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      The best of the best of the best...

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    Topic:   The best of the best of the best...

     Probable
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    Alright, you mugs, here's the deal, see? I know this guy, real Ivy League type, thinks film music is a waste of time. His line is that, with all the great classical music out there, there just isn't time or money enough to bother with lowly film scores.

    I'm out to change his mind.

    The first step is as follows: He has agreed to listen to a mix tape if I put one together. I intend to assemble a mix of film music, game music(à la Soule or Uematsu), and classical music, in random order, and I'm not going to give him any track titles. I want all of the music to be powerful and deeply moving. As and after he listens to it, I'm going to defy him to tell me which of the music was classical and which wasn't.

    So what I need is ideas for tracks to include. I want only the cream of the crop, people - the absolute best film score tracks ever written. For those of you with knowledge thereof (Brian and Jeron, for example), I want game music tracks as well. I also want some relatively obscure but powerful classical music.

    I want to have the tape completely ready in 5 days. I'm counting on you here, folks. Let's get these names in, and let's have them be magnificent.

    ok, go!

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    posted 06-03-2001 03:14 PM PT (US)     

     TimT
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    But.... why compare it to Classical music? They are two different things, a different genre, as far as I'm concerned. I for one do not like like Classical music that much.
    I don't know what to recommend,it may not even help, because either he likes something or he doesn't.
    Film Music found me, I didn't go looking for it.

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    posted 06-03-2001 03:28 PM PT (US)     

     John C Winfrey
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    I like both, my friend. Use some Korngold and Rozsa mixed in since they did both. Also some of that Alan Rawthorne stuff on that quiz a while back was superb. Mix that in. Some of the best Goldsmith and some of the old classic Newman mixed in. There are some ideas for you. John.

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    posted 06-03-2001 03:52 PM PT (US)     

     Shaun Rutherford
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    As much as I regret having to invoke the name of Trek here, using "The Enterprise" from Goldsmith's first score wouldn't be a bad idea.

    Shaun

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    posted 06-03-2001 04:11 PM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    Probable, I wouldn't bother with that challenge. As TimT says, they're different animals. Whilst film music CAN stand shoulder to shoulder with classical music, it doesn't have to, nor should it. Having said that, I agree with John's selections, kind of crossover material. Have you heard David Raksin's work on Forever Amber for example? And by equating film music with the best of classical music, are we excluding all the great jazz/modern scores out there (which may or may not stand up to the best of the jazz/modern stuff).

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    posted 06-03-2001 04:24 PM PT (US)     

     Lancelot
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    These probably won't be very specific--I don't like to say to someone "Listen to THIS!"--I'd rather put it on, and see what, if anything, intrigues them/appeals to them....but if you get the drift, it might help you along...(This is, in part, based on reaction that I have observed in people upon hearing/overhearing film scores....)


    "Easy Street":
    "The Dark Side Beckons" from Return of the Jedi.
    Closing Credits from Glory, Hymn from Courage Under Fire.
    "Theology/Civilization" from Conan the Barbarian.
    Something from
    Edward Scissorhands.
    Don Juan DeMarco
    Legend of 1900
    Much Ado About Nothing
    The Prince of Egypt
    The Shawshank Redemption

    "Shall We Play A Game?":
    Medal Of Honor: Underground - Mannon's Theme, Battle of Monte Cassino. (it's all good.)
    Bruce Broughton's Heart of Darkness.

    "Slightly Challenging":
    Adventures of Don Juan - Max Steiner.
    Lionheart - Jerry Goldsmith

    "If you can find it":
    Selections from Victor Young's Around the World in 80 Days
    John Scott's - The Final Countdown

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    posted 06-03-2001 04:28 PM PT (US)     

     Big Bear
    unregistered  

    Almost any Rozsa or (Alex) North would, I feel, would serve to silence any reasonably intelligent naysayer.

    I think Ben-Hur, Spartacus... these are intelligent, sophisticated works on a grand symphonic scale. Just as there were many classical pieces written for narrative forms like ballet, such are the great film scores of our time.

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    posted 06-03-2001 04:37 PM PT (US)     

     Crono/Kyp
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    Interesting.......

    For game music, I would go with "Final Fantasy VIII Orchestra" tracks.

    I'd say:

    Dance With The Balamb Fish
    Balamb Garden

    I also might suggest track 8 from "Hannibal" there is no dialouge in the track.

    I would stray away from themes because if he has seen the movie or played the game, he might know the theme (if he took the time to remember.)

    I'll give this some thought and be back later, but those are my ideas for now.

    --Brian

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    posted 06-03-2001 04:55 PM PT (US)     

     Probable
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    Some good suggestions so far, but keep 'em coming.


    Tim, Graham - Sorry, guys, I don't really want to debate whether or not you should compare classical and film music. I did not start this thread to have any debate of that nature. All I wanted was some help finding superb tracks. If it's easier, pretend I didn't give you the backstory, I just asked for some names of the best film music tracks ever.

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    posted 06-03-2001 07:44 PM PT (US)     

     James
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    The first two tracks of Corigliano's The Red Violin. Something from Altered States could serve well, too.

    Something from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, maybe "Sorrow" or "The Eternal Vow."

    "Adagio" from Goldenthal's Alien 3.

    If you want to give him sort of a "trick question," include Don Davis' piano piece "Illicit Felicity," which is a concert work based on a film score (Bound).

    And speaking of Davis, something from Warriors of Virtue, perhaps? "The Price Petard" from House on Haunted Hill would be great, too. You could try The Matrix as well, but the elctronics would give it away.

    "A Wild and Distant Shore" or "Big My Secret" from Nyman's The Piano.

    For classical music, perhaps you could throw in a bit of Rozsa's Hungarian Sketches. If you want music that's not very well-known, pick up Gloria Cheng's CD Piano Dance: A 20th-Century Portrait on Telarc. Some great piano work by many composers you've probably never heard of.

    James
    NP - Bleeding Particles (Don Davis)

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    posted 06-03-2001 08:46 PM PT (US)     

     SCimmerian
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    Herrmann:Concerto Macabre for Hangover Square.Rozsa:Lust for Life.Copland:The Red Pony. L.Bernstein:On the Waterfront.Herrmann again:Vertigo,Mysterious Island,Beneath the 12-Mile Reef.Prokofiev:Alexander Nevsky,Ivan the Terrible.Rozsa again:Ben-Hur,Ivanhoe,El Cid.Newman:The Robe.Waxman:Tarus Bulba. Goldsmith:First Knight. hopes this helps.

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    posted 06-03-2001 09:33 PM PT (US)     

     Crono/Kyp
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    Another idea! Track 9 from Edward Scissorhands "Edward the Barber."

    --Brian

    NP: Edward Scissorhands (Danny Elfman)

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    posted 06-03-2001 09:47 PM PT (US)     

     James
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    "Tricks of the Trade" and "The Creation" from John Ottman's Incognito!

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    posted 06-04-2001 07:11 AM PT (US)     

     Scorro
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    If you have access to these scores, try em.

    Chouans! (Delerue), main title

    Tours du Monde, Tours du Ciel (Delerue) several tacks apply

    Portait Of A Lady (Kilar), several tracks apply

    William The Conqueror (John Scott), main theme

    There are others, but to me these aren't only great works of music; they have that inexplicable quality of comparison to classical music, perhaps.

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    posted 06-04-2001 08:25 AM PT (US)     

     Probable
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    Some excellent stuff here, so far. Great!

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    posted 06-04-2001 10:21 AM PT (US)     

     John Dunham
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    From the Princess Mononoke Symphony album: The Legend Of Ashitaka and The World Of The Dead.

    From Joe Hisaishi's Works: II CD: the suite from Sonatine and the cue Asian Dream Song.

    From Nyman's The Claim: The Burning, and perhaps The Snowy Death as well.

    From Philip Glass' Kundun: Escape To India

    From John Barry's The Lion In Winter: the Main Title.

    From Alan Silvestri's Contact: Good To Go.

    I'd list more, but there are too many good ones. A word of caution: while Williams' music is good, it's too recognizable. Also avoid Horner.

    NP: Atlantis, JNH ****½ (Track: Touring The City)

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    posted 06-04-2001 10:59 AM PT (US)     

     Big Bear
    unregistered  

    quote:
    Originally posted by John Dunham:
    From Alan Silvestri's Contact: Good To Go

    Bravo!

    One of the best pieces of scoring I have heard in all my years... first time I saw it, I was white-knuckling my seat in the movie theater.

    [Message edited by Big Bear on 06-04-2001]

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    posted 06-04-2001 01:44 PM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    Probable, I wasn't much help before, was I? Let me try to rectify that. I won't mention people like magnificent Miklos Rozsa however, because although his scores are amongst the greatest in film history,I think everyone who has been exposed to films in any way would conjure up epic movie images from just hearing the opening bars. That's true also of something like David Raksin's sublime Forever Amber: the Newman string sound has become part of our culture, and I think most people would say "film music" after even the briefest of listens.

    So you're looking for film music that doesn't sound like film music? I'm not being much help yet, so let me just dive in head first and give you some things that have come to mind:

    Bernard Herrmann: maybe one of his achingly heart-felt love themes (eg Vertigo).

    John Williams: the lesser-known stuff. "Restoration" from Jane Eyre is a cracking piece. Or what about the anguished "Arlington" from JFK? These concert-versions of his from Angela's Ashes or 7 Years In Tibet might work too.

    Have you got any Philippe Sarde? Fort Saganne has got some amazing cello tracks on it.

    Patrick Doyle has done some exqusite work. Try his elegy from Carlito's Way, or his..."Hob Nobbly Nobbliness"...(?)...from Henry V.

    James has mentioned John Corigliano. Good choices there (though it might be cheating to use work by someone who isn't really a film composer).

    Goldsmith's "The Artist Who Did Not Want To Paint" may be bending the rules a bit too, but you ought to squeeze it in because it's bloody blinking wondrous.

    If you want, you may try some more experimental stuff also. Goldsmith's "No Escape" from Planet Of The Apes is a humdinger, and thankfully hasn't become a cliche. That's still a strikingly original score.

    Leonard Rosenman: I'd say that much of his stuff could be played quite comfortably in the concert hall. Fantastic Voyage as a whole, for instance, or the 9 minute-plus "Cal's Vindication And Finale" from East Of Eden. That's an absolutely spell-binding piece of music.

    Oh, and Goldenthal, as someone else said.

    Good luck! Hope I've been a better help this time! Or do I STILL not understand you?


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    posted 06-04-2001 02:32 PM PT (US)     

     Crono/Kyp
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    On the edge of sleep about 2 hours ago, I thought of Patrick Doyle's Hamlet.

    I saw the film a few weeks ago for school and the music is very good.

    --Brian

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    posted 06-04-2001 04:27 PM PT (US)     

     Probable
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    That was very helpful, Graham, thanks I don't think it matters if I try to pick stuff that sounds like film music or not, though. Film music is too diverse to really have a 'sound', IMO, especially if it's the best film music. Then it really transcends genres.

    Great suggestions, though, and John, lots of good stuff there, backed up by BB on Contact(love that score!).

    Brian - sorry man, haven't heard Hamlet. I'll look for it at the music store tomorrow, though.

    This is great!


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    posted 06-04-2001 09:15 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    It always comes back to Herrmann for me. I'd suggest the Phase-4 Three Worlds of Gulliver suite, a tad slow in the tempo department but it really shows off its orchestration. The thing is a pastiche of classical music in places but really great scoring. I'd also suggest Herrmann's suite from The Devil and Daniel Webster which covers a lot of ground: Americana style mixed with Herrmann's dark and romantic sides, a description which would also apply to his The Ghost and Mrs. Muir which would also be a good thing to send your Ivy Leaguer.

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    posted 06-06-2001 10:53 PM PT (US)     

     Jeron
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    Pete, I've got a couple obscure but powerful classical tracks I can send you. One being from Joseph Curiale's "Awakening" (modern classical) and the other from Kamen's "The New Moon in the Old Moon's Arms" (more modern classical). These are absolute musts... non-negotiable.

    I also have several of the John Scott and Don Davis cds mentioned (as well as Hisaishi's Works II), so if you would like tracks from those, just lemme know.

    Jeron

    [Message edited by Jeron on 06-07-2001]

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    posted 06-07-2001 01:29 AM PT (US)     

     Kyriacos S
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    I believe that you should also include John Williams's HOOK.It's like listening to delicate Tchaikovsky!I would recommend tracks 6 and 9.They are absolutely gorgeous!I'm sure that this guy you are talking about, will confuse Tink's theme with the 'Dance of the Sugar-Plum Fairy' by Tchaikovsky!

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    posted 06-07-2001 03:54 AM PT (US)     

     Camillu
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    Not sure how identifiable it is as film music, but Zbigniew Preisner's 'Homecoming' from When a man loves a woman is sublime.

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    posted 06-07-2001 02:01 PM PT (US)     

     Probable
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    More good ideas!

    Jeron - send it over whenever, man.

    The rest of you - thanks! I'm recording side 1 tonight and side 2 tomorrow, so this is the last chance to mention anything. I'll put up a complete tracklisting once I finish the tape. I'm also putting it onto CD, so since it's "the best of the best of, etc.," some of you may be interested in a copy. Let me know.

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    posted 06-07-2001 05:49 PM PT (US)     

     jonathan_little
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    I'm with John Winfrey -- find some Korngold to pop on there.

    Close out the disc with "The Getaway" from Goldsmith's Flim Flam Man. That will change his opinion of film music!

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    posted 06-07-2001 07:16 PM PT (US)     

     sakman
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    The problem you are going to have is that some of that music will get "attacked" for being "derivative" of classical music. It sounds like that's the mentality you may be dealing with. Also, while I cannot imagine my CD library without all the Howard Hanson symphonies, I can't imagine how much I've adored Korngold's scores, Waxman, North, etc.

    And when you begin to realize how much time and energy went into music that would likely be reproduced through a speaker worse than a car stereo it makes you rethink this music a lot.

    Imagine "Bride of Frankenstein" without music, or "King Kong"...how about "Adventures of Robin Hood" or "Peyton Place" or "To Kill a Mockingbird"...not to mention the fun of "The Pink Panther"...the simplicity of "Jaws"...the complexity of "Planet of the Apes."

    Watch your friend think that Leonard Bernstein's or Copland's scores are "better" and you will discover a historical understanding of "classical" music of the East Coast and the "paid" music of the West Coast.

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    posted 06-08-2001 09:33 PM PT (US)     
     

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