John Williams is, without debate, one of the greatest and most influential voices in the world of film music. His work in the 70's and 80's helped change the industry, and I believe, drew many of us to our now beloved hobby. No less influential, and more prolific is Jerry Goldsmith, who might not have as many remembered themes among the populace, but still manages to entrall us with his music even to this day.

And this brings me to my point...

I've looked back over the passed five years, comparing both composers, and (to me!) the results are startling:

Jerry has written roughly 20 scores since '95, for varying genres and with varying styles, while Mr. Williams has composed half that...

Nixon, Sabrina, Sleepers, Rosewood, Seven Years in Tibet, Saving Private Ryan, Amistad, Angeles Ashes, The Phantom Menace, and the Patriot.

Of these Seven Years and Phantom Menace stand out as the William's we know and love, but we get fluff like Sabrina, and scores worth only the cost of CD for the main themes (Nixon, Saving Private Ryan) The rest seem to slip into the mundane...of course you all will have differing opinions of individual scores, but as a whole I see a trend I don't much like.

I think it's important (as well as blatantly obvious) to note that John Williams IS NOT Jerry Goldsmith.

It's not really my place to make excuses for Williams or Goldsmith, but as this arguement is largely opinion-based, I'm just as happy with the scores he has produced in the same amount of times.

Meanwhile, I don't think Goldsmith has composed for "varying genres with various styles"--I think that many are very similar Genres, and many have very similar styles, though it's difficult to convince anyone of this fact--perhaps as difficult as it is to convince a Horner fan or a Zimmer fan out of his/her views....

But if you want to argue about "why X is better the Y", have at it, and see if you're more pleased at the end of the arguement, than at the beginning.

He hasn't lost his creativity - he just changed his overall style.

(And don't forget we have - if he's really scoring it - Harry Potter upcoming. )

Perhaps I was spoiled with his work two decades ago, or perhaps I do not enjoy his new stylistic approach...Even the Lost World (thanks for reminding me) is relatively bland when compared to Jurassic Park. You can't blame an immortal for coming back down to earth...

quote:

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. I can only think that man who wrote Star Wars, Raiders, ET, Jaws, and Superman...has finally run out of ink in his pen (no sexual pun intended) Perhaps it's his choice of projects, but maybe not...I long for the Williams of old...where the hell is he???!!!

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I for one don't think Williams went ANYWHERE.

his music is just as powerful and competent as it's ever been.

Could this be one reason why some feel Williams has lost his midas touch? He isn't writing for action-adventure, sci-fi, horror, or fantasy films as much as he did towards the mid '70s and throughout the '80s, which, generally speaking, receives a greater amount of attention from score enthusiasts. But I don't think this points towards Williams' lack of creativity, which I think hasn't dropped at all. He's just channeling his creative energies into different ways.

Which is to say, (again, with no disrespect to either party) John Williams' output per Oscar Nod has been more consistant than Goldsmith....

Once again though, my entire post boils down to taste and opinion. In my mind, Goldsmith has shown a greater degree of creativity and energy in his work over the past five years, while still being prolific. It could simply be that Williams does not wish to score as frequently any more (too bad for us!) or that Goldsmith's creative well is simply deeper.

I love both men's work...always have and always will. But it just feels like Williams is slowing in the twilight years while Goldsmith shows no signs of slowing down.

I don't know how one would accurately judged whether Williams' creative well has dried up, but in the end, it is your opinion, and I respect that.

I actually am on the flip side of you, feeling that Goldsmith's '90s efforts have been less engaging than his work from previous decades, with some exceptions, of course, while Williams has continued composing scores of high quality. (I'm specifically talking about the music independent from the films, as I've rarely had a problem with either of their scores in relation to their funtion in the films.)

Around the 1940's Mickey Mouse started changing his appearance. His eyes started having pupils, he received more defined ears and a more pleasing body (most developments started by the great Fred Moore). Some didn't like the new rat and thought he started to become too serious for his own good.

Both Williams and Goldsmith have changed their style. I love both composers. I really don't think this has anything to do with their creative juices running dry. Williams has a more classical aproach these days and he always has been rather limiting in his amount of output. After all, the man was the principal conductor for the Boston Posps for 10 years and continues to be very much active in the concert halls of the world and writing music for different areas other than film.

You may not like his choice of films you may despise his current style...but I still think he kicks butt everytime he composes anything (even Tibet...a score I really do not like too much).

The Patriot is a nice melding of the style change Williams has gone through.

track 15 specifically is right out the Williams style of the late 70s and early 80s.
it also features some of the heavy strings he has used so much in the 90s.

Williams is carrying the torch for what great movie music can be. It may be a little heavy handed and unoriginal at times (this is new to film music?), but it's so wonderful.

I think the use soloists is nothing to be criticize Williams about. MANY composers and classical soloists have collaborated on film scores. Jasha Heifitz, Yo-Yo MA, Christopher Parkening, Itzhak Perlman.

Williams' music just brings a touch of class to the proceedings.

...(kidding!!!)

Seriously though, this isn't a discussion I care to get into. Not because I can't, simply because I won't. I love both composers' work equally and refuse to dissect them in order to justify their present "sense of creativity." These are THE TWO GREATEST film composers of our time (or my time, at least). No question. They both arrived at that position by taking different routes. They both succeed based on an entirely different set of variables.

I will say this: If you were to put these guys in a Celebrity Deathmath, I'm sure they'd both team up and pound the ref. (and whoever else is watching). That's what I think.

How's that, Justin?

first, as these guys are the 3000 gorillas in the film scoring business, they're kind of obligated to do a certain kind of BIG score now. When they were in their 30's and 40's they were free to experiment more. Now there's so much money and expectation tied to their hiring that they have to do what's expected of them. Big Hollywood actors have the same problem, I think.

Second, they've both been at this for something like 40 years, and let's face it, after a while you just don't feel like reinventing the wheel again. The thing is, I just don't see too many younger guys who are breaking the mold the way Goldsmith did (Planet of the Apes) or making old-fashioned stuff new again the way Williams did (Star Wars).

Interesting note though...in regards to Jeron's comments on routes and variables of success.

I feel the Goldsmith has stayed the route and maintained the variables that brought him success, while Williams has moved away from both substantially.