The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences may seem to think so, as the last two Oscars for "Best Original Score" have been handed to composers more known in classical music circles than film music circles. These two are John Corigliano and Tan Dun for their respective works on The Red Violin (1999) and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000).

Others may argue, on the other hand, some of the best music for film today is written by composers who've strictly produced more music for movies than classically-oriented music independent of image. John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Danny Elfman, Michael Kamen and Hans Zimmer are a few very successful composers who come to mind here.

Some may not want to even get into this discussion.

Re the differentiation between "classical" and film music composers, that's actually a point that makes it very difficult for me to keep order in my collection. Prokofiev is under "classical", but I might as well put him in the "film score" section.

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You are first and foremost a concert composer. What are your thoughts on that argument that film music is "less valid" an art form than concert composing?

Both serve a function; but, in film composing, you're not in full control of it the way you are in concert music--so the risk of compromise, or dilution of idea or structure, is great. In film, it's the director's vision, even of the music, which prevails, whereas in concert composing, it's your own vision. Opera is somewhat in the middle. It's interesting for me, having created an opera for the Metropolitan (The Ghost of Versailles,) I found that the work experience in opera partakes about equally of film and concert work. Because of the theatrical as well as musical nature of an opera, all the cutting and changes that would never happen in a concert piece happen in opera, as they do in film. What's key is whose vision it is. In absolute music, it's the composer's alone; in the theater, it's the composer's, and others'; and in film, it's the director's.
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Tan Dun's thoughts:

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Some people seem to think that film music is not as "pure" as classical music, and vice versa. What are your thoughts on that?

I am a composer doing both, and I don't know what other people's experiences are, but I think honestly that there is no difference. Artistically, both are extremely creative, and technically, there are normal distinctions - it's not a big deal. When you write a chamber music piece or when you write an opera - they're the same, but they're different, of course. The same goes for writing for film. All of the people involved are humans and artists, and there's a soul that you need to reach. No matter if you're doing a symphony or a film - they all have the same goal.

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But the question (see above) is:

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Originally posted by PeterK:
What's Dan Goldwasser's take?

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Well, honestly I don't think that classical composers are any "better" than film composers. They each have their own skills and talents. Ultimately, it's all about the movie - does the music work for the film?

I think that traditional classical composers might make good film composers - not necessarily "better" film composers. I think that their grasp of how to write for the orchestra might be better than some film composer who isn't as well-trained, but that doesn't mean they can write a good film score. John Corigliano and Tan Dun just happened to put out excellent film scores for those films. And considering the other nominees, I'm glad the Academy chose to vote in their favor.

But I don't think it's necessarily true that a classical composer who does a film score will automatically create a masterpiece, just as film composers won't necessarily write a masterpiece either.

In the end, you have a bunch of people who write music. Whether you think one is better than the other is merely a matter of taste.

Do traditional classical composers make better film music composers?

Ok, so the question can be interpreted in different ways. One is to interpret Classical Composer

A) Said composer who commonly and currently writes in a classical/neo-classical style, and/or usually coomposes clasically structured works. (i.e., Phillip Glass, John Corigliano.)

B) A classically-trained composer. (i.e., John Williams.)

For the sake of definition and contrast, I will list some composers who are more-or-less not classically trained, nor considered to be "classical" composers:
Danny Elfman, Hans Zimmer, Randy Newman.--all of whom have produced notable works of excellent quality, despite their musical origins.

That clarified(?), the question itself must be focused upon:

1) Do classical(definition A) composers write better music for film than composers who compose almost strictly for film?

Well, first it is usually noticed that the output of film scores for A-type classical composers is not usually as prolific as film-score composers. (e.g., John Corigliano - 3 scores in 20 years.)
This is not to say that they are not prolific composers.

The music that A-types compose is generally well-critically recieved. (For those who aspire to critical appeal.) Does it suit the film? Fairly well. Some Phillip Glass scores are strikingly minimalist as to note almost a distinct lack of score. (Slightly ironic, as Phillip Glass recently scored the 1931 Dracula--a film that had no score.) Some of Glass' "powerhouse" performances do accompany trailers (Philadelphia), and often are inserted into film for dramatic effect, usually with admirable results--The Truman Show.

Mathmatically, we might say that on the whole, Type-A Classical composers have had a stronger success rate with film scores...but that's merely given the fact that they compose so few.

Regularly employeed film composers do compose several films (some high-demand composers, granted, as few as 1 to 2 a year.) These composers are required to provide a constant and consistent stream of output, and do not often have the luxury of time. This is a testament to the discipline of the film composer.

This is also why many film composers' "sounds" may blend together (i.e., James Horner.)

What is also interesting is when a "regularly employed" film composer may take some time and compose a classically structured work/symphony--Michael Kamen, John Williams. These may be commissions, granted, but it displays the range of their ability.

Well...if you appreciate a significantly smaller body of work in the genre, then perhaps classical composers do yield a "better" body of work. But again, this is based mostly on critical opinion--(to which even John Corligiano pays little regard.)

After that, it's mainly personal preference.

And, as with all artists, there are good and bad pieces of work. Hopefully, to you, there are more good than bad, otherwise you wouldn't be a fan.....

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Originally posted by Lancelot:
B) A classically-trained composer. (i.e., John Williams.)

For the sake of definition and contrast, I will list some composers who are more-or-less not classically trained, nor considered to be "classical" composers:
Danny Elfman, Hans Zimmer, Randy Newman.--all of whom have produced notable works of excellent quality, despite their musical origins.

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I don't think that's what the term "classical composer" describes. *I* at least would definitely describe Modest Mussorgsky as a classical composer, and he was an autodidact.

1. are aware of musical history
2. know the various melodic and structural functions of music; You must know the rules before you can break them where music is concerned.
3. are knowledgeable about jazz theory
4. have a flare for the dramatic

those who don't are just wanna-be's like Trevor Rabin.

1. is aware of musical history?
2. knows the various melodic and structural functions of music?
3. is knowledgeable about jazz theory?
4. has a flare for the dramatic?

From Trevor Rabin's official site:

"My main instrument is and always will be guitar, although I love playing other instruments. For scoring I write on piano, mostly, or on paper....My father was the leader of the Johannesburg symphony; a great violinist. My mother was piano teacher....I studied music privately with a South African Professor named Walter Mony. As far as my biggest influences, I have many, but I would have to say right now Beethoven....My favorite composer is Ennio Morricone; he did the movie "The Mission."....The reason I got into film scoring is because the level of musicianship in general is higher and more challenging than in rock and roll...."

While I posted in haste, let me still say that even though Trevor Rabin may be aware of music history, that does not make him a good composer. And it is all the more grating that with this knowledge, he uses electronics rather than real musicians to create "music."

He may very well be a good musician, but his film music is schidt.

I know all that stuff, but that doesn't make me a good composer. If you wanna nitpick.

and to my knowledge, Rabin has not composed a jazz score.

He has yet to prove himself. His continual association with Bruckheimer-style films is not encouraging.

oh, and I've also got it on good word that Rabin is about as weak a composer as there ever has been in Hollywood.

why he's given a chance to score films when there are so many other better composers out there is beyond me.

I'd like to say that it depends largely on the nature of the film. Corigliano was perfect for The Red Violin, but how appropriate a score would he have written for, perhaps, Rugrats in Paris?

That's my ultra-minimalist take on film composers. Though it would be to some fans' pleasure, Trevor Rabin [et. al.] hasn't quit scoring films, despite the (conservatively) low appeal--in fact, wrath, on occasion--that he seems to draw from folks like yourself.

As long as he keeps working, I'll keep giving him a chance. It's the evolution process....

*cough**hack!*

Anyway, as far as the actual topic of this thread is concerned, I think my opinions were excellently expressed earlier by such notables as Mat Perkins and Dan Goldwasser(and interviewees), so I'll try not to waste everyone's valuable reading time by elaborating too much further. Instead, I think I'll just try to sum my opinions up in one sentence:

...

Np: Atlantis: The Lost Empire *****/*****