KS

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Originally posted by Kyriacos S:
Spielberg only makes films that will have a high box-office turnover

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Heh. RIGHT.

Films like THE SUGARLAND EXPRESS? 1941? EMPIRE OF THE SUN? THE COLOR PURPLE? ALWAYS? AMISTAD?

None of those had "high box office turnovers"...

Even A.I. didn't make nearly HALF of what they were expecting it to make....

Dan

I find that hard to believe....His films are so deep....

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Originally posted by Kyriacos S:
I don't think you got the point of that specific opinion Dan....

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No, I got it. I can't imagine that Spielberg made ALWAYS or THE COLOR PURPLE because they would have a "high box office turnover"....

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My friend dislikes Spielberg-she believes he is being very commercial...she also believes that his war films are full of propaganda....

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Propoganda? Well, I suppose - it makes the Nazi's and the Japanese out to be the "bad guys" of World War II. But.... weren't they? Hmmmm.....

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I find that hard to believe....His films are so deep....

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Well, on another level, just because a film is "deep" doesn't mean it ISN'T propoganda....

Dan

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Originally posted by dgoldwas:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>Originally posted by Kyriacos S:
[b]I don't think you got the point of that specific opinion Dan....<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I got it. I can't imagine that Spielberg made ALWAYS or THE COLOR PURPLE because they would have a "high box office turnover"....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>My friend dislikes Spielberg-she believes he is being very commercial...she also believes that his war films are full of propaganda....<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Propoganda? Well, I suppose - it makes the Nazi's and the Japanese out to be the "bad guys" of World War II. But.... weren't they? Hmmmm.....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>I find that hard to believe....His films are so deep....<HR size=1></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, on another level, just because a film is "deep" doesn't mean it ISN'T propoganda....

Dan

[/B]

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I certainly hope you are not mad at me Dan.....this isn't MY opinion after all....

KS

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Originally posted by Kyriacos S:
I certainly hope you are not mad at me Dan.....this isn't MY opinion after all...

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Not only am I NOT mad at you, I'm confused as to why you would think I was mad at ANYONE!

KS

Now he only does two kinds of movies:

1) I WANT THE OSCAR - movies about Jews in concetration camps, USA Patriotic War Propaganda, Cheesy Imature Sentimentalism Deep as a saucer, etc.

2) I WANT MONEY - Jurassic Park, etc.

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Originally posted by André Lux:

Now he only does two kinds of movies:

1) I WANT THE OSCAR - movies about Jews in concetration camps, USA Patriotic War Propaganda, Cheesy Imature Sentimentalism Deep as a saucer, etc.

Very sad.

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YES,Andre!
This is exactly what my friend meant when she was talking about propaganda.

KS

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Originally posted by mlw:
That's pure bullshit though... Spielberg just does what will present a challenge to him artistically. If it were just about oscars and b.o, it would be a collection of generalised mothballs about nothing, and a bunch of Bruckheimer type flics. Saving Private Ryan is about doubt and survival not propaganda, not patriotism. Jurassic Park was about commercial responsibility and Hammond's angst...technology will evolve despite everything in it's way. That isn't stupid. Those little pics that don't do so well, like Always, Amistad, A.I., you get the impression the fact they are done is of greater importance than the boxoffice racket. It's the attitude of an artist.

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Sorry Michael, can't agree with you.
The fact is Spielberg became the "king of Hollywood" because of all the (great) action/fantasy blockbuster he directed. But this also labeled him as the "Peter Pan" of movie making, something he started to combat by doing pretentious "adult" movies like COLOR PURPLE, EMPIRE OF THE SUN, etc all.
Not that those movies are bad - some of them are still great - but they were "adults" only in the subject, but never in the realization.

The only adult movie that Spielberg has made is indeed SCHINDLER'S LIST - except maybe for the forced and out of place coclusion when we are forced to hear Schindler pathetic "mea culpa".

SAVING PRIVATE RYAN's message is very clear: "War is bad but necessary, since make heroes out of our boys", etc all. And the german soldiers are again shown as cartoonesque characters, like on the Indiana Jones movies.

AMISTAD was a "left-wing" (for USA standars, at least) pro-negros movie he made probably to piss off the racist Republicans - which is a good thing to start. Too bad the movie losts all its weight with all that beatification of ex-president Adams.

As for JURASSIC PARK being about commercial responsibility and Hammond's angst... technology will evolve despite everything in it's way... Well, this is in THE BOOK, never in the movie, which aproaches this subject in a very weak and laughable way.

The JP novel was about as persuasive as a sheaf of memos. The film is quite beautiful in it's formal delineation of almost fugal lighting ideas, as fascinating a thesis on the nature of perception as, say, Bob Peak's commercial paintings. Perception, commerce, fun thrill ride with a conscience, not bad at all.

it is indeed a leftist film, intended to make me feel bad for being a white guy.

a white guy who never owned slaves, nor even had any relatives on US soil until the 1880s, when they emigrated from Russia.

good score though...

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Originally posted by mlw:
Saving Private Ryan is one of the best films ever made. None of what you described is present anywhere in the film. There's nothing heroic about old men who have never believed their survival was worth the experience of combat or worth other men's deaths. That's in the movie, spelled out so you won't miss it. Not since the days of Cliff Odets has a theatrical artist been so willing to risk his own credentials to be CLEAR.

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Best movie ever made? Far from it. Maybe the first ten minutes at the beach. The rest is not only boring but also quite lame. And you are right about Spielber "spelling things over the audience's face". He is getting quite good on that. A movie that portrait the german army as simple "vilains" (something that can work on a fantasy movie as Indiana Jones, but never in a pretentious 'adult' movie) can't be taken seriously, unless you are quite naive and misinformed...

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The JP novel was about as persuasive as a sheaf of memos. The film is quite beautiful in it's formal delineation of almost fugal lighting ideas, as fascinating a thesis on the nature of perception as, say, Bob Peak's commercial paintings. Perception, commerce, fun thrill ride with a conscience, not bad at all.

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Wrong again. The JP novel rises some quite deep issues about men messing up with technology to creat life. This is explored trhowgh the novel very efficiently, till the shocking conclusion.
The movie was made to sell toys and to show the world the new Digital EFX technics. Plain and dull all the way, whith only little hints from the what the book was and obviously shot by the Second Unit crew, since Spielberg was concentrated on the making of SCHINDLER'S LIST at the same time.

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Amistad and Adams--hmm, not that Hopkins played him as a decrepit, self-immolated husk doubting his own abilities or anything...

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yeah, baby, just go to http://bless_the_bleeding_hearts_for_nazis.net

One would be sure to find many like-minded sympathizers. They don't like Spielberg either.

the worst Williams is still better than 97% of everything else that's out there.

I think Spielberg is sensitive to audiences and, like even Hitchcock, he considers the films that don't do box office as failures that somehow didn't touch the public irregardless of what critics or even he himself thinks of them.

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Originally posted by mlw:

One would be sure to find many like-minded sympathizers. They don't like Spielberg either.

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Oh... I see... you are one of those people who actually believe ALL germans were mean and nazis, just because they followed Hitler and his perverted propaganda.

It is the same to say tha all USA natives are fascist pigs because endorsed Reagan/Bush or that all Colombians are drug dealers or at least work for one...

Indeed naive is the correct word.

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Originally posted by mlw:
SPR annihilated the preconceptions of the audience.

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This is true for the first 15 minutes.
The rest of the film is just a bunch of recicled boring war clichés put togheter with Spielberg's usual naive approach and pretentious cinematography.

Name one truly selfless, non-propagandistic film NOT designed to make money, win awards or present a point of view.

I think the issue is whether or not one likes Spielberg's films.

Action fans certainly wish he'd do another "Raiders..." or "Jurassic Park" and those who loved "The Color Purple" and "Schindler's List" want him to continue in that vein, and those who love both genres plus "E.T." and "Close Encounters..." and "Jaws", sit back in wonder and amazement and thank the gods they live in the age of Spielberg.

Of course, those who hate all things jewish will snipe and carp and seemingly come off saying lame things like his war films are slanted in some way such as pro-Jews and anti-Nazi.

Equally true, there are those who simply don't feel Spielberg had enough story for a film like "Saving Private Ryan" -- certainly not enough for as long as it ways. I agree with Andre on this one....it went on way too long.

I personally didn't care whether Ryan got saved at all once he refused to go with the troop sent to save him.

And my butt was so tired from sitting that I felt little when Hanks' character was killed.

I could have edited out about 45 minutes and the film would have been none the worse for its message.

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Originally posted by Ron Pulliam:
Well...name a movie that ISN'T either propaganda, designed to make money or, in combination with both and other things, designed to win Oscars.

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Terry Gilliams' BRAZIL is one of them.

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Of course, those who hate all things jewish will snipe and carp and seemingly come off saying lame things like his war films are slanted in some way such as pro-Jews and anti-Nazi.

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The problem with this movie is not in the fact that it's pure pro-jewish/USA army, but most of all because presents a prejudicial and ill view of the german soldiers, all mean, traitors and cold blood killers, while the USA soldiers are all sensitive, well spirited and forgiven. Such "naiveness" could be funny if it wasn't so outrageous since is the same "philosophy" Washington uses to manipulate the public's minds whenever Ucle Sam's long arm wants to take something from another country - either by using the army of the IMF.

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I agree with Andre on this one....it went on way too long.

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That's ok, don't feel ashamed to admit.
I am usually right about things.

I think we're talking about "Saving Private Ryan" here, yes...and I think it's too easy to say that the U.S. soldiers in the cast represent the entire U.S. military...they're just a unit...and they aren't all goody goody guys, either.

As for the German soldiers being presented as evil, show me a well-balanced war film then. What war film achieves, for you, the balance you would prefer.

Why, war would not be viable if we had to think of the opponent as basically decent with a right to its own opinions !

As "Brazil," a beautiful, visually dazzling masterpiece IMO, it still had a point of view -- all about bureaucracy (a sort of 1984 Orwellian world run totally amok) draining humankind of its animus.

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Originally posted by Ron Pulliam:
As for the German soldiers being presented as evil, show me a well-balanced war film then. What war film achieves, for you, the balance you would prefer.

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THE THIN RED LINE, THE THREE KINGS, just to mention two recent which are much, much better and impartial than the pathetic SPR, to say the least.

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Why, war would not be viable if we had to think of the opponent as basically decent with a right to its own opinions !

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This may be true in our real and twisted world. But why make movies to justify all this stupidity? And, worst, disguise them as if they were "serious/adul/art" movies? Disgusting...

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As "Brazil," a beautiful, visually dazzling masterpiece IMO, it still had a point of view -- all about bureaucracy (a sort of 1984 Orwellian world run totally amok) draining humankind of its animus.

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True, but ISN'T either propaganda, designed to make money or, in combination with both and other things, designed to win Oscars.

But must be really hard to an arrongant lad like him to know that his vision about movies and life are just dead wrong.