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Jurassic Park III WITHOUT Williams
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Topic: Jurassic Park III WITHOUT Williams

Ken S

Oscar® Winner

I finally saw JURASSIC PARK III and, in fact, I was positively surprised because the movie was indeed better - more gribbing, more violent - than the disastrous kiddie-cutie LOST WORLD: JP II ( - although I don't have anything against kiddies and cuties generally speaking).Yet one thing really bugged me. In fact, the same thing bugged me already on LOST WORLD - the use of John Williams' original JP themes. Because the both themes were associated WITH THE "THEME PARK", I didn't see any reason for Williams incorporating them into LOST WORLD's score - well, except on the end credits for "commercial purpose".
In JP III the Williams-themes are again used just because of the "commercial purpose", not because of the content of the movie. Yes, I understand that this movie is a sequel and they want the familiar themes back - BUT in my opinion the movie would have worked musically much more better, if the Williams-themes were dropped off and replaced by Don Davis' originals - in JP III there is even lesser need for the "theme park" themes than in LOST WORLD. With his beautiful cues Don Davis shows that he could have composed his own imaginative main themes for Isla Sorna and its inhabitants.
Am I alone here, or is there others who feel this way?
PS. Although Davis' score is good, it could've been better if he had done as fierce, rhythmic writing as on "The Beast"

posted 08-10-2001 11:31 AM PT (US) 
dgoldwas

Oscar® Winner

I may be going out on a limb here, but I think they used the JURASSIC PARK themes in THE LOST WORLD because it was a JURASSIC PARK sequel.
Seriously, thematically speaking, the themes stood for a certain "wonder" and "majesty" of the dinosaurs, and so it made sense to incorporate them into the score. Trust me - I don't think Williams was doing that just because of "commercial purpose"!!
If that were the case, then why did he put that damn annoying STAR WARS theme in PHANTOM MENACE?? Or that annoying "Raiders March" in INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM? etc. etc.
As Don Davis said, it wouldn't be a Jurassic Park movie without the Jurassic Park theme. Kinda like how SUPERMAN II wouldn't have felt the same if it didn't have the SUPERMAN theme. (And how NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN does NOT feel like a Bond film because it doesn't have the Bond theme..... but that's just me.)
Call it "commercial purpose" if you want, but I think that to keep the thematic flow in all three JP movies, using the same themes interwoven throughout is a GOOD thing.
Dan
posted 08-10-2001 12:01 PM PT (US) 
John Zimmer

Oscar® Winner

Well one of the problems in seeing whether or not the original JP I themes should have been in the scores to The Lost World and JP III is identifying the themes correctly. If the brassy theme known to many as the "island theme" is in fact isla nublar's theme then it is diffucult to say whether that theme chould have been in the sequels because (Williams obviously thought that it was the isla Nublar theme and left it out of his score to The Lost World. However Davis left the theme into his score this was most likely because he wanted people to identify that he had not abandoned Williams score completly .The strings theme as heard in the brachiosaur sequence in JP I is what I call the "Dinosaur theme" this in my oppinion chould be in every film regardless of which island. But if this is not the Dinosaur theme and is in actuality the "Jurrasic Park theme" then this should be in the both sequels anyway becuase the full title to JP II is The Lost World: Jurrasic Park, and the third film is Jurrasic Park III. Anyway just a few thoughts anyone agree with me? Besides without those themes it just wouldn't be a Jurrasic Park film.
Np: The Mummy Returns (Alan Silvestri) *****/*****
Jz
posted 08-10-2001 12:38 PM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by John Zimmer:
If the brassy theme known to many as the "island theme" is in fact isla nublar's theme then it is diffucult to say whether that theme chould have been in the sequels because (Williams obviously thought that it was the isla Nublar theme and left it out of his score to The Lost World.The brassy theme does show up in Lost World.
Both themes seem to be related to the creation of the dinosaurs rather than a specific location. Nevertheless, I'm sure a Williams JP3 score wouldn't have relied on older themes nearly as heavily as Davis did. Williams used the original two main themes only briefly in Lost World, while Davis used them prominently in the underscore - which Williams hardly did even in the original score. Also, Williams even came up with a new dinosaur motif for Lost World instead of using the one from Jurassic Park (although both have 4 notes).
NP: Mike Oldfield compilation made by Timmer
posted 08-10-2001 01:03 PM PT (US) 
Ken S

Oscar® Winner

Dear Dan,although I mentioned LOST WORLD here, it must be said that Williams used his original themes very cautiously when compared how they were used on JP III.
I understand your comment - in sequels it is typical of using recognizeable main theme, although there are also exceptions. My topic was, however, the UNDERSCORE to JP III (I don't mean the End Credits)...
We are now talking about m o v i e m u s i c , music that is created to enhance certain characteristics of a single movie with its own sequences. The two John Williams main themes from original JP were created for the "park", the Isla Nublar - yes, for expressing "wonder" and "majesty" - and Williams used them only slightly in LOST WORLD. That's why it's somewhat distracting that both of the themes appear in such big "roles" in JP III although they don't have much of a purpose; they are not needed anywhere else, except on the End Credits.
INDIANA JONES movies and SUPERMAN movies are a different case, because the main themes are tied up with the main character. STAR WARS is an "institution" (although I've never liked Williams' main theme).
My purpose is not to ban the Williams-themes from (further) JP movies, but just to appreciate good film music and defend its ORIGINAL purpose for going "underneath" the subject and bringing out the best in musical terms. In my opinion, the opening sequence, the airplane flight and the riverbank sequences of JP III would've been more magical if Don Davis had composed his own music for them; what was magical in 1992, is not anymore within the awesome visuals of 2001.
posted 08-10-2001 01:09 PM PT (US) 
Ken S

Oscar® Winner

Thanks John & Marian !I still have to add another thing here -
Williams' "Theme from Jurassic Park" (the beautiful one) is an extremely "difficult" composition. It needs a very experienced and talented person to arrange or even perform it newly - even Williams had big trouble in performing it with Boston Pops orchestra for the compilation "Williams on Williams".
Compared to Davis' own beautiful cues for JP III, he is also a little bit lost with his arrangements on Williams - that's why it truly bothers me to think what kind of majestic new music Davis could have composed if he'd been given a chance for it.
posted 08-10-2001 01:26 PM PT (US) 
John Zimmer

Oscar® Winner

The brassy theme does show up in Lost World.
Hmm.. yes I just listened to Lost World and it does have a key appearence in the film and score. But the point remains the same only Williams didn't use it very much
Np: The Lost World (John Williams) Track: Hammonds plan (track with the island theme in it)
Jz
posted 08-10-2001 01:53 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
