quote:

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Originally posted by scoreguy15: I don't give a **** who you like as a composer. I like Zimmer, I don't appreciate your smart ass remarks also. Now, this may be just because I am having a bad day or it may be because I defended you before and this is what you do. You do something that upsets me in more than one way. First off, Zimmer is not God. You are not God. So shut up. I know I say ignore whatever people say that's disrespectful. But I wont now. Shaun, ever since day one, if a person liked someone from media ventures, you hated them. I don't want to be your friend. Not in the least. I also hate how you titled this post. Pearl Harbor = Gay. That's faulse. I believe this score is dramatic, not happy. At least since I just listened to it and I don't have a giant smile on my face. I truthfuly don't care what you think, I don't know if to many people do. But I do know this, you need to quit with the Ventures bashing. Just keep your mouth shut. Got that?

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Awww Clay.

And this comes from our esteemed colleague who raised his leg and pissed all over Mission to Mars?

Was anyone this rude to you when you stated your opinions about M2M?

I don't recall anyone ever telling you to keep your mouth shut.

quote:

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Originally posted by scoreguy15:
Zimmer is not God. You are not God. So shut up.

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I love the implication that no one save God should speak. Especially considering that, according to That Book, the man(woman?) upstairs's voice would kill us all where we stand. Sit. Whatever

But enough theology for today, I have to say, Shaun's an ass, yes, but it's all just soufflé, and besides, it's pretty funny.
In addition to which, I love the arguments on these boards once they really get into full swing. People shout at each other, get all riled up, and then do one of two things: say something stupid and funny, which is good, or say something witty and/or insightful, which is also good. As long as no one takes it seriously or holds grudges, it's all in good fun.

Which makes me surprised that people like Clay and André are now taking genuine offense. First of all, Clay, whatever you sat on this morning, get off it quick, it sounds big and possibly sharp. Secondly, André, where the hell is your sense of humour? There is only one acceptable reason for that word to be used here, and that's if it's funny. That wasn't.

So anyway, why doesn't everyone just chill out? This is like a movie barfight - the blows are huge, dramatic, and fundamentally harmless.

quote:

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Originally posted by Quill:
Preconceived notions about anything can be nothing but detrimental.

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Most sensible thing I've read on this thread.

Scott

funny! Your comedic writing skills amuse me...to say the least.

Clay, little over the top there buddy. Shaun was being sarcastic. Little sarcasm goes a long way. Your response was amazing...very intolerant and nasty. Take it easy man and don't aquaint a person's dislikes with his/her character or personality.

First of all, I actually laughed out loud at Andre's response to Quill. I guess I don't know the whole story behind it, but after reading the entire build-up of this thread, everybody wanting to hear what Andre was going to write, it was quite a payoff. But that's just me.

I'll write people's names in ALL CAPS, and address them point by point. Many good points were made in this thread, and I don't want to dodge anything. If I suddenly start writing things like "YOU ARE A PIG F*CK LOSER, SUCK AN ASS AND SWALLOW YOUR MOTHER!", don't take it personal-like.

SHAUN RUTHERFORD
You are a total retard.

JJH
You are a total ass.

SEARCH FEATURE
What's your problem? Why don't you just leave this thread?!? YOU ARE A PIG F*CK LOSER, SUCK AN ASS AND SWALLOW YOUR MOTHER!"

(COLD AS A) WISTITI wrote this:
"Fiachra Trench?"

I'm sorry, I don't speak jive.

WISTITI also wrote this:
"Hmm... isn't this what James Horner did with Enemy at the Gates (score a film alone, with an orchestra of 90 musicians)?"

There's such an obvious answer to that, and I'll type it out now: the credit should have read "music by John Williams, arranged by James Horner's Past Scores".

PROBABLE
.....gets the award for Drunken Man Who Speaketh The Truth.....Of The Year. You have TWO Aqua CDs? Ha-ha!

TIM P/JERON (not the same person)
Atlantis is pretty dang good, especially after listening to Pearl Harbor. "Fireflies" is a neat action cue. Sorta like Dinosaur (yay!) and Vertical Limit (boo!) put together. With animated films, it's always better to see the film before passing judgement (I know, I know, but with Zimmer, attack immediately), but I like it OK so far.

JERON
Tora! Tora! Tora! is right. An awesome score.

HECTOR J. GUZMAN
.....has a frighteningly good point.

SCOREGUY15 put it this way:
"First off, Zimmer is not God. You are not God."

I know THAT. Dude, Alec Baldwin is God. Haven't you seen that movie?

SCOREGUY continued:
"Shaun, ever since day one, if a person liked someone from media ventures, you hated them. I don't want to be your friend. Not in the least. I also hate how you titled this post. Pearl Harbor = Gay."

I don't "hate" them, man. I "don't appreciate their choice of entertainment", but I don't hate them. There are two types of Zimmer fans:

a.) Idiots
b.) Idiots

Clay is one of the two, but it's up to him and/or everyone else to decide which one matches. That was a joke. As was the title of this thread. Some people understand that there was no malice (music by Jerry Goldsmith, starring God) intended by the title of the thread. It's just an eye-grabber. Alternate title of the thread was "Pearl Harbor, Or How I Stopped Thinking And Nearly Became A Zimmer Drone".

SCOREGUY furthered his campaign against me with this:
"But I do know this, you need to quit with the Ventures bashing. Just keep your mouth shut. Got that?"

Clay! Unless I see a Media Ventures Drivel Enforcement Van out in front of my house, as an American, I can continue to bash the Evil Media Ventures team six ways to Sunday. It's not bashing, either. It's a "severe grievance".

SCOREGUY capped it off with this:
"PS>Sorry Danny for defending this ass hole."

I believe the term you are looking for is "space-ranger".

QUILL had a "severe grievance" with me, and said so in this many words:
"I might have given some credit to this topic if it had been posted by someone else...alas I can't lend credence to person of so obvious, predisposed distaste."

Hah! Listen to the score first, man. My "predisposed distaste" started with The Rock, incidentally. Loved the main theme, but the rest of the score is just "Best Of Media Ventures".

JERON
.....hates The Running Man. I like Harold Faltermeyer. I choose to not air my severe grievance with him on this issue, as HE IS A A PIG F*CK LOSER! SUCK AN ASS AND SWALLOW YOUR MOTHER! Eat it, loser!

SEAN made a great point, that I forgot to address in my original carpal tunnel-inducing post. Why DO I continue to buy his CDs, if all I end up doing is bitch and moan?:
It's funny. I was actually going to buy it, but my brother is such a Michael Bay nut that he decided that he wanted to own it more. So, I didn't buy it. I just had to listen to it on the drive home. I thought Gladiator's score was awful, but was effectively awful (when it comes to gladiator movies, I'm an Alex North man). I like The Thin Red Line. It's drone, but like I keep saying, it's effective in and out of the film. Good reading music. I enjoyed the parts of Hannibal that sounded like The Usual Suspects (I particularly enjoyed the piano parts that led into the Ottman-sounding stuff, but there wasn't enough of it). I keep giving Zimmer a chance. I would have no right to bitch and moan if I (or any member of my immediate family) didn't waste money on it in the first place. I'm trying, Justin!

DAN GOLDASSER wrote:
"Has anyone actually thought about how the score (whether you liked it or not) works IN THE FILM?"

Yeah, I'm the fly-off-the-handle sort, Dan. Sometimes, though......seeing the film hurts my opinion of the score. For instance, The Mummy Returns is such an incredible score on disc, but the film itself is so poorly made that it's now hard to separate the unimaginative film's images from the grand and exciting music that initially had let my imagination run wild. That's totally a run-on. Too many damn words!

(YOU CAN CALL HIM) AL
Brings me to another good example of great score that doesn't work (for me) in the film. Other than the MASTERFUL space walk sequence, the score does more to hurt Mission To Mars than anything else this side of the terrible, terrible script and hideously rushed production.

This post is WAY too long, and nobody will ever get through it. So, to celebrate, I will now list the Hans Zimmer scores I like:

Backdraft
Rain Man
Black Rain
The Thin Red Line
As Good As It Gets
themes from Crimson Tide

I will now list some Jerry Goldsmith scores that I think absolutely suck ass.
Rent-A-Cop
rejected Alien Nation (rightly so!)
Angie
Lillies Of The Field (unless I'm missing something, it's "Amen", paired with Goldsmith's harmonica parts from A Patch Of Blue)
Poltergeist II (the 30 minute version)
most of Along Came A Spider
Deep Rising
Leviathan
Alien (where's the theme? I'm kidding)
The Oscar Theme
the GNP album for Insurrection

There are more, of course, but the good FAR outweigh the bad and the ugly.

Stupid bug! You go squish now!

Shaun

NP--some suck ass score by Jerry Goldsmith

I'm not trying to throw more fuel on the fire, here, but some of us contributors, here aren't "in on the joke", y'know?

It's all your problem mate. Not mine.

I don't like Zimzer and, the same way you express your love for his noise, I will continue to express my despise for it.

As for "Quill" usual infantile self-indulgent infantile statement:

quote:

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"was there any way either Shaun or Andre would have given this score a fair chance. Nope...it's pretty obvious...and makes your opinions moot."

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what can I say, except I've give Hanzimmer and his pets all the chance they needed. But those hacks just can't compose anything which at leat doesn't ruin the movie!

Is all a matter of opinion. Some people like to eat crap and even get horny with it (see Lancelot). Others don't.

But, pleae, don't try to force me to think it's ok to eat (or listen to) crap. It may be ok to you. So, go on and be happy. I don't care. But it's your choice, so don't get mad whenever someone complain about the smell of the crap you like.

quote:

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Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford:
I would have no right to bitch and moan if I didn't waste money on it in the first place.

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Another sensible comment....but it can only be a 'waste' after you've heard it.

Rochelle

quote:

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Originally posted by Probable:
Which makes me surprised that people like Clay and André are now taking genuine offense. Secondly, André, where the hell is your sense of humour? There is only one acceptable reason for that word to be used here, and that's if it's funny. That wasn't.

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Who said I was offended?
That is the answer hypocrites people like Quill and similars deserves. Period. As for Clay... well, he is a kid and loves Hanzzimer. What was you expecting??

My sense of humour is quite good, BTW (something only Shaun was able to dig, I presume...)

quote:

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Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford:
I will now list some Jerry Goldsmith scores that I think absolutely suck ass.
Rent-A-Cop

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LOL

Fishchip: would you please officially change my title from 'member' to 'Drunken Man Who Speaketh The Truth?' Please? Avec sucre?

Lancelot: listen, if people don't want to read what Shaun has to say, they can watch for his name and not read his posts. Noone forces them to pay attention to the ass. If we start making everyone apologize everytime they offend anyone else(global statements ahoy!), everyone will spend all of their time apologizing for the way their apologies were written instead of discussing film music. Not only that, it's one step away from censoring what people write, which is very bad. Censorship is controlling how people express themselves, and if you don't know why that's bad, go read Farenheit 451, followed by 1984. As long as noone is forced to read what we say, let us all say whatever we damn well please. Please.

Oh yeah, and I'm not an "e.t al.--", I'm a Drunken Man Who Speaketh The Truth. Get it right. :P

Someone (oh yeah, it was Lancie again) asked why I would waste my wall space on a shrine to uselessness. I consider this to be the same type of queston as asking why a retarded ass would spend money on Zimmer CDs. That, however, has nothing to do with my reply.

Oh right, my reply: it is only by constantly reminding myself of how low we can sink that I can ever hope to do better myself. That, and it's damn funny to see CDs stapled to your wall.

Rochelle: you're quite adept at recognizing sensible statements, and I appreciate that, but it doesn't really contribute much to the discussion. You seem intelligent, and you obviously have opinions. Why not make some statements of your own, rather than only supporting people who happen to say someting you agree with? After our abortive debate over genres some weeks ago, I'd be interested in seeing what you write.

Which brings me to another reason arguing is to be desired: ladies, gentlemen, friends, foes, idiots, nothing is so satisfying or so thought-provoking as having a well-reasoned debate with an informed and intelligent opponent. Try it, you'll like it. If I was Levar Burton, I'd have some kids tell you the same thing, but I'm afraid you'll just have to take my word for it.

quote:

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Originally posted by André Lux:

Justin, I understand you like Hanzimmer. Feel sorry for you, but what can I do?
I've met people who actually love all Steven Segal's movies, while others consider Jean Claude Van Damme a great actor. Believe it or not!

...

It's all your problem mate. Not mine.
Is all a matter of opinion. Some people like to eat crap and even get horny with it (see Lancelot). Others don't.

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I think Andre's sense of humor is still alive and well...

Why don't you define it? Or at least tell us how this is funny:

There are two types of Zimmer fans:

a.) Idiots
b.) Idiots

Clay is one of the two, but it's up to him and/or everyone else to decide which one matches. That was a joke.

It's funny because:
1) We don't have any alternative choice (the implication being that Zimmer fans are inescapably idiots!)
2) You qualify it as a joke. Oh...that rascal Shaun Rutherford. It's a joke, of course! He really doesn't mean it.

If you'll take a moment to see what I'm really arguing about--it's not that "Zimmer rules, man!"....it's the fact that somehow you're attributing idiocy and other undesirable qualities (not merely in this instance) to a group of people that listen to a style of film music. This is...funny?

quote:

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Originally posted by Shaun Rutherford:
I keep giving Zimmer a chance.

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My views are somewhat similar and to continue.... when Zimmer does something I love...then I really love it. But there is a huge body of work that merely sustains my attention or simply bores me.. especially his early material. 'The Thin Red Line' really works for me and the pleasure I get out of it is endless. No view in the world can change how I feel about TTRL (film or score).

I feel the same way about Thomas Newman who I also feel is touch and go. Either its repetitive minimalism or full orchestra. Its not the minimalism I detest - its the repetition on a theme that continues from score to score (Scent of a Woman, American Beauty, Erin Brokovich etc).

At risk of repeating myself, if you don't like his sense of humor or anything else about his posts, simply don't read them. They don't offend anyone who doesn't read them freely and of their own volition.

I, too, have, on occasion, read things here at MM that offended me. I argued fervently in order to defend my views. I would not, however, want people not to sat things that offend me. If they are not entitled to their thoughts, opinions, and senses of humor, why shuld I be entitled to mine? Or you to yours?

quote:

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Originally posted by Probable:
Rochelle: you're quite adept at recognizing sensible statements, and I appreciate that, but it doesn't really contribute much to the discussion. You seem intelligent, and you obviously have opinions. Why not make some statements of your own, rather than only supporting people who happen to say someting you agree with?

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Probable..

I was actually in the middle of writing something which was posted above.

quote:

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Originally stated by Rochelle:
My views are somewhat similar and to continue.... when Zimmer does something I love...then I really love it. But there is a huge body of work that merely sustains my attention or simply bores me.. especially his early material. 'The Thin Red Line' really works for me and the pleasure I get out of it is endless. No view in the world can change how I feel about TTRL (film or score).

I feel the same way about Thomas Newman who I also feel is touch and go. Either its repetitive minimalism or full orchestra. Its not the minimalism I detest - its the repetition on a theme that continues from score to score (Scent of a Woman, American Beauty, Erin Brokovich etc).

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[edited to make sense]

quote:

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Originally posted by Probable:
At risk of repeating myself

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Aren't we all flogging dead horses? As I said, its not the minimalism I detest but the repetition.

On to other things. It could be that Zimmer doesn't work for me at all. If Zimmer did in fact plagiarize/borrow (whatever) from Wagner or Holst for 'Gladiator' then maybe its the classical compositions I cherish. I haven't 'wasted' enough money to judge for myself.

With reference to TTRL - maybe the only reason I like the score so much is because of the film. In my review of it...I talked about the close relationship between image and score. I went on to say that if people reflect on the masterpiece of the score..perhaps they are reflecting upon the masterpiece of the film.

quote:

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Originally posted by Probable:

Rochelle: You seem intelligent, and you obviously have opinions.

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Speaking of minimalism and repitition..."that's the most sensible comment on this thread".

Media Ventures is good for euthanasia.

I kid! come on people, let's have fun!

We'll just call it "ass-inine" humor and leave it at that.

I am not suggesting censorship, though you seem to infer that I am.

Is there anyone out there that takes me seriously, or seems to at least understand what I'm saying, without making it out to be some kind of George Orwell manifesto??? Anyone? Please?

I'm just saying it would be OK if once in a while, we actually respected each others opinions, rather than somehow catagorize them in a degenerate status SIMPLY BECAUSE WE ENJOY A PARTICULAR STYLE OF MUSIC. Where the hell do you read 1984 into all of that? Decency. Civility. Humor is fine--preferred, even. I don't think you need me to draw out for you what's generally unkind and what isn't. People will listen to you if you can entertain them at the same time. But otherwise, it seems like you guys are just picking on the little guy. That's not so cool, is it?

There's no need to "avert my eyes, if I be offended"--we're (for the sake of arguement) mostly adults here--If we can or must say something with a "wink-wink", let's just be sure that we all get the joke, yeah?

And please don't start the "let's clear it with the joke committee first" arguement--I think, with a little effort, you can interpret what I'm saying here.

I'm glad that you take offense to being branded a censor. You are obviously aware (and wary) of the implications of that term.

I just don't think it's necessary to review what we say in terms of how nice it is. I personally would prefer that we all say what is on our minds.

And no, all I meant by calling you 'Lancie' was to demonstrate a lack of animosity. I wanted to make sure you understood that I wasn't attacking you, simply arguing with you.

I hate censorship. I can turn off the t.v. I can even *not* read a (reportedly) offensive book. I thinking making a great stink about something offensive actually draws attention *to* it, rather than *away* from it. Anyway--just so you know where I'm coming from.....

how the hell did this get off the subject of film music??!?

Believe it or not, I actually wasn't even referring to you when I made my post about "Seeing the film before commenting on the score"......

But, having just seen the film, I'll be posting my comments to a new (virgin) thread.

LOL