They give religion a bad name.

http://www.falwell.com/

while I understand your confusion and anger in this matter and in what was said by Falwell and Robertson, I'd like to make you aware of the fact that the statements were made on a Christian station and to a very different audience than to the whole nation. Many of us who study prophesy, who are devoted to our Christian faith, whether right, left, middle, understand what Falwell was saying, although I believe he used some rather unfortunate language. I don't want to go into the particulars of biblical warnings from our Lord and so on, all I can say is that what I understood was that this could have been prevented by the intervention of God Himself but He let it happen. Falwell and Robertson simply made an assumption why God allowed this to happen, whether right or wrong, they have every right to say it on a program geared towards people who share their blieves.

All the groups mentioned above have for decades now attacked Christian communities all around this nation. They have distorted the true convictions and believes we have and share. They have belittled, lied and condemmend. Yet, I don't see anyone voicing their opinins then.

Finally, both Falwell and Robertson said so much more that day. They offered help, prayers and absolute sadness. Of course this is not shown, only the bits and pieces are shown that serves certain groups, but that is how it always has been and why should it change anytime soon.

Look, all I want to say here is that as a member of the Christian community , we are praying, we are helping, we are doing the best we can to help in this situation. In this time of need, we need to look past some dumb remarks, mistaken statements and unfortunate opinions and simply aid in healing the wounds our nation has suffered and bring the guilty ones to justice.

I care, maybe too much sometimes. I don't wish you ill will as I hope you do not wish me the same (?). I only posted it because I thought it was inapporpriate and it was not to make a political statement...

If you have seen my posts I care about our world and the people in it. I don't begrudge anybody to believe what they want as long as it doesn't HURT others. If we would listen to Jesus' teachings to LOVE THY NEIGHBOR than this would be such a better world, but unfortunately as time goes by we knock each other down for religious/political/racist/bigoted/selfish beliefs (not all mind you).

I practice my faith in my own personal way and, again, wish no ill will on true believers (even if some believe I am a liberal/conservative/heretic/hellbound/whatever). I wish all the best in these troubled times.

"We abhor terrorism — unless we're the ones doing the terrorizing....

We have orphaned so many children, tens of thousands around the world, with our taxpayer-funded terrorism (in Chile, in Vietnam, in Gaza, in Salvador) that I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised when those orphans grow up and are a little whacked in the head from the horror we have helped cause. . . .
In just 8 months, Bush gets the whole world back to hating us again. He withdraws from the Kyoto agreement, walks us out of the Durban conference on racism, insists on restarting the arms race — you name it, and Baby Bush has blown it all. . . ."

Then I'd like to know what you call these leaders who single out American citizens who are homosexuals, abortion doctors, feminists (more accurately, independent women who for too long have been oppressed by both male dominated politics and male-dominated religion), who have other relgious beliefs (pagans), as well as the ACLU in their intolerance of anything that their beliefs may disagree with.

According to the New Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary of the English Language, bigot is defined as: a person who is extrememly intolerant of another's creed, opinion or belief. I don't see how my comment can be construed as bigoted, since all that I've stated is my opinion on their organizations and my personal non-acceptance of their version of god. I never stated that they are not entitled to their opinions or beliefs, nor their right to freely speak them.

you stated some facts that were weeded out from a very different context and discussion. Did you see the show? I did, and Falwell or Robertson did not come across the way the article or you portrait them. This may not be entirely your fault, since the majority of the liberal media enjoys portraiting Christians as bigots and unintelligent idiots. So be it.

Jesus taught a lot of things, one of those were pretty much in line of what Falwell and Robertson were trying to teach on that segment of the show.

While I don't always agree with these two individuals, they did not come accross on that show the way you paint them, and I half believe you know that.

This is all I shall say about this. I don't want to spoil the memories of all the people who died on Tuesday by this finger pointing and bashing, no matter what side it is coming from. Perhaps instead of always pointing the finger, we should all simply sit down, liberals, conservatives, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Bhuddhist, Hindus, Satanists, Feminists, Homosexuals, Transexuals, and whatever other groups exist and simply do one thing and one thing only. Talk.

Peace

We have imagined ourselves invulnerable and have been consumed by the pursuit of financial gain. The focus of many in America has been on the pursuit of health, wealth, material pleasures and sexuality. Sadly, those in the churches have been as self-indulgent as those in the world.

We have allowed rampant pornography on the Internet, and rampant secularism and the occult, etc. to be broadcast on television. We have permitted somewhere in the neighborhood of 35-40 million unborn babies to be slaughtered by our society.

We have a court that has essentially stuck its finger in God's eye and said, "We are going to legislate You out of the schools and take Your commandments from the courthouses in various states. We are not going to let little children read the commandments of God. We are not going to allow the Bible or prayer in our schools."

We have insulted God at the highest level of our government. Then, we say, "Why does this happen?" It is happening because God Almighty is lifting His protection from us.
Once that protection is gone, we are vulnerable because we are a free society.

http://www.pfaw.org/news/press//2001-09-13.320.phtml

...and have also viewed the 700 Club show from the 13th (it occurs around the 47 minute mark - online at www.cbn.com ) and I still do not see it being out of context. You be the judge.

quote:

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Originally posted by majestyx:
Well, I have found the transcript (which is accurate to the word) of the portion of the show in question:

http://www.pfaw.org/news/press//2001-09-13.320.phtml

...and have also viewed the 700 Club show from the 13th (it occurs around the 47 minute mark - online at www.cbn.com ) and I still do not see it being out of context. You be the judge.

[Message edited by majestyx on 09-14-2001]

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Sir, on Tuesday this country was severly bruised by the kind of people who are showing the same kind of destain and misunderstanding to this nation as you are to these two individuals. You are taken one statement and painting these two in a way that is totally unfair.

How about statements that others have said about Christians, like Mr.Turner, certain leaders from different organizations?

Oh well. Just tell me one thing. With this tragedy playing out, what are u trying to accomplish with this fingerpointing?

quote:

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Originally posted by majestyx:
You be the judge.

---

Before you go trying to prove how wrong they were, understand that I do not agree with them, their conservative views or how they articulate themselves. I wasn't defending them, not once. I think your blanket statement regarding their words and organized religion was equally as ignorant, as if ALL organized religion should be judged based on the words of two very conservative men. The two are not synonymous.

The following are links to 2 articles published in the UK paper THE GUARDIAN

I expect to get a lot of angry replies and outright nastiness over posting this - I don't really care. If it makes you feel better, helps you to deal with the situation, flame away.

The purpose is to get you to THINK, and THINK HARD about our future. And if you have an issue, do some checking on your own.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,551086,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,550939,00.html

And I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me
And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today
Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God bless the USA

From the lakes of Minnesota
To the hills of Tennessee
Across the plains of Texas
From sea to shining sea
From Detroit down to Houston
And New York to LA
Well there's pride in every American heart
And its time we stand and say

That I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me
And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today
Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God bless the USA

And I'm proud to be an American
Where at least I know I'm free
And I won't forget the men who died
Who gave that right to me
And I gladly stand up next to you and defend her still today
Cause there ain't no doubt I love this land
God bless the USA

Scott

and now everyone seems to be condemning Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

fine; such is your prerogative.

Anyone gonna prove to me that they're actually wrong?

and I don't mean ideologically.

Compare the values of those who lived in the 40s to today. Day and night.

This is a time to be perfectly blunt and people are goping to hear things that conflict mightily with their belief system.
Sorry.

So you Wanna Talk About Abortion...

Championed by that bastion of enlightenment, Margaret Sanger, who is on numerous records as supporting the eradication of all black people.
So she started her family planning organization, Planned Parenthood in an effort to breed the blacks out of existence.
Now it's a pretty big organization that deals in abortion "rights," because
Planned Parenthood hides their founders' background and doesn't let any word of it get about. It's intentions are truly evil.

Last statistics I read reported that blacks were involved in 37% of all abortions nationwide, even though they make up about 12% of the total US population.

disgusting.

but hey, it's your choice right?

and I don't dare propose that the US wouldn't be having so many financial difficulties if those people had been allowed to live and eventually pay into the Social Security system...

Sometimes our icons go too far. It is okay to address their errors,
instead of defending them.

M.Moore’s extreme leftist statements were abhorrent and removed
the blame for these recent attacks from the actual perpetrators.
Equally reprehensible are the Falwell/Robertson remarks that somehow
negate a benevolent, loving God and place the blame for terrorist
attacks on tolerance for choice, gays and feminists. Personally, I think
the extreme fanatics that crashed the planes are responsible for
the loss of lives as well as those groups that backed them and those
countries that knowingly harbor such criminals.

How civilized a society has become is measured by how equally it
treats its individual members. The extreme fanatics who attacked us veil
their women (you know, those of us who make up more that 50% of
the population) from head to toe and often practice sexual organ
mutilation on adolescent females to keep them from straying. These
fanatics support the kamikaze killings of thousands in the name
of God. This is civilized? This is fanaticism. This is
extremism. Perhaps we would all be better off if we would sand
off, smooth, and round the sharp edges of our own extremist beliefs.

I appreciated the decency of Billy Graham. When asked why a loving
God would allow such a thing to happen, he didn’t blame gays,
feminists, Bush, or American policies. He said he didn’t know and
couldn’t, being only human, totally fathom the mystery of God’s ways.

Lemons, yes, air strikes are a given. In fact I believe there might even be an invation which would save more innocent lives than just bombing the hell out of the country. I don't think we have to worry about the wrong country being held accountable, it seems our government is being very patient in order to insure that the right people are being retaliated against. In the end, let's just not loose sight of the fact that we are the ones who were attacked. We are the ones who lost lives.

Michael Moore though, is proving how his reprehensible behavior knows no bounds, as he now blasts the NYSE for reopening.

(QUOTE)

"the captains of Capitalism are declaring that the stock exchange will re-open on Monday, even if they don't have running water and phones, just to show its enemies that NOTHING can stop the forward accumulation of wealth.

"The vast majority of the dead are those who labored to bring them that wealth, and it dishonors them and their families to so callously crank up the greed machine within days of this tragedy. Their bodies--thousands of them--are still buried under the rubble down the street, but, hey, why wait to give them a proper burial--let's get busy making some money! I can only hope that the stench from the rotting corpses of their former employees will haunt them for the rest of the day and remain in their consciences for the days to come . . ."

(END QUOTE)

This sicko who has been adored and fawned over by the left ought to be made a pariah for life with these disgusting remarks, which only go on top of his previous lament that more of the victims weren't Republicans. Like so many Hollywood Leftists, Moore likes to bash the capitalist system, yet he obviously has no problem making money for his worthless self.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pandoras 2nd Box:
No human being has the right to forgive what happened on Tuesday (I don't care whether God may forgive them - that's his business).

---

I don't think you have the right to tell anyone who and what they can or cannot forgive. Besides, forgiveness does not mean that you forgoe justice. If you don't want to forgive that is your business sir, but telling anyone else they don't have the right to....who died and made you God?

Scott