But his preaching makes a good entry for those interested in knowing the right-wing-white-power extremists' point of views about life in general...

It would be amusing if it wasn't so scary!

quote:

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Originally posted by Scott:
Hey Andre,

why don't you stand for a couple of minutes in silence for the way your government treats the Inidans? Or how it has done so in the past?

True, my country has done many mistakes. But, why don't you get your house in order before you start pointing the finger, for your government is not much better.

Scott

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Sorry Scott, but you obviously missed the entire point. No one here is trying to say that THIS government is better than THAT one.

On the contrary. I feel really ashamed of the people who are in charge of Brasil in the last 100 years. It's all the same people, kissing the butts of the "superiors" from other nations. In the beggining was Portugal, then England. Now it's USA and its ill IMF.

But in the other hand, Brasil didn't proclaim itself the "sheriff of the planet" (sic) just as an excuse to invade and destroy other cultures and forms of governments.

Andre Lux likes to keep referring to me as a "white power extremist" when in fact, he is the one who is a racist against black-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, Arab-Americans, and all other Americans who died in this tragedy, and who today are united behind their country and leadership. He is a racist who applauds terrorists, applauds totalitarian despots and any other form of evil so long as their targets are Americans (which even leads to his approval of Fascist Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor, which tells who the real Hitler lover in this forum is and it isn't me it's Andre). He has demonstrated not one drop of sympathy for the victims of this tragedy because it is all too clear that he was cheering in excitement when the Towers were hit. Instead, he has tried to push the notion that the terrorism was caused by "white Americans" which IMO requires the response of Tommy Lee Jones from "The Fugitive", "Care to revise your bullshit statement?"

Having nearly lost a cousin in those towers who had to go down 82 flights of stairs and who was nearly killed by falling debris, an who is still shaken up by this tragedy, and having lost a college classmate of mine, Todd Beamer, who gave his life to save others by rushing the hijackers, I make no apologies for expressing the total hate and contempt I feel for this bullshit artist Andre, who can keep performing his Lewinsky job on Stalin, Hitler and Bin Laden statues to his heart's content since that's clearly the only joy he ever gets in his worthless pathetic life.

Thank God for people like Mr. Beamer. A true hero indeed.

Why should André shut up before those manufactured arguments Paddon use?

After all, André is off topic like you, me and everybody in this thread, but he is not wrong: the historical info Andre posted here is extremely precise.

Posted by Eric:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>
The only thing this event is from his standpoint is another opportunity to express his racist hatred of America and his cruel insensitivity toward the victims of this tragedy.
<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

If Andre really thinks this way, there's no problem. He is free to choose who he likes or does not.

Now that we've grieved enough on this board about the terrorist attacks, it's time to get back to business here. After all, New Yorkers are getting back to business - why can't we do it here?

In short, this is not some freak idea to shut anyone up because s/he holds any truths about American foreign policy. I am not an idiot, and I don't like being lied to, that's all.

quote:

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Originally posted by PeterK:
Andre, stick to your word if you can. Thanks.

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I said I would stop talking about it while only the right-wing-white-power extremists continue to drop their puke here.

Besides I only posted a peace message, using John Lennon's great song IMAGINE - just to be called names by Adolf Paddon once more...

But since there are others who share my vision of the facts - as wisiti, Timmer, Soundtracker, etc - posting here I felt it would be ok for me to join the discussion again.

Thanks.

quote:

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Originally posted by Eric Paddon:
The idea that this "affects" Andre in any way is a crock. The only thing this event is from his standpoint is another opportunity to express his racist hatred of America and his cruel insensitivity toward the victims of this tragedy.

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Lier.
He knows I love USA. My favourite composer is Jerry Goldsmith (an USA native) and I find Boston one of the most beautiful cities I've ever visited. Besides I have some very good friends from USA - and they agree with me about this whole subject, proving that there's inteligent life!

The only thing I despise is right-wing-white-power extremists - from whatever country they come, even from my own.
And that's why they hate me so much and desperate try to twist my words, as anyone can notice here...

P.S.: Earth is round.

quote:

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Originally posted by PeterK:
[B]Let's face it: Andre (and hundreds of others, not to mention one Osama bin Laden) has a lot of hatred for America..... /B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by PeterK:
Andre, you said "Ok, no more war talk. It's scary." I have the email.

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Yeah, it's still scary but now I want to talk about it, ok? Specially now that other inteligent folks have joined this important discussion.

I am sure SOME people are reading what's being discussed here and having second thoughts about the whole issue, instead of just follow the usual right-wing extremists' rhetoric.

Thanks.

Like I said above:

Sounds just like the comment an anti-Semite makes when he says "Some of my best friends are Jewish" and in the process only confirms once again his own racism. Which is manifest for all to see in Andre's racist hatred of the United States, its people, its culture, its history, its institutions, and its leadership.

Yeah, Andre, yeah. That's about as credible a comment as those of that Flat Earth Society you belong to since intellectually, you are on the same level as all of them. And BTW, what happened to your bogus claim about people in the Middle Ages getting burned for saying the world was round? Is that another BS statement you'd care to revise, along with your assertion that white Americans plotted this incident? Along with your peculiar declaration that the "Seven Deadly Sins" applies only to Christians, when in fact as part of the OT it applies to Jews and Muslims?

>And it's not my fault that Osama Bin Laden >turned against the ones who financed his >terrorist army in the first place!!

We funded the mujahadeen, of which Bin Laden was only a small player, against a Soviet Army that committed genocide in Afghanistan, and was an action that the entire civilized world supported at the time when it came to American funding of the mujahadeen. Smearing all Afghans in the mujahadeen with being a part of Bin Laden's operation now indicates that your racism extends beyond the United States to all Afghans as well it would seem, since you now equate any Afghan who fought against the Soviets as being automatically part of Bin Laden's organization. For shame, Andre!

quote:

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they agree with me about this whole subject, proving that there's inteligent life!

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Meanwhile, you misspell "intelligent."
Smooth move, Ex-lax.

quote:

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Originally posted by JJH:

Meanwhile, you misspell "intelligent."
Smooth move, Ex-lax.

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Stifling a laugh....

quote:

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Originally posted by JJH:
Meanwhile, you misspell "intelligent."
Smooth move, Ex-lax.

---

Hehehehehe... at least I can make myself clear in more than one language!

André Lux, the one hated by right-wing-white-power extremists who feel the need to point my typo erros in the lack of a real argument...

Come on, I think it's time for those who want to carry on this conversation to take this elsewhere to a "Right Wingers Vs. Left Wingers Political Forum," if that's what this really is all about.

I'll make the first move and find one such forum:

Off you go

quote:

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Originally posted by Eric Paddon:
We funded the mujahadeen, of which Bin Laden was only a small player, against a Soviet Army that committed genocide in Afghanistan,

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You mean, the same kind of genocide USA committed directly on Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Laos, Camboja, Iraq and indirectly (through monetary and military support) to East Timor, Nicaragua, Chile, Peru, El Salvador, Brasil, etc, etc, etc...

But I see. Eric Paddon only consider "genocide" things done by USA enemies. When it's done by USA itself or one of its drones he calls it "Help".

Indeed is impossible to "argue" with such narrow minded and obtuse person, who consider himself part of the "superior race" which have the right to do whatever they want in the name of "freedom" and the "american way"...

I rest my case now. It's worthless.

Please Adolf, feel free to call me whatever names you want.

quote:

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Originally posted by PeterK:
PeterK, the moderator who's pathetic enough to tolerate this thread.

---

Andre now demonstrates that his lips are chapped from kissing the behinds of Hitler and his Japanese fascist allies in making this remark. America used the bomb to end the war to save lives and thank God they did. Those who call that "genocide" shame the victims of the Rape of Nanking, of Pearl Harbor, of the Bataan Death March, and of Japan's shameful "comfort women" experiment of selling Phillipine and Korean women into slavery as sex objects.

>Vietnam, Laos, Camboja,

More kissing up now of totalitarian despots like Ho Chi Minh and Pol Pot who produced a Holocaust in Southeast Asia once they had the opportunity to implement their visions. All the organized atrocities associated with the war in Indochina rest with the communist side, not the American one. Whether the Hue massacre of 3000 shot in the back or buried alive, the maiming and torturing of Prisoners of War, the tragedy of the Boat People or the Holocaust of the Khmer Rouge, they all had one thing in common. They were caused by the enemies that America tried to defeat.

Nicaragua and El Salvador? Two democracies that emerged thanks to American efforts in funding the contra freedom fighters and the legitimate government of El Salvador. I guess Andre has to demonstrate his asskissing of Danny Ortega, whom the people of Nicaragua voted out when given a chance to vote freely, and the terrorists of El Salvador who could never muster more than 5% in a legitimate election since the people of El Salvador have never had any desire to rename their country "Greater Cuba."

As always, Andre Lux reveals that there is no limit to the depths of his racism against Americans of all colors and beliefs. So long as they're Americans, you can count on Andre to cheer on those who will try to murder and kill them just as he has done all through this thread. He's made it abundantly clear that after kissing the butts of totalitarians like Hitler, the Imperial Japanese, Stalin, Mao and Ho, he's now applying his chapstick for a new round of kissing Bin Laden's ass.

Like a cornered rat, Andre must resort to his desperate and bogus charge of "white power" when criticizing those who call his real racism against Americans of all colors and religions for what it is, yet curiously he has never had the guts to document one instance of my writing or any other writing of alleged "racism" on my part or any one else's. OTOH, his own racism is there for all to see in the form of his hatred for all Americans whatever their ethnic background, who take pride in their country, their history and in their leadership.

Andre Lux's racism represents the same kind of racist hatred that filled the hearts of those who murdered 6500 people on September 11, including my classmate Todd Beamer, and who nearly murdered untold thousands more in the World Trade Center who narrowly escaped with their lives, like my cousin. Just as those terrorists see America as the "Great Satan" so too does Andre in his warped racist mind, which compels him to defend and support any form of totalitarianism and terrorism that has ever existed. And like his heroes Adolf and Uncle Joe, it requires him to practice and perfect the techniques of the Big Lie in order to try and have any hope of making an impression on anyone else.

Wrong again, Andre. All I did was post the lyrics of a greater song then Johnny's paean to totalitarianism, "God Bless The USA" by Lee Greenwood. And then I merely quoted something from the Wall Street Journal that aptly summed up the feelings of all Americans at this time that talking about "peace" after an act of war has been committed against them is the kind of talk only an idiot would make (their words). Which then prompted another racist hate-America screed from you.

To say that Andre knows anything about the effects of US foreign policy is roughly akin to saying that the late Orson Welles knew anything about maintaining his waistline.

It isn't despicable to lump Andre and Bin Laden in the same sentence, because Andre feels the same hatred for Americans that Bin Laden does. Andre has not once posted on this thread one drop of sympathy for the United States, for the families of these victims, for the people who will carry these scars for the rest of our lives, or any sense of appreciation for the heroes of this tragedy, be they Todd Beamer and the passengers of Flight 93, the police and firemen and rescue workers in New York and Washington, or for the men in uniform who now are willing to take up the challenge in defense of their country.

Instead Andre's participation in this forum has consisted of the following:

1-To cheer the peace that came over one thread involving Peter and General Thade in the wake of the terrorist attack.

2-To instantly accuse "white Americans" of being responsible for the terrorist attack and how we should look to some dumbass conspiracy movie for insight into what happened and then to say with a straight face that the media was taking such a charge seriously.

3-To once again unleash a disgusting torrent of hate for America's President, who now has the highest approval rating of any President in American history.

4-To mock and ridicule every American who has felt motivated to express their patriotism and love of country as part of their binding together in the wake of this act of war committed against them.

5-To repeat a laundry list of bullshit accusations concerning American conduct in the world, and lending his voice to the fruitcake minority that blames America for bringing on this act of war against them.

6-To mock and shame the victims of September 11 by saying America should be more guilty over its ending the war against a militaristic fascist Japanese regime in 1945; or its effort to save Indochina from genocide and Stalinism; or its support of Israel against terrorists and aggressor nations through the decades.

7-To express his racist view that all members of the mujahadeen who fought against Soviet invasion and Soviet genocide are now all part of Bin Laden's operation.

8-To express his racist hatred of all Americans, White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Arab, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Liberal, Conservative, Republican, Democrat alike who have come together to do their part for the victims of this tragedy and who are willing to see this nation do what is necessary to eradicate the terrorist threat that made this possible.

OK, OK...I've heard enough!
Making fun of fat people CROSSES THE LINE!

OK?

OK!

I draw the line at Idi Amin and Hermann Goering however.

All I know is...I think they're ALL GORGEOUS, no matter WHAT SIZE they may be!

Eric approached my comments with the right tone and argument and left me with little to disagree with. But I will try a more detailed answer.

I don't know much about Chomsky in relation to Cambodia and am not sure why he would ignore the obvious. It is obvious to me that Chomsky has a political agenda and might be willing to mold facts to suit it while ignoring facts that run counter to his views, but he's not the only one to report on the major objective of US foreign policy in the Middle East.

I think US policy towards Israel has changed since 1948.

In '48, the Allies felt guilt over the Holocaust, the Brit empire was collapsing in India and elsewhere and they couldn't afford its colony in Palestine, and the world community wanted to show how the UN could be an effective organization. All of this resulted in the establishment of Israel as a state.

The Israelis had a claim on the territory going back a few thousand years but so many rulers from the Romans on had occupied the place that it really didn't belong to anybody. Personally, I think the Jewish homeland should have been elsewhere like Fiji or Florida instead of this ancient land surrounded by enemies but hey it wasn't my decision.

In '48, the Israelis tried to include the existing arab population but instead the arabs started a war which the Israelis won. The arabs left to live in surrounding countries and that should have been the end of it, with no legitimate claims for a Palestinian homeland, but of course, it wasn't.

Martha Gellhorn, in her great collection of essays, The Face of War, wrote back in the early 60s that she saw the Israelis as noble and the arabs as violent and felt that Israel should remain firm against them.

I agree that Arafat is a terrorist, and the terror did wear Israel down to the point where they were willing to grant Arafat a great deal in exchange for some rest. This happened, but the promised peace didn't come, and the Israelis are justifiably pissed.

Many on the left who love the underdog and are always critical of the US as the bulwark of capitalism, have painted the US and Israelis as stacking the deck against the Palestinians: giving them space that can't be lived on, making it impossible for arabs to work in Israel, attacking them with military force that forces the arabs to "defend" themselves with suicide killers since they are the weaker, put-upon group that doesn't have troops or attack helicopters, etc.

I can't go along with this view of their situation. These people could go about their lives in the countries they moved to in '48 and just live and let live and they simply won't.

But getting back to the US and Israel since '48.

First, I think the US is right to support Israel. Pat Buchanan before and many now are saying that if we didn't support Israel the arabs wouldn't have emnity with us. Today, bigots, when they aren't hurting anyone who looks brown, also say they don't want to die in a fight "for Jews". Still, in addition to supporting the concepts that brought Israel into being in '48, I think the US does see Israel as a wedge against the Middle East. Sure, it makes arabs mad at us, but the arabs know that Israel is a base and aircraft carrier right next door that can always be used to keep them in line if they should stop the oil flow to the west. And I think it's this practical aspect of the country's position that informs US policy towards Israel--we support Israel more for our own aganda rather than out of the original moral purpose of '48.

I don't think we cared if the arabs hated us or had any fear of them as long as the arab people themselves didn't deny us oil. The Shah and Sadat may not have had as much hatred for Israel, but I don't think that made any difference to us. I could be wrong, I just don't have enough of the facts or have devoted myself to enough of the reading required to get the true gen about what's going on there, but I think we'll support anyone that keeps the oil flowing and suppress anyone we think will stop it. I think love or hatred against Israel is not a factor the US policy makers really care about.

I also don't think the attack on Bin Laden requires air strikes and ground troops, probably just good intelligence and a team with a sniper rifle. An all out war to secure Afghanistan is going to cost a lot of innocent US and muslims their lives. I think we're doing a Dresden, overdestroying a target to impress another group with fear. Here, we're planning to level things with force to make a point to the arab world at large.

Obviously something needs to be done to protect us from future atacks and keep nukes out of terrorist hands. So, I'm not against solid action. I never said otherwise and I'm impressed by many of the actions already taken by the intelligence community and international police. Still, I'm in total fear and concern over the new laws and police freedoms being asked for in this country.

On a recent episode of Politically Incorrect, a black author whose last name was Dyson made the distinction between patriotism and nationalism. I looked up both words in the dictionary. Patriotism is love of country, but nationalism is a narrow, excessive, jingoistic patriotism that puts your country's concerns over any international considerations. And while there has been a positive patriotic response out of the American people, I see a lot of unhealthy nationalism arising that isn't going to do us or the world good in the long run.

This is one reason that I can't agree with following the leaders and Bush in particular just because the country is in a crisis. I don't like Bush, I think he's an idiot that is likely to make wrong moves for this country and I can't just put aside this opinion/feeling, my skepticism, or my need to watch this government and administration like a hawk. I think following some BS preceedent from WW2 about supporting your leaders simply to help to get the job done can be detrimental in the long run. I don't trust this government as far as I can throw it and many people are taking advantage of the situation to ask for powers or get money or create plans of action I don't want them to have.

And the percentages don't prove reality: just because a majority supports something doesn't make it right. I think now, especially since the govt is making demands of our men, economy, freedoms, and normal ways of living, it is a time for increased observation and criticism of our government not for some putting aside of our critical faculties and giving the government a blank check to do with as they please.

It's probably too late to return to the US of the past when it wasn't a superpower policing the world. Martha Gellhorn again said that it was morally appalling that we didn't step into WW2 until forced to and allowed the Nazis a 12 year reign of terror before they were stopped. We can't go back to being simple ostriches concerned with our own affairs.

But how do we act globally without turning the third world into our sweatshop, human rights abusers into our trading partners, and arab lands into our personal oil supply at all costs?

When we can't get our own morality down, I don't see us with special rights to dictate to others. This is a side issue to defending ourselves, but one to keep in mind.