
posted 10-20-2001 08:53 PM PT (US)

Camillu Oscar® Winner	I took a keen interest in Goldenthal this summer. I must say my favourite scores of his are: Cobb - very, very impressive. Made me want to see the film to see how the score works. Final Fantasy - Just as good as I expected it to be. Typical Goldenthal bombast, and all very listenable. Michael Collins - My first Goldenthal score, and probably his best work yet. Interview with the Vampire - Some parts are stunning, some less so. This is the one I listen to least, but I feel I just need to give it more time. P.S. Titus is still on my 'To Buy' list....
posted 10-21-2001 04:55 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by John Zimmer: How can it be noise? Do you not like the theme? Do you not like the orchestration?What? What? What? I don't like anything, of course. How could I? Besides, we can't call everybody playing the same notes at the same time "orchestration".
posted 10-22-2001 10:48 AM PT (US)

John Zimmer Oscar® Winner	You're lost shakes head in despair oh well you like John Williams that saves you. Jz
posted 10-22-2001 11:34 AM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by André Lux: ...we can't call everybody playing the same notes at the same time "orchestration". Help! I am agreeing with Andre! Help! Scott
posted 10-22-2001 12:37 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	Doesn't orchestration imply that an orchestra is involved on some level? Someone correct me if I'm wrong (Aaron?), but by definition, isn't "orchestration" the organization and representation of instruments within the music and the arrangement of music itself. Wouldn't the pseudo-term "synthezation" work better when discussing the instrumental properties and arrangements of music within a film score like Backdraft? Just a thought... Jeron [Message edited by Jeron on 10-22-2001]
posted 10-22-2001 01:12 PM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	Welcome to the André Lux Fan Club, Scott!! And this reminds me of a great joke: HOW MANY HANZIMMERS DO YOU NEED TO REPLACE A LAMP? JUST ONE. BUT 14 ORCHESTRATORS TO ROTATE THE CHAIR...
posted 10-22-2001 05:43 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	ROFL! NP: The Final Conflict, Deluxe Edition (Jerry Goldsmith)
posted 10-22-2001 05:53 PM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	Well Jeron, if you look on the cd it does list orchestrators. Andre, your bad. Lol Scott
posted 10-22-2001 07:17 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	Well Scott, Sometimes MV folk list composers who write additional music as orchestrators. Gotta credit them somehow without invalidating Z's path of glory... Jeron [Message edited by Jeron on 10-22-2001]
posted 10-22-2001 07:27 PM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	Jeron, how Z can sleep at night is beyond me. Scott
posted 10-23-2001 08:16 AM PT (US)

Lancelot Oscar® Winner	Doesn't seem to be saying a lot.
posted 10-23-2001 12:09 PM PT (US)

justin boggan Oscar® Winner	"Sometimes you just have to admit when you were wrong..." No you don't! Who told you that?
posted 10-23-2001 02:46 PM PT (US)

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