I've been composing on MIDI for a few years now; in fact, I just finished a 7-minute suite inspired by DAREDEVIL, the man without fear. And before you say it, no, I'm not into sharing yet.

Now, I'd like to compose an opening fanfare and suite for perhaps one of the best comic book ever written... you guessed it, Frank Miller's THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. As I was re-reading it last week, I kept hearing Elliot Goldenthal's wonderful Wagnerian music and thought it would be highly appropriate for that story.

And I decided to do a little something on my good old Cakewalk 4.0. The software is so bad... when you reach a certain point, like 6 or 7 minutes into a composition, the last few channels start shutting down. Suddenly, you don't hear your strings, or your percussion.... It's really awful, you have to save it as MIDI and listen to it on a separate program. But I like it....

Anyways, enough rambling, I wanted to come up with a new theme for BATMAN, and this is fairly daunting. I composed what I consider to be a great theme for DAREDEVIL, but that was a bit easier for me. DAREDEVIL is adventurous, bold, air-borne, and well... blind. BATMAN is a legend. You need a theme (especially for THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS) that's heroic, slow, heavy, and very Wagnerian. Goldenthal's theme is so perfect... yet I want to come up with one of my one for my composition.

I wanted to know, since there are a lot of closeted composers among us, if any of you guys had ideas on how to go about that. Any particular scale that would be best suited for a such a theme? A certain structure? I know the instruments I'll use (pipe organ, brass section, tuba, French horns, strings, percussion, piccolo, taiko drums, tubular bells, and synth) but it's the theme that escapes me at the time.

Ideas and suggestions are welcome!

NP - "Big Hat, No Cattle" by Randy Newman. It's supposed to score the big finale. Can't wait.... Actually, I keep remembering Will Sasso's impersonation whenever I see the name "Randy Newman".

I am actaully having my 2nd CD Released tomorrow at a party near where I live. In the midst of recording it last year, I found myself coming up with a track called "Hurricane". I took the idea of "scoring" an event like a hurricane- the calm before the storm with a solo piano, the drizzle and rain picking up with more instruments and tempo with light pizzicato strings, piano and cymbals for the small lightning, then getting bombastic with orchestra hits and heavy strings before suddenly stopping and getting into the eye of the storm. The rest is for the listener's imagination. My point in this is to try to go for the action rather than the essence and if that doesn't work, the essence of the action.

The probelm you're running into is that Batman has had five major themes written for him over the years. Personally, I dig on the Elfman version. Elfman said at the time he was working on it, he wanted to create it like a "gangster war" theme. Really, to score the essence of Batman in the context of The Dark Knight Returns, a fanfare seems out of place. I would suggest thinking out of the box and going something bold, yet creepy. A solo horn playing like it was a melancholy funeral dirge than picking up with strings to make it sound like what you would hear behind a war hero's conviction. Getting more specific would be presumptious to do to you, and I don't think that's right, so I better stop there.

In the meantime- try this as an exercise. Play a score that has absolutely nothing to do with Batman and play it while reading Frank Miller's work. The results after several tries will be something like having Pink Floyd played during the content of The Wizard of Oz. Things eerily come together.
I did this with The Sixth Sense and Bram Stoker's Dracula once. God, that almost would've been better.

Anyway, luck to you Kosh! When you have it done, perhaps someday I'll get to hear it.

Thanks a lot for the advice and congratulations on your CD release!

::performs a one-man standing ovation::

Now back to everybody's favorite caped crusader... 5 themes he's had? I'm forgetting one here. There's the Neal Hefty "Batman nah nah nah nah nah nah Batman", there's Danny Elfman's fanfare, Elliot Goldenthal's march, Shirley Walker's crazy BATMAN BEYOND theme. What else? The original animated series by Danny Elfman? It's kind of the same theme, with a cool new middle part. Maybe that's the one missing.

Anyway, as for the out-of-place fanfare in THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, I dunno. I mean, even though Miller's universe is pretty dark and grim, there's a lot of heroism going around. Since I'm not scoring Gotham City per se, the idea of Batman should still be scored in a bold way. Ok, right, no "fanfare", but certainly a "march". Elfman's theme would be out of place in a comic like this, but Goldenthal's is more than appropriate.

A funeral, huh? Hmm... I agree that the beginning should be darker and somber, to set the stage for the gritty future, but then the theme emerges in quiet heroism. I'm not sure about the funeral idea, but thanks anyway :)

As for your exercice, yeah, I guess I'm trying to much to concentrate on Goldenthal's theme, so much that whatever I start on the keyboard sounds exactly like it. I need to "think outside the box" :) Come up with something fresh and new.

Keep those suggestions coming!

Thank you for your kind remarks. Feel free to e-mail me privately to discuss music further, if you like.

The fifth theme I refer to is Nelson Riddle's main title from the 1966 Batman movie.

A march for Batman? Well, I was thinking of something in the vein of the Detective sensibilities of him and working from there. Then it needs to be epic in scope after that, if we're talking in Dark Knight terms, so perhaps try listening to some John Barry scores and play them while reading the book again.

I did that once with Batman: Digital Justice by Pepe Moreno, awesome book. I played Blade Runner while reading it- captured the moment beautifully.

Would love to email you, but your email isn't listed on MM :)

And, don't shoot me, please!!

I don't have any John Barry scores.

::crouches and awaits the bullet::

......can I get up now?.....

Don't think my score collection consists of three CDs (Titanic, Star Wars, and Braveheart... hehehe), on the contrary. I have 100+ scores. A couple by John Ottman (my favorite composer... now joined by Goldenthal), some Zimmer, some Goldsmith, some Williams, Newton Howard, lots of Star Trek and Star Wars from my early days of collecting, and tons more.

But no Barry.

Anyway, I don't think putting Batman's detective aspect (especially through jazz) would be appropriate for THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. Batman hasn't really been a detective since his early days in "Detective Comics". But, if you want to discuss more, send your email addy my way :)

And all of you, yes you, Jeron, and Bryan, comment!! :)

Hehehe,

Kosh

quote:

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Originally posted by Probable:
I would add a solo cello to your list there.

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Nice, nice... I might do just that. Since I'm not scoring the entire thing (still unsure as to what I'm going to incorporate in that mini-suite), I might not need it, but for those Bruce Wayne contemplative moments, cello's good. I was thinking deep French Horns with strings in the background, but cello's good :)

quote:

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Originally posted by Probable:
For your theme, you want some solid tonal intervals, start with a perfect 4th or 5th, for example, and then you want to move atonally a little, something like a diminished fifth or an augmented second. Play around with that, combining strong 1-4-5 chord patterns with dissonance and key shifts, and I'm sure you'll come up with something. Oh, and your root, at least, should be minor.

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Thanks for the chord tips. I'll keep that in mind. As for the minor root, yup, it's required. The whole atmosphere is pretty dark and sad and tragic.

I have actually come up with a possible theme. Not sure if I'm going to use it... might let it rest for a day, but it's strongly based around B, with some frequent chords in F sharp. It's not as heroic as Goldenthal's (I don't think I could top anything by him anytime soon :), but it's tragic and sad, a bit underplayed. Will probably change some parts, complete the chords. Will see where this leads me.

Thanks for your help, both of you. It's very much appreciated :)

Kosh