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      LOTR PAN & SCAN! Petition.

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    Topic:   LOTR PAN & SCAN! Petition.

     Marian Schedenig
     Click Here to Email Marian Schedenig
     Oscar® Winner
     

    Actually, this belongs in the "Just Movies" forum, but nobody reads that one, so please forgive me for posting it here.

    On September 11, Warner will release the animated Bakshi version of The Lord of the Rings on DVD...in disgusting PAN&SCAN!

    I was really looking forward to this DVD, but unless Warner can be convinced to correct this, I certainly won't buy it. I've already signed the petition, and I urge everyone who cares for movies to do so as well, or what's next: Potter Pan & Scan? Jackson's LOTR Pan & Scan? Star Wars Pan & Scan? (I have a Pan & Scan VCD of Star Wars which I've never watched, simply because the image is unbearable).

    • Article at TheOneRing.net
    • Petition

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    posted 08-23-2001 06:05 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    While I was writing the above post, 17 more people signed! If this continues at the same rate, perhaps there's still hope!

    NP: Mike Oldfield compilation by Timmer

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    posted 08-23-2001 06:08 AM PT (US)     

     dgoldwas
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    Actually, what's next is the HARRY POTTER AND THE SORCERER'S STONE, pan and scan edition.

    Seems that Warner Home Video has a nice little policy for "Pan and Scan" for all Family titles.

    The ONLY reason GOONIES was widescreen (thank GOD) was because Richard Donner stepped in and insisted upon it.

    WHV seems to be full of idiots.

    Dan

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    posted 08-23-2001 07:00 AM PT (US)     

     Ed
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I agree that pan & scan in the DVD format with all those extra lines of resolution makes no sense, and nothing could be easier than simply offering both versions on one disc to let the consumer make the choice.

    I'd like to offer a (possible) ray of hope for the animated LOTR, though. If my fading memory serves, LOTR may have been filmed "open matte", as animated Disney films were at that time, and so a "full frame" version may actually contain MORE information at the top and bottom of the image (think Stanley Kubrick). The animation normally not seen in theaters would therefore be perfectly acceptable and the integrity of the original animators' work might actually be preserved, not diminished. Anyone who has seen Criterion's unmatted laserdisc of Harryhausen's JASON & THE ARGONAUTS knows how much infomation was lost when Columbia letterboxed the film for DVD...and, unfortunately, the "full frame" side is zoomed-in quite unnecessarily.

    I should point out that ever since Beauty & The Beast in 1991, computers have been used to combine and render nearly all animated films, and as a cost- and time-saving measure matted areas were left black in each frame (at least out to 1.66), but LOTR predates B&B by nearly a decade.

    Does anyone know for sure?

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    posted 08-23-2001 10:17 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    Open Matte is still annoying, but not nearly as bad as Pan & Scan.

    Still, reportedly, LOTR is going to be released in Pan & Scan, and Pan & Scan is not Open Matte. Also, it's not a Disney film (Tolkien loathed Disney).

    A question though: Animated widescreen Disney films were "shot" in 4:3? They actually painted more than they intended to show? I find that hard to believe?

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    posted 08-23-2001 02:20 PM PT (US)     

     Mark Olivarez
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    There are many things about letterboxing that confuses me. Dan posted an intersting link that help explain some questions. But there are still some issues that I don't quite get.

    An example would be ID4 and Godzilla. Both appear to be overmatted on the top and bottom. Austin Powers 2 looks like it should have been boxed at 1.85:1 in stead of 2.35:1. My friend and I e-mailed Dean Devlin several years ago asking why on the video you can see more of the bottom but the widescreen version cuts some of the picture out. He gave an explanation we didn't understand.

    I've always wondered why the Jason and the Argonaughts DVD was letterboxed. I have the Criterion Laser Disc and I thought it was presented correct. That probably means the other Harryhausen DVDs are matted incorrectly. The have the 7th Voyage of Sinbad also listed at 1.85:1.

    [Message edited by Mark Olivarez on 08-23-2001]

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    posted 08-23-2001 03:13 PM PT (US)     

     André Lux
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    quote:
    Originally posted by dgoldwas:

    WHV seems to be full of idiots.

    Dan


    Indeed!

    I just signed the petition.


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    posted 08-23-2001 11:57 PM PT (US)     

     Crono/Kyp
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    If "Potter" is Pan and Scan I'll be pissed, however, I hope that Chris and crew will pull for the film as well as Rowling.

    --Brian
    Gryffindor Seeker


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    posted 08-24-2001 12:04 AM PT (US)     

     SEBULBA
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    In Warner's infinite widsom, they've decided that "family films" will ALL be released in pan & scan because that's what families want. EXCUSE ME!!! I have kids, and I only want widescreen. Not only LOTR, but Willy Wonka, and the upcoming Cats & Dogs. Give me a break. We don't need to only petition for these particular titles, we should start a petition for all "family films" in general. There's no reason they can't continue their pan & scan and widescreen on opposite sides.

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    posted 08-24-2001 06:43 AM PT (US)     

     Ed
     Oscar® Winner
     

    With regard to Marian's comment on Disney, nearly all Disney animated features were "filmed" in 4:3...or very very close to it...before the '80s. At first this was because ALL films were shown that way, but later it allowed Disney flexibility in showing its films (or clips from them) on TV. I've seen unmatted animation in my work from several studios and there is usually complete animation out to 1:66, which is just below the top, and just above the bottom of a standard NTSC frame...and that's for TODAY'S computer-assisted animation. I think its safe to say that anything done before 1980 would use the full frame...unless we're talking about a anamorphic cartoon.

    I should point out that I have no idea what LOTR looks like theatrically. I've only seen the same videotape that's been around for years. However the WB disc looks, it had better be FAR superior to that old transfer. I guess we'll know soon.

    Also, as far as this crap about family audiences wanting full frame transfers...
    I've yet to hear of any child unwilling to watch a favorite video because it's been properly formatted. Think about it: "Mommie...(sniff)...I'd LIKE to watch "The Little Mermaid" but...(sob)...I CAN'T 'cause of those black things on the screen...(WAAAHH!!!)"

    Give me a break.

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    posted 08-24-2001 11:42 AM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    Thanks for clearing this up.

    And yeah, Warner has yet to show me the family that refuses to buy widescreen DVDs (as opposed to a lot of people who refuse to buy Pan&Scan DVDs, including me). And also, they have no idea what a family film is - but it's nothing new that ANY cartoon is considered a family film, probably even if it's an ultra-gory hardcore porn film.

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    posted 08-24-2001 11:48 AM PT (US)     

     Ed
     Oscar® Winner
     

    Hey Marian (and others) lookie what DvdFile.com just announced today:

    Wonka goes widescreen (08.23.01 - 8:54apm)

    Here's the golden ticket? Warner has just announced a widescreen version of Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory, due 11/13. Check out the press release - now real, according to to Warner reps - for the details. Congrats to all those who voiced their opinions and started petitions... in this case, it worked. But hopefully, in the future, consumers won't have to start a petition to get every single Family Entertainment title in widescreen!

    And Warners admits it was due to popular demand! Read the press release:
    http://www.dvdfile.com/news/web_wire/press_release/titles/willywonka_widescreen_fake.html

    (They thought the release was fake until Warners confirmed it today.)

    Marian's petition may just do the trick!

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    posted 08-24-2001 12:41 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    Uhm, it's not my petition, it was started by TheOneRing.net. I just brought it to this board.

    I've been reading rumours about the widescreen Wonka for a couple of days. Considering the LOTR petition seems to be making about 1000 entries per day, it should reach the size of the Wonka petition in less than two weeks.

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    posted 08-24-2001 12:44 PM PT (US)     

     James
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    Just bringing this topic back to the top, as I think it's important.

    Film composers are also joining the fight, apparently. Check out signature #319:

    http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?lotrdvd&4101

    James

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    posted 08-28-2001 08:09 PM PT (US)     

     Marian Schedenig
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    SUCCESS!!

    According to TheOneRing.net, Warner has reacted on the petition and the DVD will be released in anamorphic widescreen!

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    posted 09-08-2001 07:57 AM PT (US)     

     André Lux
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    Yes!!

    I hope this teach a lesson to those guy at Warner at last!!

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    posted 09-08-2001 09:07 AM PT (US)     

     Dr. Zaius
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    pan and scan in the year 2001 it is crazy

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    posted 09-08-2001 10:49 PM PT (US)     

     Shaun Rutherford
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    Hey Marian,
    We got our copies of LOTR at work today and unless there is a mistake on the packaging, it IS widescreen! The others are P&S, but just wanted to confirm it from the "man on the street" angle.
    I somehow doubt that Warner reacted to the P&S uproar quickly enough to do a five-week turnaround on this disc (which DOES NOT include a P&S transfer at all), but hey--it's cool nonetheless.

    Shaun

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    posted 09-10-2001 07:56 PM PT (US)     
     

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