Wallace's Pearl Harbor has one basic problem: don't ever use the events of Pearl Harbor as a backdrop for anything, especially if you have a romance in mind. The script is to take the blame for 90% of this film's failure.

This film couldn't decide which film it wanted to be, however, audiences definitely knew which film they wanted: forget the triangle love affair, let's see a good war film.

People cheered as our two leading pilots played chicken while dogfighting with the Japanese. Sigh. What people wanted to see most was the worst folly of the entire film - there was no dogfighting during the attack on Pearl Harbor. Our butts were kicked into the Pacific, plain and simple.

As for Zimmer (et al)'s score, it was terrific. A beautiful main theme used frequently but never overstaying its welcome. We've been beaten over the head with far more irritating main themes in previous Bruckheimer flicks. Plus, and as mentioned, there are many worse follies in the film to pick on before getting to the score.

The intense, percussive-driven theme for the Japanese Imperials couldn't have been more effective. Sensitive to the possibility that Japanese racism might once again rise out of a film like this, the score has a very important responsibility in defining the tone placed on the Japanese. Zimmer's very bold, ominous percussion is certainly powerful and dark, but not evil. Nicely executed.

As for recommending the film, it's hard to say. I am glad I saw it, but could have done without the romance all together. Bay's direction is average at best (nothing honorable); the look of the film is extraordinary (thumbs up on Schwartzman's cinematography) but entirely used without solid effect; the script is definitely the weakest link here.

but with a few exceptions, I agree. (I think Bay probably better than most folks give credit for....but that's just me.)

there is a "different" kind of romance going on in that film, though...a romance with flying, that bookends the film, and runs throughout. that, in and of itself, is a pretty romantic/poetic subject, particularly in the pre-jet engine era. the way that flying is "handled", as some kind of mysterious rite, that has an beauty, power, and awe of itself...

Thanks for the well-balanced thoughts Peter...its refreshing to have a few voices or reason that can be heard above bickering...of which (unfortunately) I was part of.

Nor do I think that the fact that there've been worse scores to Bruckheimer films is really a selling point. Then again, you stated that the theme never overstays its welcome, whereas I feel that it was overdone to the point that it now aggravates me. Whatever beauty I thought it had at first is now lost on me.

And maybe watch From Here To Eternity again.

I've bought the CD on thusday. I was not really impressed by the score (don't say anything Andre. We all know what you think about Zimmer, so for once, please, don't transform this thread as a bashing thread. It's getting annoying!). So, I decided to wait to hear it in the movie to see if it would sound better. Yes it does. But it still miss something.

The Japanese theme is probably the best part of the score to me. And it's not even on the CD (except a few seconds on the beginning of track 6). Anyway, it's still a good movie, but a good "popcorn" movie. People may not like it, but hey, it's a Bruckeimer production, and directed by Michael Bay. Who was seriously thinking it would be a serious film like Saving Private Ryan? However, a fiction war story would have been a better background for that kind of movie. That's my point of view. :-)

And please, everybody who don't like Bruckeimer, Bay, MV and cie, keep your mouth quiet. If you want to share your opinion, that's great, but if you just want to bash, please go elsewhere. There's so many bashing thread on that board, so we don't need another one. ;-) It's getting annoying at the end. ;-) Thanks for your collaboration guys.

quote:

---

But what matters here? The score. Thumbs up. Even if you don't see the flick, you can be safe buying the soundtrack.

---

This seems like a worthy thread I'd feel happy posting my thoughts in. Right now I'm giving thumbs down to the score and waiting for the movie to open in the UK on Thursday. I like about one or two cues, or simply bits of other cues. The images I had in my mind whilst on track 2 (which to me sounded like a theme to a soap opera) nearly made me puke, maybe I should not have been looking at those lame character images done up for the CD insert.

I'm really surpriseed by what I just said, I'm not one to bash Zimmer, I like his stuff, don't love it, and am still waiting for him to top Thin Red Line. I guess what I would have wanted for this was removal of the piano stuff, more strings, more thematic and moving themes.

I'll see how it plays within the movie next week I guess.

'Brothers' starts nice, despite again making me think of 'Watermark' by Enya, again though it continues to use Piano from the '1:15' mark where I really wish it hadn't. I just keep seeing trashy daytime medial soap opera!

'...and then I kisse him' I like pretty much all round, nice balance to it. 'I will come back' I am pretty much ok with, in fact it's fait to say I like the latter half of the album more.

'Attack' then, one of the biggies I guess, and I like it from the '2:00' point onward. All before that I felt belonged in Gladiator or something. 'December 7th' I like, but then comes 'War' which for me starts promising, then gets a bit too bombastic "remember now, this is a Michael Bay movie!" for me. Not a bad cue mind you, but something more graceful like the battle music heard in Thin Red Line would have been nicer.

'Heart of a Volunteer' I don't mind, in fact it sort of represents the tone I wish the whole score had been.

**1/2 rating out of **** for me.

Dan (again)

I'll ask again, what would any of you have preferred other than what was delivered?

As I stated above, I find the piano stuff to do more harm then good, most of the time wishing it were just left as the backing strings.

Did I want a Thin Red Line 2? No, a score like TRLs would never suit a Michael Bay movie. Like I said before though, I think track 9, most definately my fave cue on the CD, is really the tone (a rather tragic one) I wish the enitre score had taken in light of the film's subject matter. This cue to me is patriotic whilst at the same time being rather moving. I like it a lot.

NP: Judge Dredd (Silvestri) ***/*****

What do you think, Dan?

Steven Spielberg - "1941"
The Coen Bros - "Miller's Crossing"
Joe Johnston - "Jumanji"
Rob Reiner - "The Princess Bride"
Ridley Scott - "Legend"
Robert Zemekis - "Back to the Future"
Richard Donner - "The Toy"
James Cameron - "The Abyss"
Tony Scott - "Revenge"
Kevin Smith - "Dogma"
George Lucas - "The Phantom Menace"

quote:

---

Pearl Harbor main theme = "Paris and Bond" from Tomorrow Never Dies.

---

Kinda. That and Enya's 'Watermark' anyway.

Anyhoo, Peter, in reply to your query, there are a number of composers whose scores I think I would have enjoyed more for this film. These include (but are not limited to)
- Goldsmith
- JNH
- Silvestri
- Williams
- Armstrong
- Dudley
- Arnold
- Newman
Of course, when discussing imaginary scores, it's always hard to say. I also should mention that, had any of these composers actually been affiliated with PH, I would feel bad for them. In my mind, this film and score are just a complete bust, and I'm sorry for having spent money on either of them.

-David Fincher
-Alexander Courage
-Patrick Doyle
-Christopher McQuarrie

Are you saying you'd rather see those people post here than me?

*crushed*

I think they've all got something intelligent and interesting to say, at least. Discussion would be a little extra colorful, probably. In my smart-ass haste, I accidentally left off William Goldman and Janusz Kaminski....

quote:

---

Fourth Feature films:
Steven Spielberg - "1941"
The Coen Bros - "Miller's Crossing"
Joe Johnston - "Jumanji"
Rob Reiner - "The Princess Bride"
Ridley Scott - "Legend"
Robert Zemekis - "Back to the Future"
Richard Donner - "The Toy"
James Cameron - "The Abyss"
Tony Scott - "Revenge"
Kevin Smith - "Dogma"
George Lucas - "The Phantom Menace"

For a director that's only on his 4th movie, you guys sure have a lot of ideas about what does or doesn't belong in a "Michael Bay movie"....I'm just saying this for perspective...some of these other guys went on to direct "Fargo", "Titanic", "Forrest Gump", "Gladiator", "Schindler's List".....

---

with a few exceptions (TPM, Legend), every one of those movies is infinitely better than what Michael Bay has done with Pearl Harbor, as far as story is concerned.

The Coens are YET to make a really bad movie, though Hudsucker Proxy is the closest.

Michael Bay talks a lot but ultimately says little of substance.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but at this point, I think Emmerich and Devlin would have done better....ouch babe!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lancelot:
Fourth Feature films:
<snip>
Steven Spielberg - "1941"

---

quote:

---

Robert Zemekis - "Back to the Future"

---

quote:

---

Richard Donner - "The Toy"

---

Anyways.... I agree with you that the 4th film doesn't define a director. But we can still judge Bay on the work he's done to date, which has ranged from impressive ("Got Milk" commercial) to crap (PEARL HARBOR).

Dan

(Yes, I have a nasty habit of referring to JJH as "et. al.")

Thanks for your opinions....Actually, even referencing the IMDB, as I frequently do, I tried to stick pretty much to "mainstream". (Duel was pretty much a TV movie..) And since none of us (myself included) are nitpickers here....

Hudsucker Proxy was a damn good movie, by me. Fantastic score, too, even if it owes a small debt to Khachaturian (ooh--plagurism! plagurism!) Perhaps that it was co-written by Sam Raimi leaves it a little "off center" in the Coen Bros' record, but it's one of those you've got to watch twice....

Here's a question for everyone who bought this soundtrack and doesn't like it (Probable, Hasta, Dan Dan, etc.):

How many times have you listened to this score after seeing the film? If your answer is more than "1," please tell us WHY.

Let's start with the movie. I pretty much agree with Peter here. Just like to add that I thought the movie was way too long and the romance part a little too predictable. I do like the fact that the Japanese were portarait with a little more digninty and humanity than could have been done. I wouldn't see the movie again and could have watched it on video without thinking " Gheese, would have loved to see it on the big screen".

The score: I am not a big Zimmer fan, although I do like a lot of his percussion, rythim driven parts. Yet I liked this one. It fit the movie and actually gave it a weird connection between the images and the more modern music. I liked the main theme and it really didn't bother me the many times it was deployed. I am a little thrown off with the soprano voice, can't understand the meaning behind that one...but whatever. Actually, I don't think the theme was more or less used than Barry or Horner ususally do...so.

Some jewels of the movie: Is it me or was Cuba Gooding, Jr one of the very best parts of the movie? I just don't know, he seemed to have a precense in the few scenes that he had which made me wish the film was more about his character than the Cain/Abel love connection we were subjected to for two hours. The Japanese portraial. They are human afterall...I always suspected that. Jon Voight's performance...man did he look at times like the real thing. In fact, come to think of it, the smaller performaces were the ones that stuck with me the longest. Hmmm...

Anyways, I'm out.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PeterK:
How many times have you listened to this score after seeing the film? If your answer is more than "1," please tell us WHY.

---

I listened to it TWICE, but heard it three times.

I listened to it on the album as an initial listen; I suffered through it in the film, then I listened to the album to finalize my thoughts which are quite publically available in my CD review.

After the review went up, I filed the CD away, and doubt I will listen to it again, unless for reference.

Dan

quote:

---

Originally posted by PeterK:
How many times have you listened to this score after seeing the film? If your answer is more than "1," please tell us WHY.

---