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Enemy at the Gates - F*%K
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Topic: Enemy at the Gates - F*%K

Hasta
Oscar® Winner

Ok, well here I am listening to Free Willy. I've had a very good day, and am happy as can be. So, I do my daily check at www.rottentomatoes.com, and what do I see? Well, Hannibal isn't getting such good reviews. Who cares, I wasn't looking foward to that anyway. Then, as I do every time I visit, I search "Enemy at the Gates"... A new review is up, but there is no quote. I am pumped, and being "Variety", who usually has solid reviews and comments on the score, I smiled. Well, now I am pissed... For those of you who care, the review is here...
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/click/movie-10000069/reviews.php?critic=approved&sortby=default&page=1&rid=176653Simply put, he says the movie isn't very good. He doesn't describe himself much, but says most the problems lie with the director (who did Seven Years in Tibet as well as many others)... Looking so foward to this film, I am pissed... Then, I just HAVE to read this comment...
"Apart from a lazy, uninspired score by James Horner, tech credits are genuinely impressive."
F*%K!!! There goes my day (and perhaps week) =(
NP: Free Willy (Basil Poledouris) ****/*****
posted 02-08-2001 07:44 PM PT (US) 
Lancelot

Oscar® Winner

It's always a great idea to let the wonderful folks at RottenTomatoes.com make up your mind for you. Saves you the trouble.
posted 02-08-2001 08:05 PM PT (US) 
TimT

Oscar® Winner

Well I for one, never pay attention to movie reviews, I always have to see for myself.
posted 02-08-2001 08:51 PM PT (US) 
Mark Olivarez

Oscar® Winner

Never let anyone make up your mind for you. If you think you will like the movie go see it and to hell with what reviewers think. 9/10 times they're usually wrong anyhow. I'm looking forward to seeing Hannibal regardless of what the critics say. Although it wouldn't suprise me with Horner's score being lazy, as is the case with all of his scores since Titanic (and even some before).[Message edited by Mark Olivarez on 02-08-2001]
posted 02-08-2001 09:04 PM PT (US) 
TimT

Oscar® Winner

What makes a film critics opinion so valuable? I know people that would not go see a film just becuase of a bad review!
What makes the critics opinion more important than everyone elses?And what the heck is a "Professional Film Critic"?
[Message edited by TimT on 02-08-2001]
posted 02-08-2001 09:32 PM PT (US) 
Hasta
Oscar® Winner

Oh by no means do critics opinions make me actually not see a movie I'm looking foward to, but I can't help but get a little depressed when I hear something like that.NP: Nothing, watching Just Shoot Me
posted 02-08-2001 09:50 PM PT (US) 
Captain Howdy

Oscar® Winner

Well, despite the masses of people who backlash against critics for not liking a particular film with claims that they don't know anything, there is such a thing as a professional film critic. These people know films; they've watched a whole lot...believe me. They know the craft of film, they know the cliches, they know what, in many cases, works and whats too manipulative. And they also know how to write a cohesive article about a film.Still, while I do listen to critics, and take into account what they say (they know stuff, people...don't write them off so quickly), I don't place the majority on a high enough pedestal to persuade me to see a film I don't want to see, or dissuade me from seeing one I have the desire to.
Simply put, personal preference plays a large part in film watching. Many films can be techinically well made, but don't appeal to a particular critic because of subject matter or taste. Thus, a low grade. Contrastly, another person might find it technically well made and incredibly interesting, thus a high grade.
I'm just a little sick of people blowing off film critics like they mean absolutely nothing. They practice their trade; most are film historians, and many have seen (X)-times more movies than the majority of people will see in their entire lives. They know what their talking about; don't let personal preference blind you from that fact. [Of course, I'm speaking of those critics who are established, or highly praised, not the abundance of self-proclaimed I-net "critics", though some are just as good as printed critics.]
posted 02-08-2001 10:06 PM PT (US) 
Kross
Oscar® Winner

Simply put, I agree with critics who agree with me and I like critics who are like me and agree with me. If they do not agree, screw em, they are not me.I would put more stock into what a critic says if he or she HAS ACTUALLY MADE A SINGLE FILM OR SCORE but they usually have not. It is too easy to become a film critic. A critic is a movie lover who was to lazy, or just couldn't hack it as a filmmaker. That is my take, and if you disagree, well then I guess I disagree with your disagreement.
posted 02-08-2001 10:21 PM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

I would also say that applies to film & classical music reviewers.
A good, solid grounding in musical theory and history always makes for an informed musical opinion.Not to slight anyone, but I personally don't know of any film music reviewers who have studied music extensively.
But they appreciate the hell out of it, and I think that also counts for a lot.Of course, everything about art forms is highly subjective anyway.
NP -- The Black Hole, John Barry; in film, this music stunning, except for one sequence in which the overture theme is used during a little battle. it's weird.
posted 02-08-2001 10:59 PM PT (US) 
Kris

Oscar® Winner

The movie was shown in Berlin and didn´t get good reviews. I guess that´s because it´s about the battle of Stalingrad and that topic is pretty sensitive in Germany.The music is supposed to be good though. I heard several pieces during some of the scenes showed on German television. It´s Horner. Expect the score to be dramatic with a nice theme.
posted 02-09-2001 02:05 AM PT (US) 
Quill
Oscar® Winner

My question concerning film critics is this: "Who do they serve?" The media their thoughts reside in are intended for the general populace...but rarely are critics in tune with what their readers enjoy.After awhile, as movie often do, critics all start to sound the same, they fall into their own cliches. I do not doubt their knowledge for the field, but after awhile you know they will hate films like Armageddon, Independence Day, and practically every other film that the movie masses flock to, while they will always loft onto pedestals films no one has ever heard of. I would like to hear more critics say, "You know the movie breaks no new ground, is ridden with cliches and plotholes...but its still fun none-the-less."
I don't know about everyone else...I pay my $9.00 to be entertained. If I want to undergo a personal learning experience or get an enlightened view of the world, I'll go the library.
posted 02-09-2001 07:55 AM PT (US) 
MWRuger

Oscar® Winner

When considering whether to place stock in what a critic says, keep in mind that they are generally viewing a film “critically”, not just for the enjoyment of movie going. That is why they often seem at odds from some of the audience. They are looking at different things.As Captain Howdy pointed out above, they have seen many movies and are able to view a movie with a certain amount of objectivity. Further, they can articulate why they liked or disliked a film other than saying: “It just wasn’t my thing.” They are viewing as a piece of art. They ask questions like:
Does it break new ground?
Does the director pioneer some new technique?
Is this a new take on an old tale, or is it cliché ridden?
Is the story cohesive?
Does it have an “idiot” plot? (In other words, if the characters on the screen were as smart as the audience would they resolve the conflict in about 15 minutes.)
Did the actors distinguish themselves or did they just cop a pay check?
Is there any meaning here other than enriching a studio?
Is the film cynically manipulative? (ala Armageddon)
Was I surprised? (I can really understand this one. I have seen literally a couple of thousand flicks and a film with the capacity to make me say “Whoa. Didn’t see that coming” is extremely rare.)
Did the director accomplish his goals?
I use critics to help me decide when I am unsure about a picture. If it is on the bubble, a good or bad review can be very helpful.
I think one of the reasons that critics get so much disdain is that everyone who sees a film thinks they have the capacity to do the seem job. I would submit that you are mistaken about what is involved in the process. Critics generally see 6-7 hundred movies a year and they see some pretty awful stuff. They also see the same plot made over and over again. After a while, they don’t see any reason to give the latest “lone wronged man against the system” or the latest “relentless creepy killer stalks teens out for a good time” a good review unless it transcends its material in some way.
Just because you disagree with a critic’s conclusion, doesn’t mean that it is wrong. Critic’s lambasted Deep Rising. They were absolutely right. From a critical stand point it is a train wreck. I still like it, but it is deeply flawed as a film. Same story with The Mummy.
So consider that the critic really isn’t seeing the same film you are. He/She is seeing the 700th iteration of a plot that Hitchcock perfected in the 60’s or seeing a respected actor, who should know better, chewing the scenery like he hasn’t eaten in year because he took this role to get enough cash to fix the roof on his Irish estate. Now imagine that he has to do this nearly every day. Is it any wonder that he hasn’t a nice thing to say about it?
posted 02-09-2001 08:37 AM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Oscar® Winner

I never listen to any reviews. When Ebert bashed the score to "Lost in Space" I was pissed. People that review movies enough eventually are never impressed by anything and get a cynical outlook on films and television. I am sure the movie will be good and I am sure Horner will have a great score.Don't worry Jason.
--Brian
Writer & Film/Video EditorNP: Hannibal on STC (****)
posted 02-09-2001 10:41 AM PT (US) 
Tom54
Oscar® Nominee

Hello,Once in forty years we in Berlin have the chance to see something before you...
...so we did yesterday. But we didn´t forget you boys. Check this out:
http://www.geocities.com/tomsami/_enemyatthegates.htmp.s.: I loved the film, the reviewers you mentioned were prejudiced idiots.
posted 02-09-2001 10:43 AM PT (US) 
John Dunham

Oscar® Winner

Posted this at Filmtracks too, in response to the same post:
The clips are quite poor quality.
They sound like they were recorded in the theatre, and there is even some guy who coughs every ten seconds or so. WHY do people that sick go to see movies? If I were that sick (actually, I do have a bit of a cold) I certainly wouldn't go to a theatre. It's incredibly rude to subject the other patrons to your constant coughing... Meantime, the music itself: So so. yeah, yeah, the theme is reused. Unfortunately, the stunning beauty and breathtaking awe of the theme in the track "Heritage Of The Wolf" from Balto are gone here. (In fact, never have I heard a more emotional Horner piece than that. It is as good as he can get, so good that you don't even care that the theme is reused.)
So, the theme in Enemy At The Gates is just a (much) less interesting rehash.
Even the russian choral isn't very interesting.
Well, I'll reserve judgement until I hear the whole score in the film, but IMO, if Horner can't write the theme as well as he did in "Heritage Of The Wolf," he shouldn't use it.John
posted 02-09-2001 11:59 AM PT (US) 
ManOfSorrows

Oscar® Winner

Ok, James Horner is LAZY!!!Direct out of Willow, what the **** is he doing?
I compose my own music, but I don't use the same music over and over again...
boooooooooring..
posted 02-09-2001 12:17 PM PT (US) 
Crono/Kyp

Oscar® Winner

Well, I like it! It really reminds me of "List" though. And that "Willow" cue part is annoying, but I never liked it anyway. I'll still pick this one up, but I might need to see the movie first.--Brian
Writer & Film/Video EditorNP: Enemy at the Gates Clips
[Message edited by Crono/Kyp on 02-09-2001]
posted 02-09-2001 01:07 PM PT (US) 
Jeron

Oscar® Winner

quote:
Originally posted by Crono/Kyp:
Well, I like it! It really reminds me of "List" though.List? What's that? Are you talking about Liszt? Or Schindler's List?
posted 02-09-2001 01:23 PM PT (US) 
JJH

Oscar® Winner

VH1's The List?
a shopping list?
a To Do list?
posted 02-09-2001 02:45 PM PT (US) 
Hasta
Oscar® Winner

Uninspired, sure... Sounds great though... The quality is obviously the worst I've ever heard, but at least we get a clue what it's going to be like.Lord, I'm listening to the other two tracks now... Something has seriously got to be wrong with Mr. Horner. There is simply NO WAY you use that f*cking cue from Willow in SO MANY GOD FORSAKEN SCORES!!! I just have to wonder if he can even create an original note anymore! It's enjoyable, yes... But equally pathetic.
[Message edited by Hasta on 02-09-2001]
posted 02-09-2001 02:50 PM PT (US) 
wistiti

Oscar® Winner

Critics are a good thing. You can almost always judge which movies to see based on their opinion. You just have to do the opposite of what they say.If 90% of critics agree a movie is bad, then I go see it.
But if 90% agree a movie is great, then I just miss it.Most of the time, the tactic works. I miss very few good movies, and I see a lot of good ones.
posted 02-09-2001 03:19 PM PT (US) 
Hasta
Oscar® Winner

We're F*cked...
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=8146Yet ANOTHER very bad review... I think it's fairly safe to assume this film may bomb. You just don't get this many purely negative reviews in a row before release.
NP: Cider House Rules (Portman) ***/*****
posted 02-10-2001 01:40 PM PT (US) 
DeadPoet
Oscar® Winner

Hey, Hasta (or Jason, if you prefer your real name), I can't speak for the movie or the score personally, but Andy from scorereviews.com just posted some quick comments about the score itself here: http://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/main.cgi?read=19677. He just got his advanced copy so hopefully he'll get a full review up soon on his site. But anyway, I'm gonna reserve judgement (as should you) for the film until it actually comes out. I know negative reviews from critcs (although, aintitcool.com isn't exactly the best place to look for deep, analytical reviews of films) can sometimes get to you, but you should just wait and see how you like. It might be quite a different reaction than what those critics say.--Jason S.
posted 02-10-2001 09:29 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB
