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Author	Topic: James Horner... big sigh

HAL 2000 Oscar® Winner	I make this post with great resignation and a bit of frustration at the continual spiral of this composer, not only deeper into banality, but into an utter lack of creative drive. Yes, this is a blanket statement as I have found depressingly little of this man's output of interest since Zorro a few years ago. Now he has a new, hotly anticipated score coming around the corner and already I'm already wringing my hands over it. No doubt it will contain many Hornerisms and that has almost become excusable. But if you go to the Sony Classical page for the score and sample "Tania" come back and tell me what you hear. And this one of our masters? http://www.sonyclassical.com/music/89522/
posted 02-19-2001 01:10 PM PT (US)

TimT Oscar® Winner	Are you refering to the way it sounds like Shcindler's List? I thihk its better to listen and just try to get in the mood of the whole thing, instead of the techinical aspects. Becuase, unlike with a regular music artist the customers can do nothing about it. And who said that man is our master?? [Message edited by TimT on 02-19-2001]
posted 02-19-2001 01:20 PM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	I actually hear that great piece from Apollo13 and Balto reorchestrated...oh yeah, and Schindler's List. I wouldn't jump to conclusion over one minute of music. Apparently the last third of the CD is excellent material.
posted 02-19-2001 03:15 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by TimT: ...unlike with a regular music artist the customers can do nothing about it. Except not buying the score album.
posted 02-19-2001 03:36 PM PT (US)

H Rocco Oscar® Winner	I won't. Until or unless I see the movie (no telling these days what I will and will not have time to see in theaters) and discover the music is great. I agree that ZORRO had its good moments, esp. the love theme, but I saw the movie IN ADVANCE (I would have seen it anyway, but as for picking up an album -- I've been burned by Horner too many times to ever buy him "ear unheard" again.) [Message edited by H Rocco on 02-19-2001]
posted 02-19-2001 03:46 PM PT (US)

John C Winfrey Oscar® Winner	I had it turned all the way up but I couldn't tell much from it. It was very quiet in the first part. I won't be buying it anyway. I haven't bought any of his in years. I read the book many years ago. It was good. Too bad they didn't get someone else to compose the score. Best, John.
posted 02-19-2001 03:53 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Oscar® Winner	Ack. Apollo 13 revisited. I'm with John W., I won't be picking this up either. My current Horner collection is the Apollo 13 Promo... and I think that's quite enough, thank you.
posted 02-19-2001 03:59 PM PT (US)

Wedge Oscar® Winner	Like HAL and Rocco, the last new Horner score I even mildly enjoyed was "Zorro." I'm VERY skeptical about this one, especially as Sony Classical explicitly states "drawing on the powerful and melodic music of the Russian Masters." Sounds like they're covering their bases. I'm ready for the worst. On the other hand, it may give me some more material for my in-progress Prokofiev article for Film Score Monthly.
posted 02-19-2001 04:07 PM PT (US)

wistiti Oscar® Winner	wistiti will get it. I'll get myself decapitated for saying this, but I like it better than Williams' theme, even though it sounds as if it's based on Schindler's List. Impatiently waiting for the cd to hit store shelves.
posted 02-19-2001 04:17 PM PT (US)

Wedge Oscar® Winner	Um ... you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but better than "Schindlers List" when all you have to go on is a horribly distorted sixty-second fragment? shrugs
posted 02-19-2001 04:26 PM PT (US)

Al Oscar® Winner	Wedge makes a good point. Wistiti, tell us whether or not you like it better than William's theme after you buy the cd and give it a good listen.
posted 02-19-2001 05:42 PM PT (US)

jonathan_little Oscar® Winner	The Deconstructing Goldsmith website pulled a Jeron (recorded some of the music in the theater) and uploaded some clips from this score. http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Academy/9059/_enemyatthegates.htm
posted 02-19-2001 08:16 PM PT (US)

Jeron Oscar® Winner	Hey now! Whatchoo talkin' about, Willus???
posted 02-19-2001 08:22 PM PT (US)

Wedge Oscar® Winner	Just listened to those "Enemy at the Gates" clips. Good grief! The first part of the End Credits sound like variations on four notes marching up and down a scale. Maybe Mozart could have pulled it off ... The middle is another re-invention of Prokofiev. Not a rip-off, just routine meandering in his territory. The third part returns to the original theme. It does sound a little like "Schindler's List," but's a pleasant enough theme. However it only takes a few extended repetitions to reveals its basic banality. I'm VERY disappointed at that damnable four-note motif popping up AGAIN! Especially in such quantities! Eventually, even casual moviegoers are going to start to dread the sound of it! Is Horner's imagination so depleted he must constantly return to the same four-note hitch? (Which he "borrowed" in the first place.) In exhibiting such shameless creative corner-cutting, is Horner really serving the BEST interests of the films he scores? Was the extra effort that every other composer in hollywood seems to manage too impractical to put forth. Or is Horner just getting lazy? This is DEFINITELY one I'll be leaving on the CD shelves.
posted 02-19-2001 08:39 PM PT (US)

Rang Oscar® Winner	I only heared SCHINDLER'S LIST after reading comments here. What first came to mind was a similarity to Shostakovich's "Piano Concerto No. 2, Allegro, Opus 102" (can't you just tell I'm reading the FANTASIA 2000 album credits ) which immediately made me think about the reference to the "Great Russian Masters."
posted 02-19-2001 11:08 PM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	Yep, Schindler's List, no doubt. How he gets away with this is beyond me. I'm very dissapointed. This is blantant. Hmmm... Scott
posted 02-19-2001 11:42 PM PT (US)

Marian Schedenig Oscar® Winner	Regarding the slight similarity to Schindler's List - Horner has done far worse than that. Just listen to Willow (nevertheless a wonderful score) or Aliens. NP: Sergei Prokofiev: Lieutenant Kijé (LSO, André Previn)
posted 02-20-2001 04:42 AM PT (US)

wistiti Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Wedge: Um ... you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but better than "Schindlers List" when all you have to go on is a horribly distorted sixty-second fragment? shrugs quote: Originally posted by Al: Wedge makes a good point. Wistiti, tell us whether or not you like it better than William's theme after you buy the cd and give it a good listen. You're (both) right. I cannot judge the whole based on a partial sample. However, let me explain what I meant: From the excerpts that I've heard (as much at Sony Classical as that other place where the clips appear to have been taped in a theater), James Horner's take on the Schindler's List motif, pleases me more than John Williams' (original) version. It's just an opinion based on this small sample, sure. And I'm not saying that the whole CD will please me more than the whole Schindler's List CD. But when it comes to this particular sample, and it's Schindlerian counterpart, I like this one better, if nothing else, for the orchestrations.
posted 02-20-2001 07:25 AM PT (US)

Scott Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by wistiti: But when it comes to this particular sample, and it's Schindlerian counterpart, I like this one better, if nothing else, for the orchestrations. Well, the orchestrations better be different, since Schindler's was really supporting a Jewish struggle versus what this film will be all about. Bottom line for me is that what I heard was just a blatant copy of the theme (mostly at the beginning). I consider Horner way too good to stoop that low...then again, perhaps it was all just a mistake. Scott
posted 02-20-2001 08:09 AM PT (US)

Quill Oscar® Winner	I hope the score as a whole is better than Schindler...other than the theme that score bores me to tears. In the end I will enjoy the score because Horner's music always has an some subtle emotional effect on me, and others will be annoyed because they hear other music embedded and have preconditioned themselves to expect it. I like it--copied or not. Others will despise it--copied or not.
posted 02-20-2001 08:53 AM PT (US)

Mark Olivarez Oscar® Winner	Is anyone actually suprised by this. Horner has gotten to be a lazy hack since he won his Oscar. All he does is throw a bunch of notes on a page and say here ya go! He has not matured like other composers, he has just gotten lazy. Horner could only dream of writing a score that would come close to Schindler's List.
posted 02-20-2001 09:57 AM PT (US)

André Lux Oscar® Winner	Last night I saw THE PERFECT STORM. Ok, the score is quite derivative, but works in most parts, except when the ridiculous four note motif started to appear... "Look! A big wave!" FÓRÓRÓ-RÓMMMMMMMMMM... What's wrong with this Horner figure???
posted 02-20-2001 01:07 PM PT (US)

PeterK FishChip	Andre, could it be that I see this figure every where I go? It's on surfboards, bus stops, commuter trains, and even on the Red Trolley. Heck, don't stop there. I've seen it in Starbucks, Barnes and Noble, K-Mart, Wal-Mart, Tasty-Mart, Meat-Mart and Kinko-Mart (where it seems to thrive the most). But, it's not totally everywhere, so Horner will continue with it....
posted 02-20-2001 01:30 PM PT (US)

Nicolai P. Zwar Oscar® Winner	Okay, if I sum this up correctly so far, we, the people of this thread, have here in this one clip so far recognized John Williams' Schindler's List, Horner's own Apollo13, Balto, and Shostakovich's 2nd Piano Concerto all spiced with a splash of Prokofiev. Let me heap Jarre's Dr. Zhivago on top of the pile for good measure. Wow, listen to that. And all this in only 60 seconds? Sounds like this must be one hell of a composition. Horner must be a genius. [Message edited by Nicolai P. Zwar on 02-20-2001]
posted 02-20-2001 03:03 PM PT (US)

Wedge Oscar® Winner	Well, I listened to a good cross-section of cues over at that site where they snuck a recording device into the theater.
posted 02-20-2001 06:37 PM PT (US)

wistiti Oscar® Winner	quote: Originally posted by Mark Olivarez: Horner has gotten to be a lazy hack since he won his Oscar. He was lazy before getting the oscar. Don't forget, he got the statuette for one of the most blatantly plagiarized scores in recent memory.
posted 02-20-2001 07:19 PM PT (US)

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