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Morricone's Phantom of the Opera
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Topic: Morricone's Phantom of the Opera

joan hue

Oscar® Winner

I’ve recently seen on the shelves the DVD for The Phantom of the Opera scored
by Ennio Morricone. Has anyone heard the music to this? Good?
Melodic? Does Morricone compose underscore AND original opera
arias for this movie?(One aside: it is located on the top shelf which the owner refers to as
the “erotica” shelf. Heck, I’m over 21, way over.
)NP A Fistful of Dollars
[Message edited by joan hue on 06-11-2001]
posted 06-11-2001 10:14 PM PT (US) 
Pete M

Oscar® Winner

Unfortunately, this is the only Argento/Morricone score I've not got, or even heard. The film is not released in the UK until July, so I guess I'll rent it then, being the huge Argento fan that I am. I'm sure OHMSS76 will tell you to steer well clear of the film. But I have also been wondering about the score, & was seriously considering starting a topic just like this one, to ask what anyone (Sean?) thought of it. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but still...
As far as I'm aware, Morricone didn't write any Aria's or such for the film. The music heard in the actual Opera house itself is I believe mostly from Gounod's Faust.
I think I'm probably not that typical of Argento/Morricone fans in that my favourite of the four I've got is Stendhal (terrific theme, works very well in the film), even if my favourite of the films is the Bird with the Crystal Plumage.
posted 06-12-2001 03:47 AM PT (US) 
Matt Perkins

Oscar® Winner

Joan,
I have this CD - very nice if not exactly top-drawer Morricone. The disc opens with a beautiful, heartbreaking romantic theme (unmistakeably Morricone and deeply gorgeous!) which is reprised a couple of tracks later in a lovely (and all-too-brief) choral setting.
However, the romantic stuff is outweighed on the disc by a lot of darker, more dissonant material which might not invite repeated playing (definitely hasn't in my case, I have mainly stuck to the main romantic theme).
I haven't played the whole disc in a while - I'll have another listen when I get home tonight and try to give you a more rounded opinion tomorrow! But if you love Morricone (as I do) then you will definitely want to have this for the haunting, bittersweet stuff.
Haven't seen the movie at all - Argento's movies never seem to get a proper theatrical UK release (I guess they always run into trouble with the censor) so I can't comment on the score in the context of the movie.posted 06-12-2001 05:22 AM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

I totally agree with you Matt...but Mom!, why not spend your cash on something better like Il Buono, Il Brutto, Il Cattivo (the Good The Bad The etc) expanded release?!
posted 06-12-2001 07:11 AM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

Sorry Mom
...you were talking about the DVD!I must have my eyesight tested

NP : Felt Mountain - Goldfrapp
posted 06-12-2001 07:13 AM PT (US) 
Matt Perkins

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Timmer:
NP : Felt Mountain - Goldfrapp[/B]Tim -you are spooking me out big time! I just bought this lovely Goldfrapp CD at the weekend, been playing it ever since. It's bloody lovely isn't it? Very Morricone-esque in places, Barry-esque in others - pretty good combination...
Matt
posted 06-12-2001 07:21 AM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

Matt, it was YOUR reply on Thor's 'What have you bought in June' thread over at the FSM board that made me play Felt Mountain this afternoon
...see my post there 
Superb album!...any idea if Goldfrapp has done anything else?
[Message edited by Timmer on 06-12-2001]
posted 06-12-2001 10:24 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Joan, I've got the CD as well and whole-heartedly agree w/ what Matt has to say about it. The theme is absolutely beautiful, and if you love Morricone, you really can't go wrong... it's not a CD that I listen to a lot, but when I do, I enjoy it a great deal.
posted 06-12-2001 11:02 AM PT (US) 
Matt Perkins

Oscar® Winner

Timmer -dunno if Goldfrapp have done anything else, I'll have a trawl through the web. Cheers mate,
M.Joan -had another listen-through to the whole PHANTOM CD last night and it's pretty much as I said before - the main melodic material is contained in the opening love theme (Sospiri e Sospiri -any Italians out there who can translate this?), which is reprised twice more on the CD (at exactly the same track-length but with minor variations in orchestration), plus the nice choral piece I mentioned.
In between is a lot of moody, typically Morricone-esque suspense cues and some dissonance, some of which is a bit hard on the ears due to the somewhat cramped, "close-mikey" sound on this CD (the orchestra sound as if they have been squeezed into Ennio's dining room to record the score!).
Disappointingly, there's no strong theme for the Phantom himself as far as I can hear, just a rapidly repeating, descending motif (which gets a nice solo organ workout later in the disc - VERY Phantom of the Opera!). So, not a wholehearted recommendation, but still a pretty good score (average Morricone is still tons better than most of the other stuff out there)
The movie looks to be a different spin on the tale, with the Phantom not wearing a mask(!), and sporting a rather odd long hair-do (looks like a blonde Goth!). As played by Britain's most wooden actor, Julian Sands (how does this man stay in employment?!) I have no idea how effective this interpretation would be - guess I'll have to rent the movie and find out. As for it being filed under "erotica", Joan, I can't comment, although the CD does feature a couple of nice photos of Asia Argento looking gorgeous (Dario's daughter I assume?)posted 06-13-2001 01:54 AM PT (US) 
Matt Perkins

Oscar® Winner

Forgot to add: sadly no Morricone operatic music on this disc (and one presumes none in the movie itself). Pity that.
This disc could have done with the inclusion of perhaps one or two short opera pieces (Morricone-composed or not) to add a bit of variation/contrast.
posted 06-13-2001 03:36 AM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

Matt, my copy is English titled, I presume Sospiri e Sospiri translates as Sighs and Sighs...and it is a lovely track
posted 06-13-2001 04:30 AM PT (US) 
joan hue

Oscar® Winner

Thank you all for your insights and opinions on this score. Based on
your recommendations, I rented the DVD and thought Morricone’s love
theme was gorgeous. Also liked the opera arias and am sad to hear
that they weren’t included on the CD. Matt, your assessment seems very accurate. Strong love theme with more dissonant action cues.The film is just plain WEIRD. Don’t expect it to be like the other Phantom
of the Opera movies. This is the first Argento movie I’ve seen and didn’t
know that he was into horror. This movie was really into “gag/upchuck” horror.
Not scary, just gross.
Lots of body parts being ripped out, lots of blood, and fairly
graphic sex and nudity. I kind of kept hoping it would get back to the opera
stage and the music. Rather inane dialogue. Still Morricone, as always,
provides an interesting score.I think my favorite Phantom in terms of music is the
one staring Claude Rains as the Phantom.(To my “boys:” Shawn, Timmer, JJH, Jeron and the rest of you...you’re NOT
old enough to watch this film according to mom.
)NP The Big Country
posted 06-13-2001 05:00 PM PT (US) 
Matt Perkins

Oscar® Winner

The movie sounds, er...very interesting, Joan! Yes, Argento is definitely a man who likes his weirdness and graphic imagery - he's a strange man, but at least his films have a bit of individuality I suppose!Have you seen Hammer's 1962 PHANTOM with Herbert Lom? The movie is a bit disappointing in some ways but the music is very good - by Edwin Astley (famous for THE SAINT theme), and the opera within the movie (based on the story of Joan of Arc) is all composed by Astley, with a gorgeous, soaring romantic theme which Astley works into the dramatic underscore at various points.
posted 06-14-2001 01:42 AM PT (US) 
Timmer

Oscar® Winner

With all the imminent (and mouthwatering
) upcoming GDI releases I wonder if Astley's Phantom will see the light of day?!
posted 06-14-2001 05:18 AM PT (US) 
OHMSS76

Oscar® Winner

Oh for the love of God!!!! I'm too late!!!If only I had arrived sooner, I could have saved you Joan from this abomination of a 'film'. This movie is just awful, and such a pale shadow of Argento's better films.
As Pete predicted, I must warn everyone to get the DRG CD of the Maestro's score(although I have yet to myself) and avoid this turkey....we can only hope that NONHOSONNO is better....
I finally got the DVD of DEEP RED last week, and while the violence may be off-putting to Miss Joan
it sure is a great film. Involving plot, wonderful visuals....a horror film must. And if you're going to frag me because of 'questionable' acting in these films, get lost. How can you not be engrossed when David Hemmings walks down that hallway, trying to remember the forgotten clue at the end, and the shock when he does.So there! Now I'm going to read the rest of this thread

NP:Small Soldiers(Goldsmith)Dunham Edition
Bravo J!~Sean
posted 06-14-2001 09:50 AM PT (US) 
OHMSS76

Oscar® Winner

PS....yes Joan, Argento makes some of the most gruesome horrific films you will see, but typically there is something behind this mayhem...in PHANTOM, Argento just throws in buckets of grue to keep the audience awake.A more uninvolving rendition of PHANTOM will never be seen.....
S~
posted 06-14-2001 09:53 AM PT (US) 
joan hue

Oscar® Winner

Matt, I can't remember the H. Lom movie, but I'll look into it for the music.OHMSS76, I'm far from delicate(
) and don't mind violence at all in a movie if it contributes to the film. I just don't care for gore for gore's sake; it isn't scary, and I love horror movies that scare me. Recommend some Argento movies you think are good. I'll see if Deep Red is around.Thanks for all this great information.
NP Valley of Gwangi Compilation
posted 06-14-2001 03:37 PM PT (US) 
OHMSS76

Oscar® Winner

Hi Joan!Didn't mean to imply anything of the sort....my tastes are just rather jaded.
The thing about Argento is that he typically makes the same movie each time, reconfiguring the setting and characters. His masterpiece is arguably SUSPERIA, with a great(and cited by FSM as one of 100 Great Scores on CD!) score by Goblin. The movie is very violent, but visually hypnotic and involving. For me it blends surrealist,silent, and avant garde film techniques, along with traditional 'scary movie' plot trappings. His other films are more along the lines of standard 'whodunnit' plotting. His animal trilogy (The Bird with the Crystal Plumage,Cat o' Nine Tails,Four Flies on Grey Velvet) level out the violence a bit, focusing more on atmosphere and tension so that may be a good place to start. They all have alternatly eerie/tonal scores by Ennio Morricone.
The (somewhat unfinished) Three Mothers Trilogy(Susperia,Inferno, and either Tenebrae or Phenomena) are more gruesome, but visually stunning and form a sort of Gothic-Operatic arch. Inferno boasts a wonderful score by Keith Emerson for piano,orchestra, and chorus, while the other two films have more standard(but still excellent IMO) synth scores by various people.Hope this very brief thumbnail sketch of Dario Argento helps a bit

All the best,
Seanposted 06-14-2001 03:48 PM PT (US) 
OHMSS76

Oscar® Winner

PS....the violence in his films may seem unecessary, but it's a matter of opinion I suppose. Do the antagonist's need to be so violent towards their victims? Usually no, but this is what makes Argento's work stand out from the standard stalk n' slash. There are plenty of scary moments in PROFONDO ROSSO, and these scenes are somewhat balanced by the gore.I'm interested to know what other people think on this topic...and dismissive "It sucks" posts are unwelcome

Grazia! Pass the pasta,
Seanposted 06-14-2001 04:02 PM PT (US) 
joan hue

Oscar® Winner

Thanks, Sean, for the recommendations. I’ll look for them. I appreciate
your suggestions.Please pass the breadsticks!!

My two cents or ramblings on violence in movies.
How most audiences react to violence often depends on the NOVELTY
or uniqueness of its employment in a scene. The original Psycho shower scene
stunned, shocked, and really scared audiences AT THAT TIME. By today’s
standards, it is pretty tame because the envelope on violence has been pushed
a lot further. Bonnie And Clyde is another movie whose ending once shocked
the audience. The bullets became a metallic wall holding up their already dead
bodies. It was an odd combination of beauty and grotesqueness, and that end
scene served to show how truly paranoid the law was about these criminals.
(Historically not an accurate movie.) Peckinpah broke new ground with his
alternating edits and slow motion shots making violence an alluring ballet in
The Wild Bunch. (Great Fielding music too.) However, his choreography of
death and mayhem has been mimicked many times muting the
shock value.I think some movies must show violence, or they’ll lose the impact
of their themes. How can a movie portray man’s inhumanity to man without
seeing the effects of our actions? Schindler’s List must show us the horror
of genocide. Could we really appreciate the sacrifice our grandfathers made
at Normandy in SPR if Spielberg had tamed the realism of the invasion? A poem, a painting, a photo, a song, a movie or any art form sometimes needs graphic gore.On the other hand, when it comes to horror or scary movies, I appreciate the
director who empowers the audience’s fears by leaving some things to our
imaginations. The most frightening aspect of fear resides in our ability to imagine
what is taking place. For me, one of the scariest movies is Alien. It broke new
ground by having the creature burst out of the man’s stomach. Bloody, gory,
novel and scary.
But Ridley Scott didn’t pursue blood baths throughout the film. When the alien
towards the end corners the girl and man, we see its tail going around her leg
and hear their screams through Ripley’s earphones. Truly one of the scariest
scenes. I can still hear the lady gulping and pleading and imagine that scene.
First attack in Jaws is another fine example. Really scary. What is dragging
her? What is pulling her under? Her panicked breathing is frightening. By the
end we get to see the full meal deal. I find these movies a lot scarier than
say The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which I’ve yet to watch in its entirety.I say yes to violence in many cases. Even Disney movies don’t avoid violence.
Daddy lion died in The Lion King. I just think it should be judiciously employed
and serve some purpose other than a gag reflex.Meandering over.
NP Day of the Dolphins
[Message edited by joan hue on 06-14-2001]
posted 06-14-2001 10:18 PM PT (US) 
OHMSS76

Oscar® Winner

I totally agree with you Joan, except that Texas Chainsaw is a somewhat tame film really(the filmmakers were going for a PG rating!), and you only see one brief shot of 'homemade' gore when Leatherface cuts his leg....everything else is implied. That film is a real nightmare, but very well done, and the DVD has a good commentary by Hooper,cinematographer Daniel Pearl and star Gunnar Hansen. But I agree that things are better implied than shown many times(unless we're talking zombie movies, which are my true favorite
). Two of the most terrifying films I've ever seen are THE HAUNTING(get it widescreen,really...and I meant the Robert Wise version, not the useless 99' version) and THE VANISHING(again the Dutch version). Especially the Vanishing, everything is implied with no gore, but that film will stay with you like nobody's business.
NP:Small Solidiers-Expanded(JG)All the best,
Seanposted 06-15-2001 03:48 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
