Silva Screen: JURASSIC PARK - THE CLASSIC JOHN WILLIAMS (William Motzing conducting The City of Prague Philharmonic)

Edel Company: GIANTS OF CINEMA - JOHN WILLIAMS (it is really the very same recording as the above-mentioned)

Silva Screen: SCHINDLER'S LIST - THE CLASSIC FILM MUSIC OF JOHN WILLIAMS (Paul Bateman conducting The City of Prague Philharmonic)

...Is the problem in my ears, or does anyone else has the same kind of feelings towards these specific compilations ? I feel the low class of these compilations really odd, because the specific orchestra has recorded some very good performances, even Williams.
...There is just something WRONG on the performances of the above-mentioned compilations - I can't put my finger to it, but they really sound embarrassing.

The same thing, some kind of performance problems, can also be found on Royal Scottish National Orchestra's some recordings on Varese Sarabande compilations - in my opinion the Main Title of AMAZING STORIES is a the MOST troubled performance by the otherwise-talented orchestra...

I have the RSNO take of AMAZING STORIES, on Varese's "Great Composers: John Williams" compilation CD. I though it was a bravura performance. And that CD as a whole, to me, is just excellent. There are various orchestras on it.

I have stopped buying Silva rerecordings because I couldn't take it anymore, the performace was ruining the listening experience.
Often, the conductors weren't much better.
And the way the orchestra is recorded, makes it sound even worse than it is.
First because in such "great sound" every flaw is even more obvious, and second because something in those recordings sounds pretty bad. I have the impression the studio is extremely small with bad acoustics. So whatever Timperley does with the microphones, it still sounds like a small room with no acoustics.

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Originally posted by wistiti:
I blame the orchestra. The conductors. The studio.

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I used to have no problems at all with their Goldsmith compilation, after I got used to it - the interpretations are sometimes strikingly different from the OSTs, but mostly not bad at all. I really like the interpretation of First Knight, for example.

I agree about the Plague city orchestra--bad.

1. not enough rehearsal before recording
2. some instruments not tuned or not in tune with rest of orchestra
3. some of the first chair players aren't very good
4. bad tempo/timing on some
5. placement of mikes and recording equipment
6. conductors
7. orchestra members not following the conductor
8. improper volumes on various instruments, sections, so forth

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by wistiti:
[b]I blame the orchestra. The conductors. The studio.<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really like the interpretation of First Knight, for example.

[/B]

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Originally posted by Lou Goldberg:
I would have to think about what the absolute worst re-recorded film score is--and it would take a while too because, unfortunately, there are so many of them.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
The City of Prague Philharmonic may be poor at times. But the Philharmonic Rock Orchestra is BAD.

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That's because you've probably never heard the Montreal Symphony play Williams...

Some of their renditions of the Rambo music on their Stallone compilation is pretty ropey as well. But the Valley Of Gwangi Moross CD is terrific.

The music is 'performed' by the Orlando Pops Orchestra. And boy, the Hungarians put these guys to shame.

If the performance wasn't bad enough, the mixing is all wrong, too. The harp and timpani are way too loud. The tuba is miked incorrectly and some distortions arise when the guy gives it a good toot.

James Bernard's new score for NOSFERATU (1922)
Carl Davis' new score for THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA (1925)
A HISTORY OF HITCHCOCK volumes 1 & 2

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Originally posted by wistiti:
That's because you've probably never heard the Montreal Symphony play Williams...

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Can't talk about the Montreal Symphony. But the Orchestre symphonique de Montréal did a damn fine recording of The Planets.

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Originally posted by Ken S:
Marian, the thumb up is for you, because I agree with you on the NAXOS Williams compilation - except on couple of tracks: In my opinion the Philharmonic Rock's performance of the "Mission Theme" (from Amazing Stories and NBC News) is pure magic, even better, than Williams' own recording of it with the Boston Pops Orchestra. Also the "Love Theme" "Theme from Accidental Tourist" is quite good performance, as is the JAWS suite.

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I still don't have Williams' own recordings of Accidental Tourist and The Mission, so I can't compare them. I find Jaws really poor though.

But the true "highlight" on the album, beside the E.T. suite, is the March of the Ewoks. Didn't know that there are 200 year old Ewoks, but they sure sound like that.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:

Can't talk about the Montreal Symphony. But the Orchestre symphonique de Montréal did a damn fine recording of The Planets.

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Er... that's the same orchestra.
Montreal Symphony Orchestra = Orchestre Symphonique de Montreal

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Originally posted by JJH:
Montreal Symphony Orchestra = Orchestre Symphonique de Montreal

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Ok; I figured the names have the same meaning, but sometimtes they're still different orchestras.

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Originally posted by JJH:
not a re-recording, but the Prague group plays very well on Kilar's gothic Ninth Gate score.

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Originally posted by Lou Goldberg:
and a lack of keeping the actual score performance on the original film as something to measure the performances against.

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That's not necessarily a bad thing, at least when it comes to interpretations. If a good CD for the original recording is available, a 1:1 re-recording is just plain uninteresting. A different approach can be highly enjoyable, though.

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Originally posted by Marian Schedenig:
If a good CD for the original recording is available, a 1:1 re-recording is just plain uninteresting. A different approach can be highly enjoyable, though.

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I often read posts like this that have the same comments. I have a lot of the Silva discs. I find that they make great listening in the car because the sound cuts through much better than a lot of score recordings. The problem is made more difficult by the relative lack of a second recording to compare it too.

John Morgan posts here once in a while. I remember him commenting somewhere about how hard it is to believe the end result that he and Stromberg get when they finish their recordings. Like many of Marco Polo's recordings, they are no doubt pieced together in the editing room and the orchestra would never sound like that if we were to hear it in person.

Such is the case with Silva's "house" orchestra. When they are dead on, like in their Barry recordings, the results are amazing, when they are off, well they are off. 20, or 30 years ago it would have been ok, and often was.

As to the Varese re-recordings, I can't imagine they are flying off the shelves, especially since there has been really nothing for months announced in the pipeline or elsewhere. Having recently watched the DVD of "Marnie" I was amused to hear that there were some poor intonation and what sounds like a mistake in the hunting horns during "The Hunt".

Listen to "How Green Was My Valley" and you hear the violins trying hard not to misread the upward interval that is such a poignant part of the melody.

In my lifetime I have come across truly ghastly, horrid re-recordings of film scores. Trash that hurt my ears. The last ten years have seen a phenomenally successful resurgance of quality film score recordings by such labels as Varese Sarabande, Marco Polo, Intrada, Silva Screen... I am very thankful for that. Keep 'em coming.

NP: Robert Simpson Symphony No. 5
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra/Handley (Hyperion)

Of course, there are good and bad rerecording just as there are good and bad performances in the original film performance.

Back in the fifties and sixties recording classical music with the major orchestras was a major undertaking. For instance, the great Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony would work on a piece for weeks for a live performance and then after that performance, would record it. He prided himself in getting complete movements recorded that needed no editing for the final recorded master. Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury today as costs have risen and profits have dropped proportionately.

As sakman correctly states, editing is an important device in providing the best possible performance. In a live concert if a mistake is made, you quickly forget as you move to another passage. It's like an actor muffing a line in a play, but in film or recording, they are meant to be played over and over again, and with the same exact performance, so we try to make it as error free as humanly possible.

Actually, for our Marco Polo releases, we try to do complete takes of a long cue and only edit in replacement bars where we feel the flow and integrity of line is maintained. I don't like recording things a bar at a time because you can hear the loss of overall musical line. It's almost like taking, say the voice of Bogart, and putting a million of his separate words in a fish bowl and taking them out to make new sentences. The inflection and overall line is lost. This is the same for music performances...every performance, even ones down right after one another, have their own "tempos and nuances" and if one does too much editing, it just doesn't feel right to me.

There is a magic in live performance that can't be matched in recordings. I don't know if the orchestra is on their toes more, or the audience creates and certain mood, but I remember when we recorded THE ADVENTURES OF MARK TWAIN for BMG in Germany, Bill was able to conduct about 25 minutes of the music in a live concert and it was magical. The orchestra played wonderfully and there was electricity in the air. We never got a tape of it and I am sure there were errors, but the excitement and tension of the live performance created such a wonderful atmosphere it was astonishing.

Terrific job on KING KONG (Steiner), HOUSE OF FRANKENSTEIN (Salter & Dessau) and HUNCHBACK OF NOTRE DAME (Newman) - the only ones I have from Marco Polo label.

I am going to hope I didn't overstep. Having watched someone edit music performances it is very amazing what can be done. I have felt less of this in your recordings for Marco Polo, especially the newer ones which I think is a mark of the musicianship and love of what is being done there. Like with classical music it's those rough edits that can distiunguish one performance from another.

I think I look on the MP recordings as great testaments of recorded music that brings these scores to a new level. Most of the time I look on the Silva discs as a semi-live performance. Another way to say it is that the latter is like candy whereas the former is like a fine wine that bears new discoveries with each listen.