-
Message Boards

Movie Soundtracks
PROOF OF LIFE: Another Racist Thriller (Page 1)
Archive of old forum. No more postings.
Please visit our new forum, The MovieMusic Lobby, to post new topics.
This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2Author
Topic: PROOF OF LIFE: Another Racist Thriller

André Lux

Oscar® Winner

quote:
RACIST THRILLER
By Kleber Mendonça FilhoThe cinema can be a window to other cultures. If Iranian movies suggests how life in Iran is, a movie like PROOF OF LIFE, by Taylor Hackford, serve as a window to the way north-americans faces the world. In this case, particulary the South America, painted as a savage land crowded by ignorant and violent browned people. For those who don't get simple annoyed with the movie's politics, two options remains: A) try to find some fun on the USA own limitaded vision of a "globalized" world; B) try to find some entertaining value on an expensive but mediocre thriller about kidnaping.
At the beginning a card inform us that the action is settled in the "South America", data which transforms all the subcontinent into the same country, with the same culture and where the capital could be Buenos Aires. Not so, since the action takes place on an imaginary country named Tecala, althought Pina Colada could have been better. Tecala was shoot on Equador. What a shame.
On this green and moist place, the civil north-american engineer Peter Bowman (the good supporting actor David Morse), filled with good will for the ignorant people of that little nation, try to build a better Tecala. Nevertheless, he is kidnaped by some guerrilla who demands an astounding amount of money from the enterprise Bowman works for.
Enters an specialist on international negotiations, the australian Terry Thorne (Russel Crowe), based in London and whose territory is the whole word, from the oppening sequence on the East of Europe to Asia, including Brazil (according to a picture on his office).
...
We follow then a well mounted thriller, but shallow on its emotions. [...] We see Alice (Meg Ryan) and Terry working at the capital and Bowman eating the Latin Devil's bread while is kept by a gang of drug addicted crude young "cucarachas" (cockroaches). No one with a browned skin and spanish accent deserves to be trusted according to PROOF OF LIFE, and the audience thanks God when the anglo-saxon's character return to the screen.
It's curious how the explosive conclusion (from the MISSING IN ACTION / RAMBO II school) also translates the will always north-american to police smaller countries and cry "Busted!", interfering with shotguns and state of the art technology into foreign realities, always with the intention to protect its own interests.
Obiviously another movie to be avoided.

[Message edited by André Lux on 04-07-2001]
posted 04-07-2001 10:48 PM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

Is "globalizated" even a word?nice, fair, unbiased review there.
posted 04-07-2001 11:07 PM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by JJH:
Is "globalizated" even a word?Don't know. What's the right word for that?
posted 04-07-2001 11:14 PM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

quote:
A) try to find some fun on the USA own limitaded vision of a "globalizated" world;
he was trying to say:quote:
try to make fun of the USA's own limited vision of a "globalized" world.posted 04-07-2001 11:29 PM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

My mistake mate. I was just trying to translate to english what the guy wrote in portuguese.Thanks!
posted 04-07-2001 11:34 PM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

I thought that was the guy's original words already in English. oops.posted 04-07-2001 11:38 PM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

Sorry for my poor translation...
I tried to do my best.
posted 04-07-2001 11:43 PM PT (US) 
Probable

Oscar® Winner

It was legible and comprehensible. I know native English speakers who can't say as much about their writing.
posted 04-08-2001 12:03 AM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

Yep... and some of them reside right here on this message board. Cool, huh?
posted 04-08-2001 12:10 AM PT (US) 
cine-sin

Oscar® Winner

Hi Andre...Do you think the 'ethnic/native enemy', that for so long plagued Hollywood, has been reduced over the past decade as evidenced by 'Dances With Wolves' (1990) and 'Snow Falling on Cedars' (1999)?...to name a few off the top of my head.
I think 'Red Corner', to some extent, overcame this by bringing the Chinese lawyer/love interest into the schema...and as such...critiques corrupt officials rather than race as a whole. But then you have issues of exoticization to contend with...
Perhaps the reduction of the 'ethnic enemy' may have given some convenient or FURTHER rise to the natural disaster film (ie 'nature as conflict': Volcano, Twister, Perfect Storm, Deep Impact) or science fiction(aliens as enemy). Even technology has become an enemy of sorts (cloning/matrix etc).
Regards,
Rochelleposted 04-08-2001 12:59 AM PT (US) 
cine-sin

Oscar® Winner

Hi Andre...Do you think the 'ethnic/native enemy', that for so long plagued Hollywood, has been reduced over the past decade as evidenced by 'Dances With Wolves' (1990) and 'Snow Falling on Cedars' (1999)?...to name a few off the top of my head.
I think 'Red Corner', to some extent, overcame this by bringing the Chinese lawyer/love interest into the schema...and as such...critiques corrupt officials rather than race as a whole. But then you have issues of exoticization to contend with...
Perhaps the reduction of the 'ethnic enemy' may have given some convenient or FURTHER rise to the natural disaster film (ie 'nature as conflict': Volcano, Twister, Perfect Storm, Deep Impact) or science fiction(aliens as enemy). Even technology has become an enemy of sorts (cloning/matrix etc).
Regards,
Rochelleposted 04-08-2001 01:39 AM PT (US) 
Drixorial
Oscar® Winner

Well with that said, It DID have a superb score by Danny Elfman
NP: Man in the Iron Mask - Nick Glennie-Smithposted 04-08-2001 03:46 AM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by cine-sin:
Perhaps the reduction of the 'ethnic enemy' may have given some convenient or FURTHER rise to the natural disaster film (ie 'nature as conflict': Volcano, Twister, Perfect Storm, Deep Impact) or science fiction(aliens as enemy). Even technology has become an enemy of sorts (cloning/matrix etc).Then again, there are films like Armageddon that insult Russians and ecologists "on the way", while the "real" enemy is an asteroid (the asteroid is at least not depicted as utterly stupid).
posted 04-08-2001 04:56 AM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by cine-sin:
Hi Andre...Do you think the 'ethnic/native enemy', that for so long plagued Hollywood, has been reduced over the past decade as evidenced by 'Dances With Wolves' (1990) and 'Snow Falling on Cedars' (1999)?...to name a few off the top of my head.
I think 'Red Corner', to some extent, overcame this by bringing the Chinese lawyer/love interest into the schema...and as such...critiques corrupt officials rather than race as a whole. But then you have issues of exoticization to contend with...
Perhaps the reduction of the 'ethnic enemy' may have given some convenient or FURTHER rise to the natural disaster film (ie 'nature as conflict': Volcano, Twister, Perfect Storm, Deep Impact) or science fiction(aliens as enemy). Even technology has become an enemy of sorts (cloning/matrix etc).
I think, Rochelle, that some people in the north-american movie industry are truly trying to change this misguided (by fear, hate, ignorance and prejudice) view of the world, but the rest is just following the 1990's tendency of the ludicrous "politically correct" path.
This will obviously change now that a fascist pig like Bush is back to that place. Stallone, Seagal, Norris, etc all, now will be able to raise their carrers back to light...
Run for cover!!

posted 04-08-2001 07:01 AM PT (US) 
TimT

Oscar® Winner

Well I André that note does introduce some points to think about. There may be some kinda of conspieracy, or there may not be.
I guess it just depends on how nieve the person watching the movie is.
I for one did not walk out of the theatre thinking, that I should be careful of those "browned-skined" people of South America. In fact the thought never even crossed my mind that no natives in the movie was to be trusted.
I've noticed American movies don't even portray Americans correctly either. I mean every young Black man they cast always has to be some ghetto thug type person who listens to nothing but rap music, then foriegners see that and think its real all over the US. When you watch Nutty Proffessor, please do not assume thats a normal family! And mostly all the Asian guys are either in some Asian mafia, or Kung-Fu masters or even worse both! But I never met one that was any of those.And just to keep this film music related, because we are WAY off topic. Do you think that Danny Elfman's score was implying such conpiracies as mentioned in your first post in Proof of Life?
Aa'chu![Message edited by TimT on 04-08-2001]
posted 04-08-2001 08:29 AM PT (US) 
Quill
Oscar® Winner

It fascinates me how movies have evolved over the years...at least in peoples' minds. When did movies become a distinguished commentary on the state of the world? Does anyone honestly expect to go into a movie and see a realistic depiction of South America, the US, or anything for that matter.Are there racist stereotypes in movies? Yes. Should movies offer an accurate depiction of their topic? Yes, as long as in turn the entertainment value is not compromised. I don't pay $9 to watch a 2-hour public access show. If I want reality and to truly learn about a subject I'll read a book.
PS: Great job on the translation Andre...you put many Americans to shame...including that "fascist pig."

posted 04-08-2001 08:47 AM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

Benito Mussolini was a fascist.George W Bush is just a Republican.
"We hate evil America!
but we want to steal their technology and have trade or life sucks!"
hmmm....posted 04-08-2001 11:36 AM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by JJH:
"We hate evil America!
but we want to steal their technology and have trade or life sucks!"hmmm....
Sorry JJ my friend. I've been on States four times now. And belive me, althought I think USA is quite a beautiful country, I would never envy you people.
And technology is great, but does it makes the world a better place to live? Of course not.And frankly, I can respect Mussolini much more than this Bush. At leat the first was clear about his political agenda...
quote:
Originally posted by TimT:
I for one did not walk out of the theatre thinking, that I should be careful of those "browned-skined" people of South America. In fact the thought never even crossed my mind that no natives in the movie was to be trusted.I am not so sure about that Tim. Remember the other day when we were chating over moviemusic chat, and you said how you were scared of visiting Brazil because "most people there are into Voodoo"? Now, tell me, from where did you learn that? A history book or a movie like THE RELIC?
But, of course, this a problem your nation faces since its beginning. Who am I to change it ?
[Message edited by André Lux on 04-08-2001]
posted 04-08-2001 12:50 PM PT (US) 
Probable

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Quill:
It fascinates me how movies have evolved over the years...at least in peoples' minds. When did movies become a distinguished commentary on the state of the world? Does anyone honestly expect to go into a movie and see a realistic depiction of South America, the US, or anything for that matter.Are there racist stereotypes in movies? Yes. Should movies offer an accurate depiction of their topic? Yes, as long as in turn the entertainment value is not compromised. I don't pay $9 to watch a 2-hour public access show. If I want reality and to truly learn about a subject I'll read a book.
Quill, when did 'entertainment' become a valid excuse for bigotry? "As long as the entertainment value is not compromised?" Do you realize wht you imply when you endorse universal justification based on entertainment value?
"Lookit them brownies fight!"
"Ain't that mean to the brownies?"
"Well, yeah, but it's funny, ain't it?"
"True 'nuff!"I can't believe you actually intend to convince people that sterotyping and prejudice in the popular media is fine as long as it holds our attention. Maybe you should watch some more of those public-access shows you so casually deride.
Even if you can't see what this inflicts on the people who are negatively portrayed, consider americans. Many, many people go to the movies in the US, many more than travel to other countries, even once. If the only image of other cultures and peoples that americans get is horrid and demeaning stereotypes, what does that do to their world view? Can you honestly tell me that most US moviegoers are objective enough and educated enough to know when to dismiss all of the generalizations and falsifications that Hollywood (among others) feeds them?
posted 04-08-2001 01:12 PM PT (US) 
Probable

Oscar® Winner

As for you, JJ...quote:
Originally posted by JJH:
"We hate evil America!
but we want to steal their technology and have trade or life sucks!"I'm not saying you're wrong, I just have a question: If circumstances force you to become economically dependant on someone whose actions and ethics you don't agree with, does that mean you have to like them?
posted 04-08-2001 01:15 PM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

Kudos to Probable, for such brilliant and well informed remarks!What a great surprise.
posted 04-08-2001 01:26 PM PT (US) 
TimT

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by André Lux:
I am not so sure about that Tim. Remember the other day when we were chating over moviemusic chat, and you said how you were scared of visiting Brazil because "most people there are into Voodoo"? Now, tell me, from where did you learn that? A history book or a movie like THE RELIC?I thought I explained that I wasn't talking about every single person in Brazil? Sorry if I came arcoss like that. And I learned that from people I know who've lived there, and I'm sure they didn't mean everyone there either, probably just people that they knew in there area at the time. If I told you I was sacred to go there becaue of that then....I was just being sarcastic I guess.
Highlander: Final Dimention (J. Peter Robinson)
posted 04-08-2001 01:31 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

Marian said:
quote:
Then again, there are films like Armageddon that insult Russians and ecologists "on the way", while the "real" enemy is an asteroid (the asteroid is at least not depicted as utterly stupid).The point of arguing this is pretty futile with someone deadset against bashing Bruckheimer efforts at any opportunity, however, while the Russian may have been added for a comic element, at no point was it ever insulting....Ecologists insulted? Physicists? Astronomers? People at NASA, even, while you're making a list. And don't forget the French, the Chinese, and Godzilla.
I seriously doubt the intent of the film "Armageddon" was intended as giant "screw you" insult to the public...
Likewise, I doubt the intentions of the filmmakers behind "Proof of Life" intended some kind of racist Hollywood propaganda. It *was* based on actual events.
(I'll restrain from addressing the "fascist pig" comment, which was as blatantly ignorant as it was inflammatory.)
posted 04-08-2001 02:35 PM PT (US) 
Probable

Oscar® Winner

As much fun as these little debates are (and I know I help perpetuate them), I'm not sure this is the proper venue, folks. Mayhap we should head this thread off before it gets too hostile?So, um...how about that movie music stuff?
posted 04-08-2001 03:08 PM PT (US) 
Marian Schedenig

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Lancelot:
The point of arguing this is pretty futile with someone deadset against bashing Bruckheimer efforts at any opportunity, however, while the Russian may have been added for a comic element, at no point was it ever insulting....Ecologists insulted? Physicists? Astronomers? People at NASA, even, while you're making a list. And don't forget the French, the Chinese, and Godzilla.But this is the original reason WHY I'm bashing Bruckheimer films so constantly. I found the "comic" Russian indeed funny in places, but the overall "feel" of the way the character was used seemed really offensive to me.
There are lots of films that have "bad heroes" as the main characters, and many of them are great (Pulp Fiction, for example). Yet, in Armageddon, the Bruce Willis character is shown as a horrible person right from the beginning, only that this time, everything that makes him offensive is what we're supposed to like about him.
I'll stop rambling now.

posted 04-08-2001 05:17 PM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

I agree with Probable.
Specially now that the thread had gone down to the "naive and intolerant's toilet", thanks to the appearence of this always snob and misinformed fascist-pigs supporter lad who calls himself Lancelot.What a shame!
To TimT:
The simple fact that you actually believe what you friends who supposedly lived in Brazil can only mean two things: 1) you obviously don't know anything about Brazil (Voodoo?? Oh yeah, right... I wish I have a Voodoo doll of Hanzimmer just beside me now!
) and 2) you don't even care to learn. Sarcastic my ass!That's why they keep doing movies like PROOF OF LIFE.
posted 04-08-2001 05:23 PM PT (US) 
Kross
Oscar® Winner

PROOF OF LIFE was one of the worst films I have ever seen. Enough said.
posted 04-08-2001 06:23 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

Andre...poor, poor demented Andre...I pity you, I truly do. It's Palm Sunday. I really don't want to say anything wrathful or hurtful, or anything with any malice in it at all. I think everyone here knows and understands what a soft-headed individual you are, and tolerate you, the way one might tolerate a one-eyed puppy that only runs around in circles. At any rate, I seriously think you should really understand what fascism is before you make any attempt at trying to lable me a fascist pig, poor depraved Mr. Lux. Best wishes, sir.
posted 04-08-2001 07:22 PM PT (US) 
scoreguy15
unregistered
I've never seen Proof Of Life. But the same thing happened with the film, The Seige. I didn't find that movie racist. What makes this racist?Clay G.
posted 04-08-2001 07:59 PM PT (US) 
Mark Olivarez

Oscar® Winner

I don't know Clay, some people just take things way too serious.
posted 04-08-2001 08:12 PM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

Well Mark, maybe when a member of your family get arrested, tortured, killed and buried in a trash deposite just because he see things differently from what Washington thinks is right you start to take this kind of subject more serious too.Just a tought.
And Lancelot (does it have a name?): you are right. I am depraved. But it's still better than being a repressed narrow minded virgin.

posted 04-08-2001 11:03 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

Wrong on all three counts, thanks for playing.*I'm* repressed? Who brings sexual activity into the discussion every time when faced with adversity? Is that your only defense against a conflicting opinion? Another cause for pity.
posted 04-09-2001 07:11 AM PT (US) 
Quill
Oscar® Winner

Andre...why do you insist on continually crossing that invisible line and resort to insulting people. I know you don't like Lancelot, but come one...Probable...your points are well taken, but perhaps I did not make myself clear. For one , I was not deriding public access, history channel programs, etc...I find them invigorating and a great source of valuable knowledge, but I hold them as a different type of media.
Stereotyping exists is the majority of peoples' minds in the world, not simply the US (even Andre stereotypes Americans) How can we expect Hollywood not do the same? Unfortunately, there are people who will believe what they see in films, but I sometimes feel the number of people who do is exaggerated. I didn't see Proof of Life because it looked like a weak film, not for any racial profiling that may have been involved. I undestand that there are people who hold Hollywood (and/or America) responsible for inherent images they depict...and I am certain they have their own reasons for doing so.
For me, movies are a frivolous novelty that I happen to enjoy...they do not influence the way I view the world or understand myself.
posted 04-09-2001 08:40 AM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Lancelot:
*I'm* repressed? Who brings sexual activity into the discussion every time when faced with adversity?You.
Thanks for asking, whoever you are.
And Quill, when I have stereotipate you north-americans?? Let me know, ok?
posted 04-09-2001 09:01 AM PT (US) 
Quill
Oscar® Winner

Anytime you utter the phrase "you Americans" in regards to a facet of America that you despise, you imply that we are part of, support, or preach that notion.Aren't you just as guilt of stereotyping when you make these generalizations?
posted 04-09-2001 09:23 AM PT (US) 
scoreguy15
unregistered
Hey wait! Proof Of Life is supposed to be based on a true story about the kidnapping of a journalist, isn't it?!Clay G.
posted 04-09-2001 10:17 AM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Quill:
Anytime you utter the phrase "you Americans" in regards to a facet of America that you despise, you imply that we are part of, support, or preach that notion.Well but are you not? So far you and almost all the others only confirmed this. Then again, I don't see why you insist on twist what I said to deviate the attention from the central subject.
Just see what Clay wrote above.
Yes, the movie was probably "inspired" by a fact someone read at the headline of a newspaper: "USA journalist is kidnapped in South America". But this doesn't mean that what you see on screen has anything to do with reality. Which is even more outrageous, since it's sold like if it was "based on a true story".That's what racism is all about.
posted 04-09-2001 10:27 AM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

No, that's what Hollywood is all about.Racism is something utterly different.
Andre--whatever the use may be, you're the one who decided I was a virgin, because of some stance I took on Zimmer, or Horner, or whatever...but whenever you made the assumption that due to my musical preferences that I was a virgin (?!)....pure idiocy, my backward friend.
posted 04-09-2001 12:43 PM PT (US) 
André Lux

Oscar® Winner

No, that's what racism is all about. Hollywood just makes use of it because it helps to sell their industrialized products easily amonst the average mindless audiences.Just imagine the huge headache a complex movie like UNDER FIRE (where you cannot know for sure who are the bad guys and who are the good guys) produces on those persons.
And mate, my "virgin" remark was obviously a sarcastic one. I can say that you act like one, but how can I know for sure?
Besides, to call someone a virgin isn't so offensive as half of the insults you use to throw over me in the past years.But don't worry: I will survive!

[Message edited by André Lux on 04-09-2001]
posted 04-09-2001 01:33 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

Andre, my position has always been one of defense, though my position has been more fortified, of late. Any thing I might have said against you has been provoked by your inflammatory remarks, which i probably should have had more intelligence *not* to respond to, but hey, we're all human.What I've been trying to achieve and/or promote here, is the fact that every composer is worthwhile, and that individuals shouldn't be ruled out because they happen to enjoy the music and films that seem to be in the minority (at least on this board.)
At any rate, I do not tolerate those posts that slump those who enjoy a particular composer's music in a certain "degenerate" group...(which seems more akin to narrow-mindedness.)
posted 04-09-2001 02:29 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
