Once again, I appreciate your candor. If came across as taking your comments as being above, I duly apologize, and have since rephrased so. I can also see how I may have imposed value judgments upon Big Bear, but I don't believe that I did. I know you didn't say that, but as you said, I've considered it. I certainly need to.

But are others?

I'd like to think we ended our discussion amicably, regardless of whatever opinions we may have of each others tastes, personality, and the like. From here on out, I'm better off discussing less controversial like this.
I run less of a risk having my character scrutinized in a way I wouldn't care for.

You see, I think that, to me, is a statement that looks like it's authoritative, like the rest of us should think that way- and I would disagree that I should, if that is true.

Sorry, Pete.

I think I have already made my peace with your statements- please see all posts/replies to Probable.

Secondly, I think I had every right to be fed up. I don't appreciate you telling me to chill out. In making your final statement, I feel you wish to exclude me from the discussion- if that's true, I don't appreciate that, either. I may have been wrong in how I responded to you, but I think my points were clear and strong and no less necessary to say. It's not a matter of whose problem it is; in essence the problem is greater than just your posts, which were part of a larger thing which is everybody's problem when it affects every member on this board. Unless this isn't community it purports itself to be.

Thirdly, keep in my mind I put no words in your mouth- much of the post was directed at several people- whatever is in quotation does not always necessarily come from your posts.

[Message edited by Widescreen on 06-08-2001]

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Originally posted by Widescreen:
...anyone submit posts calling people "asswipes" and demand total freedom to say crass and tasteless material with the desired result to denounce other people's interests and personality, claiming that their's is the only right opinion (i.e., their way or the highway), then excerise your right to leave...

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Implied words put into my mouth #1. After all, 'asswipe' was my word of choice.

quote:

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Deleting posts as a means of limiting free speech is only fascist to you, Big Bear, because you want an excuse to say what you want, when you want, how you want- but how about the other people who would prefer to have an intelligent discussion? You probably could care less.

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Implied words put into my mouth #2. More than that, you claim to understand what I care about.

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Now you may not have said it, but I'm willing to bet you're thinking it. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

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You should try not saying it in the first place. (Instance #4)

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...and by the statements I see from you and others, it's seems you could care less about the people at this board- all you seem to do is want the right to be profane and lower you intelligence level where everybody can see because you think it's "cute". Funny,what I see is a nihilist who, in his actions, is making the term "film music fan" a derogatory term.

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Are you sure you're not putting words in my mouth here? (Instance #5)

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I'd like to see what is trulyt bothering you about the board and how you think it can actually help.

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This is one of the things I actually DID write about. Did you read it?

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...this platitude of yours justified- and yes, I think you do have to justify yourself to this board, because there are holes in your theory about having things be "freer" in this environment...

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What platitude? What justification? Just where are you getting all of this nonsense?(Instance #6)

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... the fault of the negativity isn't his- it's people like you who either like picking fights or get off on seeing their opinions published before the eyes of a crowd like an overcooked ham.

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A wonderful case of you, Widescreen, doing EXACTLY what you are accusing me of. (Instance #7)

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...when all he gets from you is the demand for "more freedom of speech" when what you mean is "the excusable right to treat eveyone like **** ."

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(Instance #8) Alright, now I'm getting more than a little irritated. Who exactly are you arguing with? You assume SO MUCH about me, and frankly, I have never had a problem with you at all. I never made a plea for "freedom of speech", I just wanted whatever "censoring" that happens around here to be identified as exactly that.

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If this is what you want, I really am truly sorry, but I don't want that around here. I myself will support Peter's efforts to make everyone comfortable here...

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Widescreen claimed not to have put words into my mouth. I am showing him exactly where he did.

Yes

Do they drift off topic a little too quickly?

No

Are there too many off topic postings?

No

Are you visiting these boards more or less now, compared with several months ago, or a year ago?

Less

Are your visits beneficial?

Yes

Do you feel the moderation of the board is a little on the tight side or loose side, as of late?

Neither

Would you like more people to post here, especially those who write reviews online?

Yes

How do you feel about the comaraderie here?

Awesome

Do you consider people here your friends, or do you sometimes find yourself holding back from posting for fear of being bashed?

Some. I never hold back.

Finally, do you like the FishChip guy? Or would you rather elect a new official, or have the title changed? Speak honestly on this subject if you must - I won't get all defensive, don't worry.... there's only so much a FishChip can do before he breaks into pieces!

Yes, I like the FishChip guy. The title is fine with me, although I really don't get it...then again, I'm kinda slow anyways. I want to keep the FishChip guy.

Scott

NP: Saving Private Ryan

Now, I made it clear with my last post as to where my responsible posting should. Probable made me aware of where I may have been wrong. You did defend yourself, as is your right.

And I said, when I'm wrong, I would be the first to admit it- it sees I have not done so publicly to you, as I thought I had with my discussion with Probable. After having some time to cool down, I saw that what I did was align your posts with posts I'd seen of others and saw red. I let that guide my points instead of not entering the conversation. Why I let that happen doesn't matter now. Whether external or internal reasons, none of my reasons exccuse my actions. My intent, which also matters little, for the record, was to attack the problem- but in the process the large mistake was to draw your name into the fray. If I was going to make general statements about the problems that I feel make me feel uncomfortable in posting here, than I should have been respectful to all here and simply avoid fixing the blame. I do owe you an apology. AND I AM TRULY SORRY. However, as I've mentioned before, I don't live my life by other standards. If your estimation of me after this event is a bad one, so be it. So I hope this apology will be met well. I'd like to think this will square things out between us. You didn't need to be slandered, which was not my intent. You said plenty of things I disagree with, but you didn't post a lengthy treatise which blended facts so as to attack me- as for what you said that offended me, I don't think its necessary nor will it accomplish anything to go through all that again now.

Point of fact: I don't need this to be a sunny place- just comfortable. My fault was in the fact that I added to the discomfort and therefore become the one thing I thought I was defending my right to be comfortable against. Now, I've said my piece and taken responsibility for my part in this as much as I can- I can do no more. I can't grandstand and make a public spectacle of this, anymore than I did unnecessarily. I'm well aware that we aren't necessarily friends, but I would certainly like to put an end to the bickering between us. I hope this will do this. It took a lot for me to have own up to this, which I feel I've done twice now, so if all you wish to do is put more energy to responding negatively, I'm sorry- I think I cn safely say without any agreement or response that I've said enough and I'd prefer to turn my enegries to better things.

This post was supposed to be about a townhall meeting about the usefulness of the board. This was a hard-won lesson for me today, and maybe that in itself was useful to me. Whether or not that is relevant to you is not up to me.

If it is any consolation, I am not an unfriendly, deplorable human being- and I do not normally post like this. What I did was inexcusable, and the damage done is irreparable- so I can only post extremely wisely from here on out for my own favor, and I am stongly considering taking another sabattical from the board so I won't make this mistake again. I have no one to blame for my leaving but me, and at the larger scheme of it all this would only be important to me. If I'm not contributing, I'm part of the problem. I choose not to be the problem.

At the very least, you won't have anything to worry about from me. But keep in mind, I didn't like some of your posts- and I have read your other outside this thread, and you may not always post like in this thread, but if I do see somthing like that again, all I can do is avoid those discussions. If it makes me that angry, all it will do is waste my energy in making more of a mess, the way I did here today. But I humbly urge you to continue to take just as much responsibility in your posts, as you did so in earlier in this end of the thread, as you have suggested I do as well. I have no further wish to bear you or anyone else any grief- and, as I said before, I think I've said enough.

I really appreciate the apology... and there is no animosity between us, as far as I am concerned. I understand where you are coming from completely, and believe it or not, we are actually of the same opinions about the nastiness that sometimes occurs on this board.

I've just been a little quicker these days to defend myself at all costs, rather than take the sometimes-less-gratifying (but much more dignified) role of silent objector.

Believe me, I know I've posted some real garbage here. And I intend to cut back on it profusely.

Today's occasional ugliness was tantamount to a whole lot of miscommunication, folks. That's all. And I am sorry for my part in it.