It seemed like everyone gasped in horror when the rumor was
printed that the producers of Planet of the Apes wanted Elfman
to add an heroic theme to his score. I kept thinking why not???
Why not have an heroic theme for the main character to underscore
his rugged individualism in the face of Ape oppression or
when he rallied the humans to fight? Why not use a theme similar
to say Goldsmith’s main theme in The 13th Warrior?
(This was based on previews.) Then I saw the movie, and he wasn’t
nearly as heroic as I had thought he would be. Still, maybe some
type of heroic theme may have emotionally manipulated me into
caring a little more about him and others. (Sorry, but I thought
the movie was lame.) The underscore was serviceable and had
a few repeated short motifs (a motif does NOT a theme make),
but I didn’t feel it explored any new territory nor produced
anything memorable. I watched Instinct
the other night and felt it was a much more effective score.

I guess what I’m getting at is that I think it’s time for MORE film
scores to return the use of a notable, distinguished theme or
themes. Not ALL movies, but at least some.

I’d like to ask board members these questions.

1.How many truly memorable, well-respected soundtracks LACK
a discernible, melodic theme? I can only think of a few that were
truly groundbreaking in their emotional resonance, and given the nature
of their films’ subjects, worked well WITHOUT a melodic theme.
Two are Goldsmith’s Alien and POTA. Shore is also an
expert at subtly capturing horror without melodic
themes. Seven, Silence of the Lambs. Still, I hope
he is more thematic in Lord of the Rings. (Don’t equate melodic
themes with “slowness” or love. Action scores like Conan, Robo Cop,
Rambo, Jaws, Indiana Jones, etc. have melodic themes.)

2. Do you repeatedly listen to non thematic, non melodic scores?
Or do you revisit thematic scores more often?
(I just can’t get that involved in 74 minutes
of random notes than never coalesce into some type
of unified pattern at least a few times during the score.)

When I think about 5 star memorable scores, they have fully
developed themes. (Ben Hur, Conan, Mag Seven, To Kill A
Mockingbird, Best Years of Our Lives, GWTW, etc.) I find myself
returning to those types of scores more often.

3. When you think about the FIRST score that hooked you
on film music, was it thematic? (When I look over the lists of
first soundtracks most of you purchased, they seem thematic,
not just 74 minutes of arbitrary notes that may or
may not dovetail with the visuals.)

I’m not bemoaning ALL current scores. I practically wore out Dinosaur
and Mission to Mars last year, but again, they had several interesting
themes. And I’m not knocking synth or acoustical scores. Some
have melodies. I’m not screaming for a return to the Golden
Age type scores either. Regardless of the controversies over
composers like Zimmer or Horner, they can both write themes
that are appealing. I’m just frustrated and tired of finding so little
of interest in this year’s soundtracks.
(Don’t yell at me; maybe I’m having a hormonal moment. )

IMHO, it is a discernible, melodic, well-developed theme that
gives a movie its emotional underpinning, its center, and its ability
to be noteworthy and MEMORABLE.
I am hoping that SOME composers will return to thematic
compositions instead of scoring movies with strings zigging north,
woodwinds zagging south, brass zipping east, and percussion
zippidty-do-dahing into the west. I want the twain to meet.

ps. I know I've violated alot of grammatical standards and practices, so Sue me

I did some searching and tried to find soundtracks that would be lesser in thematic material, but didn't find anything except the types like Mark Snow's background music for X-Files...

Speaking of defending movie music themes, I would even go further and suggest that movie composers SHOULD take a glance at the Golden Age of their craft. Nowadays it seems that composers create only one or two themes on which they do endless variations boring soundtrack listeners to death. Naturally, every movie needs its own sound - I don't mean that every movie needs a rousing symphonic score - but yet even the fantasy movies of today seem to lack imaginitive, richly themed scores.

Just think how John Williams would have composed "Superman - The Movie" if it had been produced today? (I think this is one of the best examples of scores that are full of wonderfully different themes).

I think I'm generally on your side when it comes to thematic material. I'm a big fan of leitmotif, though it's not very commonly employed. Themelessness may be artistic...it may also be--what's the word?--boring, I suppose.

Sometimes the music that I like that I think has no theme actually does have a theme, and I'm just not realizing it. (I think of things like American Beauty and A Civil Action.

To the dismay of some, I actually like "techno" scores. I say "techno" perhaps without a full definition/comprehension of all that entails. That Paul Oakenfield mix at the end of the new Apes CD. That's great. His mixes on Swordfish, however, don't interest me much. There's something of a theme in the Apes mix. The Swordfish is just...repetitive.

I suppose many of the more "electronically percussive" scores (often Media Venture-originated) that I enjoy, such as Armageddon, The Rock--I don't consider them "techno", so much. There are themes in there. Sometimes I think they are too big to be heard. (I don't understand that all, myself...I was listening to Crimson Tide this morning and thinking, "Wow, this slow theme is awfully big..." By "big" I mean drawn-out....something that might seem repetitive if you only listened to it for maybe 30 seconds, 45 seconds or so....but if you listen to it for whole minutes, you start to realize the structure.....it's a fascinating realization. (Sort of like Chaos theory...it's not random--it's just part of a bigger pattern that's too big to be completely seen....)

Sorry if I'm a bit vague here, I wanted to say more but it's 2.30am here in UK and I'm near bed time!

Regarding this:
"I just can’t get that involved in 74 minutes
of random notes than never coalesce into some type of unified pattern at least a few times during the score."

Whoa! I'm a little surprised by this comment, to tell you the truth. Just because a score never forms a theme does not make the notes "random" or any less "unified." THE MATRIX never develops a lasting melody, but it is in no way a random score. It is a unique and delicate work, completely seamless in its style and mood, which in the case of this film delivers a much more powerful effect than a recurring theme. THE CELL, even though it may sound to some like it was completely improvisational, was another score which like THE MATRIX never develops a memorable melody but paints an incredibly intriguing and ingenious picture completely through sound and style.

Non-improvisational music is NEVER random, and even in improvisation there is always a distinct idea guiding the music.

In the case of PLANET OF THE APES, I don't think a more heroic theme, or a more memorable one, would have made the film any better. Indeed I think a heroic theme would have been out of place and, for me, might possibly have detracted from my enjoyment of the film (yes, I enjoyed it).

Some movies REQUIRE memorable themes. STAR WARS, THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN, GONE WITH THE WIND, LAWRENCE OF ARABIA... these are films which would add up to very little without the themes attached to them. But some movies do not require memorable themes. THE CELL needed a score as crazed but imaginative as its visuals... it did not need a theme. A theme would not have fared well in THE MATRIX... the recurring echoic brass notes have a much more chilling (and indeed memorable) effect.

And what about the approach to certain story-telling classical pieces? Stravinsky's THE RITE OF SPRING is an excellent example of music that easily paints scenes and tells a story, but does it with no thematic material.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying: I love thematic, melodic scores, and I welcome them just as much as anybody. But what I'm trying to convey is that scores which lack memorable themes should not be unwelcome, which is unfortunately the attitude many people seem to have.

A good piece of music need not be instantly hummable.

It's OK if you don't like or get enjoyment out of the less theme-dependent scores but to relegate it to the "waste of time" bin says that the only good film music is that one that has a tune that we dig.

quote:

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Originally posted by John C Winfrey:
There doesn't seem to be all that much variety or differentness from score to score on most composers now. Best, JW.[/B]

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