I come here to discuss film music (but usually wind up talking politics, which is just as well, since people here don't seem to want to talk about Auric and Arnold and Maurice Jaubert). It's a great site, Pete has done a good job on it, but I do disagree with some of the things he's done over time and I do bring them up again and again. He's gotten a lot better, but I also know his hard hand can still come down over things I think it shouldn't, and that he should get flak over it if and when it does.

Likewise, I'm at odds with two types of people at the board: those who promote films, scores, and composers I dislike and those who don't like the tone I take doing so and feel I should be polite, respect other people's opinions, be "decent", etc.

To the first, I act jerky (maybe I shouldn't but I have a hard time seperating my ideas out from my emotions) and to the second I act real jerky because it's no longer a debate over art and culture but over speech and behavior and freedom.

Call me rebel, but I don't like authority and I don't like people telling me how I should or shouldn't behave. Freedom means the freedom to be a jerk, as long as you don't hurt anyone physically (which you can't do on-line, your hand or mine can't come through the computer screen and punch at each other).

People have reminded me that even speech has limits like yelling fire in a theater. Let's see. FIRE!!! Look Ma, no panic. People have told me it's a private site not a public space and that I should abide by the rules. People have said I shouldn't make personal attacks against composers or the people who like them. People have said a lot of things to shut me up, all of them as much out of line to me as they think I've been rude to them.

It's not my job to watchdog the site or people's lives the way some groups constantly watch the government with distrust always on the lookout for scandals and abuses of power.

I'm a contrarian, but don't see it as my job or duty. I'm not always looking down on people as the stupid unwashed masses that I'm so much better than--It's fun to go there but ultimately that's egotistical delusion, pretention. I don't need to build myself up at the expense of others.

I do care. Not about what people think of me, but about what people think. I care that bad films get made, I care that music I can't listen to is praised here as the end all be all of film music, etc.

I can be bitter, I can be cynical, I can be unhappy, I do have insecurities, but this is not a 24 hrs a day on-call way of life for me. I can also be happy, I do love and appreciate things. And, if I'm negative, it's only my own fault, not anyone else's or the world's. I'm the one still attached to my desires to have things in a way that pleases me.

Just ignore the lot of them.

Personally, I tend to think of them the same way I do of pop-up ad windows: they're a moments nuisance.

Oh dear, does that make me a snob?

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Originally posted by Lou Goldberg:
Call me rebel, but I don't like authority and I don't like people telling me how I should or shouldn't behave.

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No one's telling you how to do anything. But if you want people to take you seriously, you might want to show them some common courtesy.

And you are anything but a rebel. I could direct you to several punk music message boards where you can meet about a thousand people just like you, Mr. Rebel.

Oh wait, there is one difference. Most of them are about fifteen years old.

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Freedom means the freedom to be a jerk, as long as you don't hurt anyone physically (which you can't do on-line, your hand or mine can't come through the computer screen and punch at each other).

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Thanks for the hot tip. And if this is your idea of what real 'hurt' is, just do yourself a favor and don't ever have children. I'd hate to think of the psychological abuse they'd have to endure, all with you justifying your crass and angry attitude merely because you never raised a hand to them.

Words can hurt, dude. You know it. Yet you casually ignore this because insulting people gets your primitive rocks off.

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I get a kick out of them--and if egos get pushed around, no one really gets hurt, so all the fuss people make over it is ridiculous.

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I think you mean 'you don't get hurt'... and that you don't really care about anyone but yourself. If you'd just be honest about your selfishness, I think we'd all accept your crap a little more.

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You, Lance & BB, should stop caring about who's acting decent or not and follow suit.

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I treat others the way I'd like to be treated. This is precisely what is happening to you, Lou. You are being a jerk, and people are treating you as one. You can either deal with the consequences of your actions or change the way you communicate with people.

It's that simple. These aren't my rules. They are common sense.

dave

NP : Mummy Returns

I like rebels, but I have no mohawk, piercings, blue hair, tatoos, leather or anything else that would indicate I'm anything but a square briefcase boy in a suit. As for the 15 year olds, there will always be a conflict between youth and older people, and this is not a bad thing, as long as it doesn't express itself like Columbine or the 14 yr old who shot his teacher in the face. I do shake my head that the young have nothing but Horner and Zimmer to listen to watching bad movies like Enemy at the Gates and Pearl Harbor. If I'd grown up around that wasteland of culture, I'd probably have shot my classmates too. But outside of that, the young are fine by me.

People have said that they can't take me seriously before. Whether I'm talking about films or politics I think I've put forth my opinions, logic, and ideas in a very clear way. You know where I come from. I will say Someone sucks but I often say why and I argue the best I know how against all the counter-reasons people make. I don't feel the need to always couch talk in polite conversation and academic rhetoric. A fu/ck you is perfectly appropriate language to me because it expresses an emotional response to what someone else is trying to put over on you, even if it some people can't take the statement seriously.

In the end, if people like so & so and his music that's fine, they just do, they can't help it. I like what I like for reasons I can't always articulate other than, "I just do" either.

I can be selfish, but to say I don't care for people other than myself is simply untrue. If that's the only image you get from my posts however, I guess that's my fault. It's a mystery to me why insulting people is fun, but it can be. Thankfully it doesn't take serial killing or child molesting to get me off or we'd all be in a bind.

Words can hurt if you let them. But, I'm not out to really hurt people here. Shock them, mess with them, maybe get them to think, irritate them if they are going to be so stubbornly entrenched, but I'm never out to destroy anyone and even if I were my words by themselves don't carry that power. Sticks and stones do, words don't.

I think the people on the board who complain about me are being way too sensitive. I called someone a goody-two-shoes, a 4th grader's insult, and it worked him up. If you look over my posts, you'll find me saying silly things and in return being called everything in the book from people who are insisting that I be nice. What hypocrisy. I'm not actually bothered by any of the things you and others say to me. I'm simply answering them. What does bother me and what my real target is, is the repressive potential of the people who self-righteously insist that people behave a certain way. If this were the real world instead of a chat board, I'm sure a lot of you would insist I go around worse than a Muslim woman under the Taliban and that if I were to say 'Horner sucks' you'd just line me up against a wall. That's what you people are, for all your talk about not behaving like jerks, you treat the rude just as rudely and don't see it as the same vice. Instead you call me pariah for acting out my freedom and saying a few things bluntly. What a croc of crocodiles. You write that no one is telling me to act one way or another, but you wouldn't even write the post at all if you weren't trying to pressure me in some way.

Here's what I suggest you do concerning my posts and anyone else's: accept them as they are, take whatever info you can out of them, blow off what you think is insulting or annoying, and if you can't find anything worthwhile at all in my posts (I guess I'm conceited in thinking that there is always something worthwhile in any post by me), then don't read them. But please don't become part of the endless thought police. You joked about teen rebels because their common ground makes them appear as a group and a conformity. Well, the conformity you insist on will smother the entire human race in the end. It's you who shouldn't have children--they won't be able to defend themselves against your zombie philosophy. I'm sorry, that was going for the jugular, but "if you act like a jerk, expect to be treated like one."

To solve the problem of this thing once and for all everyone here from Pete on down needs to let everyone say just what they please and leave it at that. Fight, argue, sure, but only in the context of the basic freedom to speak.

And anyone like Ford who's been banned should be allowed to return. I should have known when Ford was banned and no one stuck up for him besides me what a bunch of Taliban fundamentalists you all were. I'm disgusted. You make me sick.

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Originally posted by SPQR:
Lancie:

Please note...I'm ignoring you.

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Originally posted by Lou Goldberg:
I think the people on the board who complain about me are being way too sensitive.

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And this is for you to judge? I think not. There are two sides to things here, Lou. What you mean and how people take it. Both are perfectly valid.

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I'm not actually bothered by any of the things you and others say to me. I'm simply answering them.

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Same here, actually. Much as you seem to fantasize otherwise, I have lost zero sleep over people like you.

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...what my real target is, is the repressive potential of the people who self-righteously insist that people behave a certain way.

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I'm not nearly as rude as you are. And who is we? You think everyone here is out to get you or what?

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You write that no one is telling me to act one way or another, but you wouldn't even write the post at all if you weren't trying to pressure me in some way.

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Complete and utter bullsh*t. I write the post to express my opinions, same as you. I'd be a fool to think a stubborn ass like you would ever give two thoughts to the opinions of someone else. That would require listening, instead of what you do... which is just waiting for your turn to talk.

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Well, the conformity you insist on will smother the entire human race in the end... I'm disgusted. You make me sick.

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Pobre sita! What a martyr you are! Let's get one thing perfectly clear here, and then you can stop bending my words to support your own bullsh*t agenda... I am not, nor have I ever been, a conformist. This is not about conformity. It is about basic decency. We share this planet with quite a few other people. That word again is share.

And one more thing... very clever of you to try and bounce the children comment back on me. Good boy.

Only problem, Lou, is that I don't have to ask you to not have children... because you won't do it anyway. Not until you grow up a little and stop being so selfish. So I retract my non-procreative comment completely, basking in the knowledge that you won't do it anyways. It would take someone who is interested in people other than himself.

One piece of advice I will be taking is ignoring you. Sounds good to me. Just don't put your bullsh*t in my face. Because then we'll just start this whole thing up again.

What a sad sad person you are.

Lou, this is your sign, man. Either accept the place as it is and start contributing in a way that might get the younger crowd interested in the stuff you like, or leave.

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Originally posted by PeterK:
"I'm disgusted. You make me sick."

Lou, this is your sign, man. Either accept the place as it is and start contributing in a way that might get the younger crowd interested in the stuff you like, or leave.

It's simple.

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Did you think that perhaps - since this board doesn't belong to you - that it's none of your business why anyone is banned?

And why should anyone stick up for Ford? Especially after the way he's (mis)treated millions of people over the years.

The precious freedom of speech you go on and on about is fine for expressing one's opinions in a public, non-moderated forum. But this is not either one. We are here as guests, and all guests deserve the same respect and treatment, or it is the hosts job to remove the offenders.

I'm just not talking about here. I was once accused of being PK's "patsy" (by a certain self-aggrandized "producer"), but I am just stating the facts of this society.

Hypothetical situation here: Say I have lots of money and have a big shindig/hootenany at my place, and invite you all. Heck, I'll even pay your way here.

Now, as my guests, I'm obliged to be a polite and concerned host: concerned for everyone's welfare who's attending. If you, or anyone else, begins to offend people with your actions, attitudes, words, etc., then it is my place as host to do something about it, so that the rest of my guests will not be bothered.

It could be as simple as quietly asking (politely, of course) that said offensive person tone down his comments, etc. Of it could escalate to calling the authorities, and having that personal physically removed (and I've seen that happen. Of course, that person was drunk).

Why? Because I am the host. You are all guests in my house. As it is my house, I make the house rules. It's that way anywhere.

Of course this is all hypothetical, since I'm poor and couldn't afford it.

Kevin

PS. I know, I know. There's no way we can have a polite, sincere society. It's a pipe-dream. And I know, I wasted space with this post.

NP: ( ) - sound falling on deaf ears

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Originally posted by Probable:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:</font><HR size=1>
I accept that you don't happen to appreciate Lou's style, Peter, but do you really want to be telling people how they should post? Just a thought...

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Understood, although my reactionary suggestion arises out of Lou's complaints about what the younger crowd listens to. Lou's in an awesome position to expose his favorite film music on younger ears, if he would take the time. Unfortunately, he's more into exposing himself and what he thinks he is, and all "for fun." A great, great opportunity is being missed here.

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Originally posted by Probable:
I mean, if he doesn't perceive any harm in what he says, then why should you?

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He is a self-professed jerk. Of course he sees no harm in his posts. And no, I'm not crying myself to sleep over him. I think he is just colossally full of sh*t.

Maybe you're okay with the notion of lying down for his garbage. But not me.

I certainly appreciate what you're saying, Probable... there are worse crimes in the world than Lou Goldberg's big dumb mouth. As I had said before, I'll try and leave it alone as long as he doesn't antagonize me personally. But if he does, I'm gonna give it right back to him until either he stops or one of us is banned.

And how does this help?

Come on, please. If you want to do this, do it somewhere else, ok? PLEASE?

Don't be surprised if we find this thread disappearing soon. If it happens, no one has the right to call me "a facist" for taking action. I don't know how many times I've asked for this to stop. The decision has been made by you guys.

I wasn't making any threats, just saying what would happen if Senor Problem-starter ever got me in his sights again.

Lou Goldberg did what you asked him and took these issues to another thread... and now you're gonna delete it? I think you need to stop trying to control this board so much.

People disagree... people fight. It's a part of life... and it's going to keep happening, even if it isn't me and Lou.

"Please, guys, end it."

--- no ending in sight ---

"Please"

--- no ending in sight ---

"Please"

--- no ending in sight ---

The thing I don't like is the veiled threat that I can leave, get banned, or have my voice gagged again by you deleting the post. The people who don't care aren't reading this topic at this point anyway. They haven't even clicked on to it. People choose to read something or not. The evil is when the words are censored before they even have the opportunity--something you just don't seem to ever get. All the people who don't like or agree with me haven't shown up. Those who have shown up still want to debate it, let them. In fact, if you're so sick of this subject coming up Pete, what are you doing here? Go away and leave the topic to itself. We can call each other all the names in the book. So what? You are a facist if you pull this topic. Strange, but BB earns some points for telling you to butt out, even if he thinks my words are moronic in other ways.

I realize this is a private site but in every post I make the same suggestion, that you run it like a public space. I can't force you to, but that's what I want and will lobby for. The fact that you don't is a shameful badge you were everytime I post to you.

As for instructing the young, I'm doing that in my own way. I do say that so & so is great or such and such a score is great or the behavior of some composers seems more honorable that others. I also get fed up say people suck and berate people for their lack of scope, history, and taste. That's instruction too in a way. If people were already clued in I wouldn't have to say anything, I 'd come to this board and everyone would be dissing Horner and Zimmer and talking about the good scores to begin with.

As for Big Bear, you don't frighten me. Get that gun out of your holster. I'll showdown. I could debate your self-righteously rude ass throughout eternity. You can call me selfish until the day you die, it won't change the fact that you're a really a Big Brother rather than a big bear. You don't lose sleep over me. Fine, I feel tired swating flies like you, it's beneath me. Guys like MW Ruger called me everything in the book much better and nastier than you ever could anyway. I agreed with everything he said, he kept using it against me, I agreed some more, he finally exposed himself as one nasty guy. Big Bull, I read every wrong word and insult you wrote about me. I'm not just waiting for my turn to talk. If you had anything convincing or important or worthwhile to say, I might agrre with you. You say that I'm too selfish to love or have children. Just because I'm telling you off doesn't mean I'm not loving to the people I care about. I love children by the way. Your words just convince me even more that people with your Soviet mindset would kill millions in the name of enforcing people to behave "loving" to one another. And you call me sad. Ha.

I could have skipped the last paragraph altogether but I wrote it purposely to piss you off Big Blowhard. I couldn't throw down the challenge. Have a nice sleep.

Speaking of Bears and children. Big Bear is right. I don't like children. I'm too selfish to have them. Whenever I can, I kick them, set my dogs on them, and steal their lunch money. I wait all year for Halloween so I can inject poison into the candy bars I give out.

Actually BB, it's out of love that I don't have children. I know what they would have to face...

Lou's child: Dad, why did you bring me into this hellish world when you knew it was populated with clowns like Big Bear Market, Kommandant K, and Horner and Zimmer fans?

Lou: Sorry Kid, it was your Mom's idea. But don't worry, you'll recognize your natural superiority to these low lifes and learn to have fun toying with them like I do. Now go read your Machiavelli and Nietschze and I'll quiz you after dinner.

Aw, I was expecting a fight