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      Re-recording Disasters & Prague Philharmonic (Page 2)

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    Topic:   Re-recording Disasters & Prague Philharmonic

     JEC
     Oscar® Winner
     

    quote:
    Originally posted by John Morgan:
    ...when we recorded THE ADVENTURES OF MARK TWAIN for BMG in Germany...

    Speaking of this, why did the CD vanish off the face of the earth so fast?

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    posted 09-18-2001 02:32 PM PT (US)     

     dgoldwas
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    In case anyone is interested, they now have an official website:
    http://www.praguephilharmonic.org/

    Dan

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    posted 09-25-2001 07:00 AM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
     Oscar® Winner
     

    "Only $12.50 per musician per hour!"

    Some nice pictures and videos on that site. The webmaster needs to learn how to spell "broadband," however.

    Thanks Dan.

    [Message edited by jonathan_little on 09-25-2001]

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    posted 09-25-2001 09:56 AM PT (US)     

     John Morgan
     Oscar® Winner
     

    We did two recordings for BMG. They did a small series of classic film music rerecordings to celebrate 100 years of Film Music, but because of corporate fighting between Germany and America divisions, they weren't even released in America, other than expensive imports. They were much too expensive and it was frustrating they didn't have a wider release. Such is the music world of today.

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    posted 09-25-2001 02:46 PM PT (US)     

     wistiti
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    Ah yes... those good ole RCA Centennial discs...

    Disappeared off the racks faster than Milan releases...

    Including that godforsaken Nosferatu disc...

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    posted 09-25-2001 04:36 PM PT (US)     

     Ken S
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    There are times I'm glad to live in Finland - when the BMG recording was released, I picked the legendary NOSFERATU from a full shelf of them

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    posted 09-26-2001 01:21 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    We've discussed this topic on a number of earlier posts and in them I've butted heads with both Nic Zwar and Marian S (otherwise fine people) over their positions.

    When I watch a film and hear a musical score along with it, that performance, the one I hear in the film, usually by a top-notch Hollywood orchestra conducted by the composer him/herself is etched into my mind.

    I'm willing to hear re-recordings, even new arrangements, provided they work musically, but in the majority of cases, the performances and arrangements are often weak and lacking in spirit and leave me disappointed. They neither remind me of the music as I've heard it nor work on their own as something to listen to.

    I have problems too with some digital recording levels. The quiet passages are practically inaudible and if you turn up the volume to hear them the louder passages when they arrive suddenly destroy your machinery and hearing ability.

    I can relate to something John Morgan once said about trying to capture the composer's original intention in the score pages rather than the version that is in the film after music editing and other tweaking. If this means adding passages of score that were cut in the film and the like, then I'm for it even if it deviates from the music as I've encountered it.

    Still, treating film music as if it were regular concert music for performance is a mistake. Sure you can put together a concert of film music for the public that works, but to mic film music as if it were Brahms or Bach and record the thing as if the listener were in a seat in the audience is detrimental to the original sound which was designed to come full force out of theater speakers.

    Given this situation, I feel that trying to map a re-recording's performance as closely as possible to the one in the film is the one which will get the most out of the orchestra (even if musicians hate to copy performances by others they'll have no room to get sloppy if they have a standard to match) and the best results for the score. This means a by heart familarity with the music as it is in the film, close arrangements, timings, spirit, and extra rehearsals to get it right, maybe even conducting to film clips as in the intial recording sessions. The result should be able to replace the original performance in a re-mix or come pretty damn close.

    New versions that some people here seem to love just annoy me for the most part and make me wonder what their advocates are using for ears these days. There are good re-records and even the rare item that improves on the film version, but sticking to the tried and true strikes me as the most worthwhile approach for producing an enjoyable experience that accords with both memory and aesthetics.

    As for the Prague Orch., it's obvious that they have done a good job on Kilar's scores and other soundtracks which leads me to believe it's not the orchestra but the team at Silva that is royally botching the recordings they do. I've screamed about Silva so much that Ford e-mailed me personally to read me the riot act, but even that can't alter reality (nor get my wasted money back).


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    posted 09-26-2001 09:26 PM PT (US)     

     Ken S
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    Lou, my thoughts exactly.

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    posted 09-27-2001 11:08 AM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Ford Thaxton e-mailed me to say that the COPP actually uses weaker players on its film sessions and that Silva replaces those guys with better players at their sessions. I have to admit from listening to the latest Silva CDs like The History of Horror and The Cardinal that things are improving over there, but that doesn't help the folks who pick up their earlier CDs. Has anyone heard their Alfred Newman CD by the way?

    [Message edited by Lou Goldberg on 09-28-2001]

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    posted 09-27-2001 09:13 PM PT (US)     

     sakman
     Oscar® Winner
     

    The Newman set is pretty good, especially the rarer stuff.

    Lou, I understand your point. It is the same one that sparked the "original/authentic instrument" movement especially in regards to Baroque music, and, later on, 18th and 19th century music. Unfortunately, the result when such an approach is taken is often stilted, dry, monotonous music making. Those were the kinds of charges laid at the feet of the first recordings of Bach's, and even Beethoven's music. Granted things have gotten somewhat better, but ultimately it is a matter of personal preference. It got to the point where hearing a performance of a Bach "Brandenburg Concerto" in concert was anathema at an orchestra concert.

    Your argument could also lead to support the notion that film music cannot stand alone and would smugly satisfy a number of "art music" snobs. I know that's not your intent, nor do I think you believe that based on your posts elsewhere here.

    The bottom line question is really: Are you willing to let film music be "interpreted" or not? If not, you won't buy anything Silva, Marco Polo, or Varese puts out. And you will be the poorer for it, musically speaking. And you will need to return your Herrmann and Gerhardt recordings too.

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    posted 09-28-2001 08:47 AM PT (US)     

     Ken S
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    Interpreted YES
    but badly performed and recorded NO !!!


    -the paying customer KEN-

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    posted 09-28-2001 03:15 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    Sakman--You are reading me too narrowly but that's my fault. Ken is more to the point, interpreted perhaps but badly performed no. But it does go beyond this. I've heard versions that get the basic melody but don't match the counterpoint or orchestration or those that even change the original notes to go for a routine coda or what-have-you.

    The most important thing is that the re-record work on its own as good music to listen to and most just don't when the scores themselves are good to begin with--there the problem lies somewhere with the orchestra, conducting, arrangement, etc.

    If I propose a certain standard to follow, it's only that I think the best result can come from it. I'm sure there could be an example where someone did follow my plan and loses the spirit they could have had just winging it.

    For the majority of re-records, however, the quality needs upgrading not the other way around. I don't care by what means it's achieved. Ultimately, I just want recordings of things I don't have to turn off and throw away.

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    posted 09-29-2001 09:24 PM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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     FishChip
     

    jonathan_little, I have to agree with you here on "The Best of John Williams" album. Just came across it. The problem here is the friggin' mic placement and final mix. It sounds like they had four microphones.... one for the string section (closest to the violin), one for the brass section (closest to the tuba), one for the chime and one for the harp! My goodness what a travesty. Pains the ears. I'd almost say the performances are pretty good, but the damn cardboard box I feel like I have over my head while listening to this just doesn't allow me to say anything so positive. And MAN, what's up with the cover art? I've seen better UFOs on a Saturday Night Live skit....

    Watch out for re-recordings mixed by "John St. John"!!

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    posted 01-22-2002 09:46 PM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
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    LOL

    Peter, I'm so sorry you had to stumble across that disc... and yes, the cover art is horrible, too.

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    posted 01-23-2002 07:14 AM PT (US)     
     

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