KS

Np: Mighty Ducks 3 (J.A.C. Redford) ****/*****

quote:

---

Originally posted by TimT:
and Look Down Lord was unappropriate
[Message edited by TimT on 09-27-2001]

---

What do you mean with that statement TimT?

Np: Jurrasic Park III (Don Davis & Consaltation by John Williams) ****/*****

I no longer like that opening "Superman Theme" I think its both versions.
Other than that I like everthing from Superman that leads upto the part when Clark Kent is shown grown up in the Fotress of Solitude in the suit. Its also my favorite parts of the movie those first 45 mins and on CD I like listening to all the music that leads upto that point. I think its brilliant music! But after that first 45 mins, I usually stop the CD unless I wanna hear the Love Theme, which is also nice.

Scott RE: Look Down Lord

Well I try to be careful what I play there. And I don't think I should play anything religious, as it might be offensive to some.
Once I realised the lyrics to The Omen suite which is on the Goldsmith compliation from Silva that I also played there, I immediatly took it off. Even I found that one offensive!

[Message edited by TimT on 09-29-2001]

while I appreciate your sensitivity in you not playing both Look Down Lord and the Omen, I am bothered by it. It seems there are two issues here. First off: The cue Look Down Lord is film music. While it certainly is religious based (spiritual actually), it's still part of a score to a movie. I have heard Hindu based, Muslim based, Jewish based scores several times. As a man of faith (Christian faith to be exact) I have never been bothered by this. My faith is strong enough not to be offended by music that might represent other peoples believes. Yet it seems, play something that even remotely signals anything about Jesus Christ needs to be stopped for those who seem to be rather insecure in their own blieves. After all, we all worship something. Those who profess to be atheist in believe (although that really doesn't exist dogmatically) do worship man, whether they want to admit that or not. It is amazing how a minority, in a society that prides itself on democratic principles (although in itself a republic), can hinder the free expression of others (who at present are still quite a majority). Yet again, I applaud your sensitivity in this manner. You are a much better man than I am (and I say that without any sarcasm).

About the Omen. Yes, the lyrics are quite shocking, yet they do make sense in the context of the film. A film about Satan. A film about the evil nature of Satan and the Antichrist. In that respect, the lyrics do the film very much justice. Besides, it is a movie. Not a sermont. Yes, believe it or not, even God knows the difference between imagination and reality. I know, I know, this may be shocking, but it is the truth. Besides, I doubt very many people in a movie theater know yet alone understand latin.

Look, we all need to just grow up and stop being a bunch of cry babies offeneded by every darn word that comes out of anyones mouth. I'm a deeply faith based man, but if you say Jesus Christ was the biggest idiot on this planet, so what? It does't bother me. In the end we all will know the truth. Let's just say whatever we want, in a respectful, non-(personal) insulting way. If we cant do that, might as well change the whole country around and leave democracy to one of the great experiments of the 20th century.

Please don't get me wrong. I rather keep this message board geard towards film music, but...well, you know what I mean.

It goes without saying that if you feel offeneded by what I just said, I am sorry it wasn't intended that way.

Scott

NP: The Musketeer

It's kind of funny though, on my side. I find the Omen chants to be some of the most amazing score writing ever. I could listen to it forever. But, that's just me. I got a warped personality, at least that's what some say.

Scott

I had never heard the music nor seen the film - and in fact I couldn't even cared for less; I had strong doubts about the film and the music. Then Goldsmith came to Finland in 1993 to conduct couple of concerts of his own music. When I heard the Suite from THE OMEN performed LIVE - my doubts were history; I was spellbound to the music and to the fact that any Finnish orchestra and chorus could perform a piece of music so powerfully, so perfectly. And thus I had to purchase THE OMEN soundtrack immediately - and ever since I have considered it one of the most original works by Goldsmith.

BUT, what comes to the film THE OMEN - my doubts seem to have been the right-ones: I have tryied to watch it many times "seriously", but it just seems to be one of the most annoying films ever made - not HORRIFIC, simply DULL (and even the Goldsmith-music intact makes me giggle to certain scenes where the audience should feel terror)... Besides, I like more DAMIEN: OMEN II - it's simply better and less dull. But THE FINAL CONFLICT - yyeekk, it is the most stupid one of all the three originals (- I even consider OMEN IV: THE AWAKENING better than CONFLICT; plus it has a very original and wondrously melodic score by Jonathan Sheffer).

quote:

---

Originally posted by TimT:
Well anyway back to the original topic RE: John Williams -a legend. (John Williams Greatest Hits 1969-1999).
Personaly I prefer to listen to Disc 2. What about you all?

---

And sorry about being again slightly off the topic - next time I try to post something about Williams

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard:
I hope I'm not raining on anyone's parade, but I'm never gonna buy another John Williams CD for any more than a buck!

---

Now why is that Richard?

I don't know about Yen or Euro or any other currency for that matter.
I'm on the anti-John Williams bandwagon.

I wasn't always this way, but whenever I bought a JW cd, I'm ultimately left disappointed. I can't bring myself to trade any of them in though because they look nice on my rack. I will say that I do enjoy Jaws and Jurassic Park a reasonable amount though.
The guy is obviously talented, but I still think he's over rated and his music often bores me outside of the main titles.

It's also because I'll buy almost anything for less than one Australian dollar, fifty three of your American cents or thirty three British pence.

Since the day I began collecting Williams and others, I have compiled manymany compilations for my own delight - and with these I have learned, and I have to admit, that it is a very difficult task to create a good John Williams compilation (so much magical themes, music and cues). BUT NOT an impossible one to achieve. Take a look at the program below and say, WOULD YOU PURCHASE a compilation like this if it was released commercially..?

JOHN WILLIAMS: OVER THE MOON
Only the Most Magical and Wanted

E.T. THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL:
"Magic Suite"
1. Over the Moon
2. E.T.'s Halloween & Flying
3. E.T. and Me (Excerpt)
4. The Departure (Excerpt)
HOOK:
5. End Title (Excerpt)
AMAZING STORIES:
6. Main Title
SUPERMAN, THE MOVIE:
7. The Penthouse (Excerpt)
8. The Flying Sequence (Excerpt)
9. The Prison Yard (Excerpt)
SABRINA:
10. In the Moonlight
FAMILY PLOT:
11. End Credits (Excerpt; The Utah Symphony Orchestra re-recording)
HOW TO STEAL A MILLION:
12. Main Title
THE REIVERS:
"Magic Suite" (edited from a suite recording by the Boston Pops)*
13. The First Car in Town
14. To Memphis
15. The Horse Race
AMAZING STORIES: THE MISSION
16. The Landing
CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND:
17. "Bye" and End Titles (Including When You Wish Upon a Star)
JURASSIC PARK:
18. Theme from Jurassic Park
19. My Friend, the Brachiosaurus (Excerpt)
HOOK:
20. Flight to Neverland (Excerpt)
RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK:
21. To Cairo (Excerpt)
22. The Warehouse
23. The Raiders' March
SUPERMAN, THE MOVIE:
24. Prologue & Main Title
STAR WARS:
25. Main Theme Finale (The Utah Symphony Orchestra re-recording)
LOST IN SPACE (The TV Series):
26. Main Title (Season II)
FAMILY PLOT:
27. End Credits (Authentic Complete Movie Version)
SPACE CAMP:
28. End Credits (Excerpt; Authentic Complete Movie Version)
29. End Credits (The Cincinnati Pops re-recording)
RETURN OF THE JEDI:
31. The Ewok Celebration '83 (Excerpt; The National Philharmonic instrumental version)
32. Victory Celebration '97 (Excerpt from the Special Edition 1997)
AMAZING STORIES: THE MISSION (and NBC NEWS):
33. Mission Theme
E.T THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL:
34. End Credits (The Special Edition version)
AMAZING STORIES:
35. End Title

(This all takes about 92 minutes to include. Some of the cues are edited together. The EXCERPT simply means that the music has been cut from a larger body of music. *Track titles by myself.)
(I haven't indicated all the re-recordings...)

So - what would you say if this kind of compilation would "see the light of day" ? It happens that this specific compilation has been over "Ten Years in the Making" and I call it "The Ultimate John Williams Magic Edition - forget the typical compilation albums, this is NOT one of them !!"

KEN

PS. If you wonder where the rest of the classics are - my "John Williams Collection" includes at this point 12 different "themed" compilations... ADVENTURES ON EARTH (The most freshest and wildest of Williams)...NIGHT JOURNEYS (The most chilling and thrilling of Williams)...REMEMBRANCES (The most beautiful and noble of Williams)...etc.

[Message edited by Ken S on 10-02-2001]

I guess maybe one common factor has to be that the cue is in a major key and have strings or horns in a high register.
I like your other theme titles, though, they're very clever.

I find it difficult to make a decent Williams compilation CD without it ending up organized like the legitimate releases. His concert arrangements on the score albums are always a great summation of what the score has to offer thematically (for the most part) so when I'm trying to get as much on a CD as possible, the ol' concert arrangement track is usually my best choice. Case in point: 7 YEARS IN TIBET, ANGELA'S ASHES, SABRINA, ACCIDENTAL TOURIST, and STEPMOM all have tracks (end credits or concert-ized tracks) which pretty much contain all the thematic material from the body of the score. When they show up on Williams legit compilation albums it's usually for that reason alone that they were selected.

As far as John Williams is concerned and being dissapointed. I really don't know what you guys are talking about. Sure there are some scores that are not that much of a listening experiences, but AI is a jewel. Gosh, every track on that score is awesome. Certainly blows some of the rather blant scores we have been dished up these days right out of the water.

(I really don't know what the track is called officially, neither that was it included in the film, but anyway) I consider "The First Car in Town" and "To Memphis" tracks from THE REIVERS as THE very first ones containing that "Magical Williams Flying Sound" which he later used on THE TOWERING INFERNO (Main Title), FAMILY PLOT (End Credits), SUPERMAN THE MOVIE (throughout the entire score), JAWS 2 (The Catamaran Race), E.T. THE EXTRA TERRESTRIAL (obviously), AMAZING STORIES (Main Title & The Mission), SPACECAMP (End Credits), and even on THE ACCIDENTAL TOURIST (End Credits) and STANLEY & IRIS (The Bicycle Ride), etc...
As I can't speak in music terms, I can't say what particularly makes these different themes so similar in "sound" - if you have the chance, please check them out.

It's funny that I don't consider the "Imaginary Air Battle" as magical as the others I've mentioned - I prefer "Jim's New Life" containing more of the type of "magic sound"; it's something to do with the "freshness" and naturally the pace of the music, as flying, soaring..! "Imaginary Air Battle" is much more softer, yes, beautiful, but not soaring enough to make it on my compilation. With "JOHN WILLIAMS: OVER THE MOON" I wanted to create a wholeness that really takes the listener "over the moon", and yet presents all those cues which (I think) a film music lover notices while watching a particular movie... I even had to drop some of my own "magical" Williams favorites like "For Gillian" from THE FURY and earlier-mentioned "Jim's New Life" and "The Catamaran Race", to keep the compilation within its principal theme.

I agree with you, Frank, that it is very hard to get one track from Williams fantasy score to represent the entire score - that has been my own crusade with my own compilations, until I understood to cut out all the unnecessary parts of the themes and make up new "suites" - and all the time remembering the importance of continuity*, thus making separate compilations of "different kind of music". Well, again speaking in music terms, John Williams himself might be shocked discovering how I have cut out this & that from his themes - but really, it would be very nice to see some record producer to DO this (nowadays those guys do so bizarre re-mixes and stuff like it, so it wouldn't be an impossible thing). Record producers should really forget the "art" and the usual standards, and boldly use their imagination in creating new compilations.
(*In my opinion it is horrible sequencing when on a compilation there's "Theme from SCHINDLER'S LIST" and "The COWBOYS Overture" side by side. In my opinion a good album - whatever it is - should be build up in that way that the listener doesn't want to skip a single track on the compilation. - Although, original soundtracks are in my opinion an exception to the rule; soundtracks REALLY should represent the AUTHENTIC music in the authentic order - in my opinion, again).

One of my future attempts is getting to produce compilations such as these - really

although I noticed only couple of hours ago that "Where Dreams Are Born" and "For Always" ARE excellent, evocative pieces by Williams, I still have to be a party-booper and say that A.I. the original album is a terrible wholeness. I do understand that Williams wants to create a "listening experience", but still, both in artistic & musical terms I simply can't understand why the tracks are sequenced the way they are (- and that DUET !!! arghhh!!! the soundtrack would survive without it).

Scott, I say it once again that (in my opinion) ORIGINAL SOUNDTRACKS should contain the music of the movie and NOT a new interpretation of the original cues ("Rouge City" being the ultimate disappointment) - and SOUNDTRACKS should atleast TRY to follow the narrative of the movie (which A.I. the soundtrack does not do).

But yes, as a composer John Williams is a talented guy

I actually agree with you. While I understand the reasons behind changing some of the cues and representing certain aspects of the score into what is generally called concert pieces, I wish Williams wouldn't do it. I would rather have the authentic soundtrack and in order would be very nice indeed.

I think Williams does this because he is not really a Hollywood trained composer but an East Coast more classical trained one. I may be wrong and this is not to diss any other composers out there.

Sorry I miseread your original statement. Overall, I do agree with what you have to say.

Scott