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      The Omen vs. Damien vs. The Final Conflict........???

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    Topic:   The Omen vs. Damien vs. The Final Conflict........???

     meegle
     Oscar® Winner
     

    So I watched all three Omen films the other night. The only one I remembered was the third one, Final Conflict. I even have the score to it.
    I was looking forward to watching the first two films thinking the scores would be great because they're all Goldsmith.
    Well, subsequently I didnt like them any more than The Final Conflict.
    Omen III's score, to me, is beautiful and very reminiscent of Star Trek: The Motion Picture. And then it hit me......THAT'S why I dig this score so much. Jerry scored this movie soon after the first Star Trek film so, arguably, there was bound to be SOME "bleed over".

    Anyone know what Goldsmith scored RIGHT AFTER Star Trek?

    Anyway...

    The Omen is a classic film. I think I remember that the score won awards.... I think. Donner's camera shots are interesting to me. For instance, there's a close-up of the priests face when Peck finally agrees to meet with him. It just seemed odd that we were so close in on his face at that point in time.
    I just saw this film the other night and I honestly can't remember most of the score....except for the annoying Ave Satani.

    Damien: Omen II...
    What a seemingly rush-job. A badly thought out film. Horrible script that makes the well-establshed actors wade through it like bog. There was an excellant opportunity here to explore Damien's feelings about what he is.......but we never get more than him saying "Why me???" at a sunset.
    The doctor that gets killed in the elevator scene is WAY over the top. And the first half of the film is littered with this damn crow....and then suddenly its gone. The crow took the place of the first film's dog I guess but at least the dog was used throughout.
    I liked this score better than the first film. It used more creepy sounds than music and got the idea across. (Is this score out there?)

    Omen III: The Final Conflict...
    I love this film. You really dont have to have seen the first two to enjoy it, as I will attest. Sam Neill is fantastic as the AntiChrist.
    Goldsmith's score really helps it along though. It is tons more "glorious" in its approach. The track "Second Coming" is my favorite. Ill never get tired of this score.


    Oh and for the completist Omen fans out there...

    Omen IV: The Awakening...
    I saw the first five-minutes of this and turned it off.

    [Message edited by meegle on 04-29-2001]

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    posted 04-29-2001 09:26 AM PT (US)     

     Scott
     Click Here to Email Scott
     Oscar® Winner
     

    Well, meegle,

    believe it or not, I still have to see either movie to its fullest. But I do have all three scores plus an additional one from the Omen that was ripped from the dvd (curtesy from a very good friend).

    Talking about the scores, the first two are fairly similar. Orchestrations seem to be a little different and the second one boasts more of the scary musical parts than the first one which really intersects a lot of slow-love theme-based scenes.

    The third score is vastly different, clearly composed in a more avagante style and while in certain parts still connecting itself to the series, clearly goes into another direction. Not so much atonal stuff here, comoposed more in the Russian and romantic style.

    Which one is my fave? Good question. I love the annoying Ava Santi btw. The first score won an Oscar (Goldsmith only one-what a travesty), and it has some powerful moments that however are repeated in the second one, for which Jerry wrote additional cues just for the soundtrack, which itself isn't much over 30 minutes. The quality here is better, and some of the orchestrations seem a bit more powerful. I think if you want to get a good representation, get the first one. If you don't like the mushy stuff, get the second one (if you can, getting rare out there). Whether you get the first or second one...or both...you have to get the third one regardless, because it is so vastly different. My fave? Dang it. Hard to decide. I would say , of the two I would have to pick the first one because it does have the mushy stuff. The third one is a different league all together, related but not so much...more of a third distant cousing kinda thing.

    Anywyas, I'm out.


    Scott

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    posted 04-29-2001 10:52 AM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
     Oscar® Winner
     

    I wish I had an old Goldsmith interview from 1981 in front of me ... he gave it to SOUNDTRACK! magazine and explained precisely what his schedule had recently been. I'm not sure of the order, but in 1980 he scored INCHON, CABOBLANCO, THE FINAL CONFLICT and MASADA -- only CABOBLANCO came out in 1980, MASADA and CONFLICT in 1981, and INCHON was pushed to late 1982 because of all the recutting. I agree that one hears a lot of STAR TREK in THE FINAL CONFLICT, but the Klingon percussion from STAR TREK is also echoed in INCHON. At that time he thought he was going to do CONGO for Michael Crichton (finally did it for Frank Marshall fifteen years later instead), and YES GIORGIO for Franklin Schaffner (fell through due to scheduling difficulties). I think he knew OUTLAND was upcoming, and NIGHT CROSSING as well (which then was called ESCAPE TO THE WEST, and he was very excited about it -- "terrific script!" he said.) I remember NIGHT CROSSING as being his first release in 1982 (and SOUNDTRACK! was there for the scoring sessions as well). POLTERGEIST, NIMH etc., later in 1982, were as not yet a glimmer in anyone's eye ... (well, NIMH was obviously in production by then, but no composer had been picked.)

    Oh yes, the interview took place after THE FINAL CONFLICT had been finished, and he said he definitely favored it over the previous two. I think of them as all of a piece myself, although the tone of THE FINAL CONFLICT is necessarily considerably different from the first pair.

    I got the OMEN DVD box set from Half.com; the first three include commentaries of wildly varying interest. First one includes a separate interview with Goldsmith looking over some of his favorite moments; and GREAT running commentary by Richard Donner and Stuart Baird, who fall all over themselves both praising and teasing Goldsmith ("nice Stravinsky there, Jerry," Baird says, or variations thereof, more than once -- but also observes that he hired Goldsmith for his own two films as director, EXECUTIVE DECISION and U.S. MARSHALS.) They also mention that the budget was so tight on the first OMEN that they couldn't even AFFORD Goldsmith, but studio chief Alan Ladd (who would also greenlight STAR WARS and ALIEN at Fox) agreed to kick in the necessary bucks ... a mere $25,000 at the time!

    DAMIEN OMEN II's commentary, by the verbally challenged producer Harvey Bernhard, is informative in kind of a backwards way. One reason for the neurotic feel of OMEN II is that its original director and writer, Mike Hodges, was fired -- and Bernhard indicates that Hodges shot a great deal more of the picture than I'd previously realized (basically all the stuff Bernhard doesn't like, crowded mainly into the first half hour.) Hodges is a very fine filmmaker when he's on his game, and since I believe he suffered a nervous breakdown during or immediately after the OMEN II experience, perhaps just too many things were going on in his life at one time. He rebounded immediately by making FLASH GORDON however (whatever you think of it, I believe it's competent), and years later returned, he said, to concerns he wanted to explore in OMEN II with an original script he directed, the award-winning BLACK RAINBOW, which I personally think is a sadly neglected masterpiece.

    THE FINAL CONFLICT DVD has terse, none-too-interesting commentary by director Graham Baker, who does go out of his way to mention how much he liked working with Goldsmith, and he singled out "The Hunt" in particular.

    No commentary on OMEN IV, but I was kind of hoping for the MST3K guys to chime in, it's THAT awful

    Goldsmith of course won the Oscar for THE OMEN, and an additional nomination for Best Song, "Ave Satani." I'm still dying to see a tape of that being performed live on the Academy Awards show, crooned by someone named "Tony Vivante" ... I'm not sure what other awards or nominations THE OMEN picked up anyplace else. I have the feeling it was rather dismissed at the time, though of course it was a huge commercial success.

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    posted 04-29-2001 11:00 AM PT (US)     

     scored for life
     Click Here to Email scored for life
     Oscar® Winner
     

    THE OMEN only took the Oscar in 1976. The Golden Globe went to the score for A STAR IS BORN and the LA Film Critics award went to TAXI DRIVER. Unfortunately, not a lot of awards for movie music out there although OMEN was nominated for a Grammy-lost to CAR WASH, of all scores.

    But I agree with everyone else, the first is the best, but you just gotta have all of them right? wouldn't be complete without #2-look for it on ebay-that's where i got it!

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    posted 04-29-2001 12:52 PM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    I think that The Omen is one of the greatest film scores of all time. There's only one odd marriage of music and image in the film, and that's when they go to the zoo and you see this giraffe chewing whatever giraffes chew, underscored by Goldsmith's satanic music. I know that it was meant to express young Damien's reactions, but I thought the effect was a bit unintentionally funny. Absolutely brilliant on LP/CD though.

    Damien: Omen 2 is bouncier as a score. I remember some good jolly sledge music for a scene in the snow which wasn't on the LP/CD. An enjoyable film too, but no more than that.

    The Final Conflict was a terrible movie, in my humble opinion. The score, however, as you folks have pointed out, was wondrous, and a complete departure from the other two.

    And Ave Santani annoying? Mmmm. Why?

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    posted 04-29-2001 01:18 PM PT (US)     

     John C Winfrey
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    I will keep the scores and films separate:

    Films The Omen-most interesting to me, mainly because it was first I guess. All of the people around the country were commenting on the prophecy and beast(666) stuff but all the scriptures in the film are mostly wrong. Looking back, the film was so-so although we thought it was pretty good at the time.

    Damien Omen II-poor, senseless film in my view. As you pointed out seemed rushed and had gross violence to the extreme, more so than first to me. Dumb.

    Final Conflict-Neill was good in it, but film is awful. Extremely blasphemous and gross violence once again. Nowhere near as good as the first film to me. Of the three I would rate Omen B+, Final Conflict D------ and Damien Omen F+. These last two I would not watch again. Omen, I might.

    Scores-I like all three. Omen has some great action and choral music in it and I like all the main themes. Damien II expands on some of those themes in a good way, and the short evil action clips for some of the gross scenes are super. I can't watch some of the scenes, but I love the music. Final Conflict is a great score. In my top ten Goldsmiths, I would rate it the best score of the three, with Omen next and Damien II last. Final Conflict would get an A-/A, Omen A-, Damien II-B/B+. I really like all three scores. Of all of them I don't like the main and end titles of Damien II very much, but most of rest of score is good. Fallen Temple rehash cue from first score is excellent and the Runaway train cue is excellent. Broken Ice is a great cue too. All the other music brings it up to a B+. Best, John.

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    posted 04-29-2001 02:23 PM PT (US)     

     BMikeJ
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     Oscar® Winner
     

    I enjoy Jerry's work on all three Omen films. They all boast some truly terrifying moments. I do feel that there's a point in the second Omen score where Jerry just shifted into auto-pilot and stopped trying to save the movie with his score. If I had to pick a favorite, I'd have to go with The Final Conflict. I wish Jerry would do more trilogies. His scores seem to get more ambitious as the sequel numbers add up. This is certainly the case with the Rambo movies and definitely with the Omen pictures. Final Conflict has some of his Jerry's finest moments, including that fox hunt cue, and also, the Second Coming of Christ cue, which goes on my short list of perfect Jerry moments. All Goldsmith fans should own these scores.

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    posted 04-30-2001 01:10 AM PT (US)     
     

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