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McNeely's 3 Worlds of Gulliver
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Topic: McNeely's 3 Worlds of Gulliver

Mark Olivarez

Oscar® Winner

I have Herrmann's original score released by Cloud Nine/Silva Screen. The sound isn't that great on it compared to their release of Mysterious Island so I was debating on getting the McNeely recording. Does anyone have the Varese release yet? Does the Varese version have the two songs written by George Duning (Wonderful Gulliver and Gentle Love)? How is the overall performance? McNeely usually hits a homerun with his Herrmann recordings.
posted 04-01-2001 01:01 PM PT (US) 
sakman
Oscar® Winner

The Duning songs are not included.After just a cursory listen--more detailed one tomorrow, general impressions are that this is not at the same level as the "Vertigo", "Trouble With Harry", or "Marnie" recordings. But that means only that it is still far above average.
The most immediate thing I noticed was that the strings sounded a bit thin in places (the acoustic seemed drier and not as ambient), but I am not sure if that is the result of a "digital" problem, or if they reduced the orchestra size for some cues.
I'd say pick this up as it is not likely there will ever be another recording of this anyway.
posted 04-01-2001 08:08 PM PT (US) 
Mark Olivarez

Oscar® Winner

Also appears to be expanded by 5 or 6 mins as well. The original runs about 45 min with the 2 songs combined at 2:30. The Varese version runs around 49 mins minus the songs. Had a chance to hear a clip of the main title today. It is missing something but the tempo sounded ok.
posted 04-01-2001 09:19 PM PT (US) 
BobaMike

Oscar® Winner

I have never heard this score before, so I can't tell you if the tempo is off or anything...but:
the sound is awesome! What a wonderful little score...the opening and closing little march is great, sounds very british
Its a very classical score, at times it didn't even sound like a soundtrack to me!
I'm glad I bought this cd, to those who don't care much for golden age scores, check it out, you won't regret it.BobaMike
np: nothing, since I'm on a Mac in the lab and they suck (stupid mouse and keyboard!)posted 04-03-2001 07:22 AM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

BobaMike sed:
quote:
to those who don't care much for golden age scores, check it out, you won't regret it.
well, that goes for MOST of those older scores. Truer words were never written.
NP -- The Truth About Howard Shore, the compilation I sent to the few who dared try something new...posted 04-03-2001 11:21 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Oscar® Winner

I am not a big fan of McNeely's re-recordings. I thought he destroyed Marnie. When I heard he was doing this and had recorded it in one day, I assumed the worse. But it's Herrmann, so if it's played by 2 midgets and a tuba, I got to try it.And I was actually pleased with this (though I've only played it once so far). Yes, the orchestra sounds a bit thin in a few minor places--but I didn't hear any of those glaring, gut-twisting glitches I found listening to some of the other McNeely re-records.
posted 04-03-2001 09:07 PM PT (US) 
Nicolai P. Zwar

Oscar® Winner

Excellent recording throughout, very well recorded. Well worth getting.
posted 04-05-2001 06:20 AM PT (US) 
Matt Perkins

Oscar® Winner

The McNeely/Herrmann re-recordings have been wildly erratic, - FAHRENHEIT 451 was very nice, VERTIGO was superb, TORN CURTAIN was disastrous. For this reason, I've delayed I've not heard MARNIE but have been increasingly put off by all the adverse comments about it - why oh why can't the orig soundtrack be released (there are two tantalising tracks on the Hip-O Hitchcock collection "Signatures in Suspense").
Anyway, re GULLIVER, if Lou likes it then I might just pick it up even though I have the Cloud 9 soundtrack release.
posted 04-09-2001 04:53 AM PT (US) 
Brad Wills

Oscar® Winner

There's been a terrific bootleg of the original MARNIE tracks floating around for years. Great sound, too.
posted 04-09-2001 02:57 PM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Oscar® Winner

Thanks Matt, it's true I'm very picky when it comes to re-records (some feel so much so), but I'm still flattered by your vote of confidence. I was pleasantly surprised by 3 Worlds. There are those who think McNeely's Marnie is good. Certainly some of the cues are well done, it's just the cringe you feel with the cues that are off that make you want to toss the CD like a discus. But you may not feel that like I did if you ever pick it up.Of course, Varese doesn't deserve your patronage. When the Tsunami bootleg came out in mono, Varese complained that it made their release of it in stereo unviable, but then they go ahead and do a poor re-record because they felt THAT had more profit potential.
Not only were they off--they would have made money as most people with the mono boot would still have bought a legit stereo CD--but they showed what a profit-hungry film-score-fan unfriendly an outfit they were (and yes, I could have called them much worse there but didn't).
Royal S Brown and a number of other record producer types or people against boots have used Varese's story to condemn the boot practice, but it's a sham. Varese probably had too much to pay for a legit version in the first place and were shy for starts. This way they could back out and raise ire elsewhere rather than issue something with a low profit margin.
If you're not against bootlegs yourself, I would pick up the Tsunami boot--it's original tracks and they are wonderful even in mono.
NP: The Fall of the Roman Empire (Dimitri Tiomkin)
[Message edited by Lou Goldberg on 04-11-2001]
posted 04-11-2001 02:26 AM PT (US) 
Matt Perkins

Oscar® Winner

Thanks for the info Lou - I tend not to buy bootlegs, primarily I guess because, for whatever reasons, they do seem to deter the legit labels from releasing certain scores "properly" as it were. (with honourable exceptions of course, such as FSM) and I resent giving my hard-earned cash to those naughty bootleggers (it just encourages them!). But as you rightly point out, most would certainly buy a legit release to replace any dodgy bootleg that might be in their possession (which I am sure will be borne out by the sales figures of FSM's new release of THE TOWERING INFERNO)
I must confess I don't have your knowledge of the whys & wherefores of Varese's decisions on things such as MARNIE - very interesting info, I had no idea they were at one time planning to release the MARNIE soundtrack.
Having said all this, it is very tempting to make an exception and pick up that Tsunami boot, as Herrmann's score is so fantastic it would seem perverse of me to put up with an off-target re-recording. (Incidentally, it's hard to imagine how Hitchcock could have been displeased with it although I suppose at that time he was already caving in to commercial pressure from the Universal "suits")
I'm no purist when it comes to re-recordings I must add, but like you I do get frustrated when Varese, and more especially Silva Screen "miss the boat" so badly on certain things - it does tend to defeat the whole object of re-recording a score!Best,
Mattposted 04-11-2001 05:22 AM PT (US) 
Lou Goldberg

Oscar® Winner

I don't know who you are Matt, but for slamming re-records and Silva Screen, you've got an open invite to dinner from me.There are some on this board who are very happy with re-records and have disagreed with me about the merits of re-records I've disliked. It's a case-by-case thing where there are many good re-records. I'm not against the concept of re-recording scores. But you do sum up how I feel when you say if the new version is going to be inferior, why bother, it defeats the purpose. The reason why they bother is money. Not to say they that some producers don't love film music or care about it, but they let things pass and release things that I would go back to work on more. Then they feel proud of their achivements and angry at their critics and refuse to accept any of their criticsms to improve things.
I may not be able to convert you to the following philosophy but I'm going to present it for your consideration.
I am not opposed to pirates and bootleg CDs. They are pricy and there is no quality control and it is illegal activity. However, legitimate record producers, the musician's unions, and the film studios that have and own much of this material have been neglegent of it in the past and are still too profit conscious about it now. This is changing some as FSM and Rhino realize that a few will pay larger prices for this material which makes it feasable to issue a limited edition of it. Nevertheless, life is short, and there are too many scores languishing unheard, unpreserved. The pirates take great risks to get this material and issue it and they do us and culture a big favor in doing so. They don't spend much money getting the material to issue and they can make big dollars through high prices, but they can be fined and jailed for their activities. The worst thing that can happen to legit companies is they go out of business. Which do you consider the worse fate? It's very cheap for the legit corporate groups surrounding film music to spread the word/propaganda that supporting bootleggers hurts you. You don't get legit releases, etc. No. Don't be fooled. Supporting bootleggers hurts them. People have only so much money to spend and if they spend it on boots as opposed to their product, they're the ones out not us. They could be meeting the demand that the bootleggers are supplying but they are afraid of risking the large money it costs to afford a legit release for the thin profit margin. That means they are not really interested in issuing the things bootlegged or else they would be out legitimately already. In some other cases, the owners of the material have no interest at all in re-issuing it and boots are the only way under those circumstances for us to have, hear, and preserve the material. You may not agree as I said, but consider that boots are not the satan's spawn they are sometimes made out to be.
So, give Tsumani the money that could have been Varese's if they weren't such chicken money-grubbers. See that's the reverse arguement for the record producers--if you don't issue it, the bootleggers will, so you might as well do us all a favor and get to it rather than dither. The Marnie boot is one of the best as far as sound is considered, very closely on par with the few cues you have from the Signatures CD.
[Message edited by Lou Goldberg on 04-11-2001]
posted 04-11-2001 09:55 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
