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      Gimmicky films & filmmaking...your take?

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    Topic:   Gimmicky films & filmmaking...your take?

     Kross
     Oscar® Winner
     

    We all run into films where people proclaim "It was a giant gimmick of a film!" after giving it a below average rating, while others seem to love these films.

    Recently I can think of a few films that were gimmicky(For good or bad). It seems that all films are in some ways gimmicky. So is this criticism valid? A gimmicky film is usually thought as one to some, but not to others, why is this?


    Rope is a gimmicky film, so is Memento, but both films are done so for a reason, or a reason could easily be found to back that "gimmick." I find nothing wrong with a gimmicky film as long as that film is good of course. What are your takes on these types of films such as Memento, Rope, Fight Club, amoung others?

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    posted 05-02-2001 11:40 PM PT (US)     

     Crono/Kyp
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    I thought "Fight Club" was brilliant. Acting wise, we all know Brad Pitt is a good actor and can play a decent part, Edward Norton surprised me, he is fast becoming one of my favorite actors and I can't wait for his new film "The Score"* (with DeNiro)

    The screenplay by first time "into the pool" Jim Uhls was brilliantly written and the dark, film noir look of almost any David Fincher film just fit perfect.

    I think films like "Fight Club" and other movies with a "deep" meaning like "American Beauty" symbolize different things for different people. My parents hated "Beauty" and I loved it, why? I must confess, I have no idea . I think its movies like that that can challenge the human mind and emotion that generates the controversy

    * = “The Score” is directed by Frank Oz. The story is a thief story. See the trailer at http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/the_score/ the music BTW: is composed by Howard Shore.

    --Brian

    [Message edited by Crono/Kyp on 05-02-2001]

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    posted 05-02-2001 11:49 PM PT (US)     

     Dan Brecher
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    I think like you say, a "gimmick" film, if good, is fine, which isn't saying much because any film one thinks of as good is fine. I think if it's playing out an original appraoch that one may deem a gimmick, all the better for it.

    Here in England our film industry thrives off gimmicks. We'll have one film that is considered original then a slew of lame copycats and it pains me to have to endure more bouts of cockney comic violence or junkie club culture movie again and again.

    Bottom line is, if there's talent and originality behind yet, yes a so called "gimmick" is good.

    Dan (UK)

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    posted 05-03-2001 03:51 AM PT (US)     

     Quill
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I have no patience for gimmick films...but after seeing Memento I'm not going to saddle it with that label. Yes, it will draw people because of the continuity "gimmick" but the film has much more to it...and that fact the a story told completely backwards felt perfectly normal, and maintained the mystery aspect is amazing. Its not so much the plot that got me with the movie, it is how it maintained traditional conventions for suspense and mystery that baffled me.

    I hate to disagree with Brian...but I truly found Fight Club to be slipping toward the edge of ludicrous territory...indeed gimmicky. "He's Tyler Durden..." was much too like the realization of "Malcom is dead" is Sixth Sense.

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    posted 05-03-2001 07:34 AM PT (US)     

     Al
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    Thanks for mentioning Rope, Kross. I think that film is great and, to tell you the truth, never really thought of it as gimmicky. But I do agree. Of course, I think a gimmicky film directed by Hitchcock should immediately be raised above all others. For being in a play format and taking place in one apartment, it remains a gripping movie.

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    posted 05-03-2001 08:10 AM PT (US)     

     AaronR1074
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    Call me slow, but just what is a gimmickie film to begin with?

    NP - Lifehouse

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    posted 05-03-2001 08:39 AM PT (US)     

     Reddi
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    Fight Club had a deeply buried, though evident depth on the views of our society. Many people love the movie, and that's awesome. There are also many people who hated it. It is definitely something we've never seen before. The ending is indeed.... wierd, but it was an ending faithful to it's predecessing novel, which is beyond brilliant. I encourage anybody who loved the movie to read it, and those who were completely confused to read it.

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    posted 05-03-2001 10:30 AM PT (US)     

     Kross
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I loved Fight Club and it's social commentary, but the end is too silly and I like it less and less as I see it. I still like the film as a whole though, I just am not a fan of films that rely on the end for kicks like 6th and Fight CLub.

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    posted 05-03-2001 12:04 PM PT (US)     

     joan hue
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    I think it is fairly arbitrary, difficult, and certainly debatable when it
    comes to deciding if a movie has achieved the status of art or if it is
    just pretentious, relying on gimmicks...simple contrivances that
    seem to be avant-garde and imply substance, but in reality are just tricks
    wrapping a rather hollow package. Perhaps this decision is really in the
    eye of the beholder...personal taste. And what may be considered
    “gimmicky” in its time (van Gogh with his brimming over
    brush stokes, anyone?) may later achieve artistic status. V. van Gogh’s
    paintings sell for millions now. Final test? Art withstands the test of time.
    Citizen Kane after all these years is often still the main film in movie courses.

    I want movies to cast new light on the human condition,
    to discover something different about us, or to explore old themes (apathy,
    coming of age, “to be or not to be,” loss of innocence, etc.) from a unique
    and different perspective. And I also at times want fun and pure escapism that
    stretches my imagination. How can a director do these things? Tilt a
    camera, stay in real time, tinted cinematography, use the camera like
    a still photo, use music in an unexpected manner, toss out the predictable
    endings, edit violence into a ballet (Peckinpah), etc.

    Are these gimmicks or unique, visionary art?
    A. Speilberg: Filming Schindler’s List in black and white while coloring
    one little girl in red. Saving Private Ryan. The first 20 minutes where
    the camera acts like it is being hand held by a correspondent for
    realism.
    B. Magnolia. Themes like the sins of the fathers are visited upon their
    sons and extreme regret developed through a series of time and music
    shifts, whirling cameras, and “Kermit” rain.
    C. Traffic. Frightening correlation between current drug wars and the Myth
    of Sisyphus. Each of the three story lines is delineated by a different colored
    camera lens.


    Gimmicks? Art? I don’t know. Who adjudicates what is a gimmick versus
    a new art form? Look at the disagreements on Fight Club, which I really enjoyed
    and my husband absolutely hated. As stated previously, the test of time seems
    to be the final arbiter.


    [Message edited by joan hue on 05-03-2001]

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    posted 05-03-2001 08:40 PM PT (US)     

     Kross
     Oscar® Winner
     

    You have hit the nail on the head and then some.

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    posted 05-03-2001 10:36 PM PT (US)     

     Quill
     Oscar® Winner
     

    While I agree with all of Joan's points...I have to say that (for the most part!) I tend to be wary of films offering social commentary or insight into the human condition. While I can appreciate films such as Traffic for the role they play in bringing a message to some folks who might otherwise not hear it...I prefer to not be preached to.

    I enjoy films that are thought-provoking, (ie Memento) and those intended for pure entertainment. Anything beyond that...I'll take a good book any time.

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    posted 05-04-2001 08:55 AM PT (US)     

     joan hue
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    Thank you, Kross.

    Quill, you raise an interesting issue, and for the most part, I’m in agreement
    with you. I’m not a lover of extremely bombastic films that preach and hammer
    their versions of the “right” answers. Give the audience some credit for brains.

    However, I am a proponent of social awareness and some commentary. I’d
    rather “know” or at least be made aware of certain issues (even if a tad
    bit of preaching accompanies the film) than be kept in the dark. Awareness
    is at least the first step in taking appropriate action. For instance, I’m rather
    glad The China Syndrome was made as I live very close to the Hanford Nuclear
    Reservation. Our community asked Hanford scientists some tough questions after
    that movie. (Of course they basically said it could “never” happen, it was just
    Jane Fonda’s liberal agenda, etc. Hmmm, we still asked the questions
    and pushed for more quality controls.) The Snake Pit may have sped up better
    treatment for the mentally ill. Nothing wrong with Fail Safe and The Day After.
    A wise citizenry within a democratic society should question decisions that
    may affect their very existence. No Blade of Grass and Soylent Green
    may have been preachy, but maybe they lead to more environmental quality
    controls. And I appreciate various perspectives of history. Certainly The
    Green Berets and Platoon presented diverse points of view towards the
    Viet Nam war. Movies that have tackled “un-talked-about” issues such
    as incest, child abuse, and spousal abuse may help victims or prevent
    future abuses.

    Those are rather extreme examples. Again, I prefer subtlety to preachiness as
    I think you do, but I still do not want, “the unexamined life.”

    Yeah, Quill, I too prefer a good book over any other medium.

    NP Western Themes of Dimitri Tiomkin


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    posted 05-04-2001 01:34 PM PT (US)     

     Kross
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I believe Aronofsky(Director of Pi and the adpated film from Selby's amazing book Requiem for a Dream) in what he said...that some films would be better off as books and some books would be better off as films.

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    posted 05-04-2001 05:21 PM PT (US)     
     

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