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Nic Raine as conductor?....
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Topic: Nic Raine as conductor?....
Gae
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Just been listening to the CD "Alien Invasion-Space and Beyond 2"(Silva Screen) by Nic Raine and the City of Praque Philharmonic. Anyway, I'm quite impressed by how close to the original scores these interpretations are. My question then is this. Would these be the original orchestrations or has Nic Raine orchestrated them himself? My opinion is that they sound original! If true, How do they get round the copyrights? They must have to pay a huge amount in royalties up front surely? The reason I'm asking all these questions is that in the past, I've made a point of avoiding CD's that aren't original scores, with exceptions of course, e.g. Gerhardt...but on the basis of this recording the differences are negligible and dont affect the listening pleasure. Well done to Nic Raine!! In the past I have had the misfortune to buy (unknown to myself) really poor interpretations under the guise of original recordings e.g. Geoff Love, Neil Norman and the worst being cheaply put together synthesized CD's by the likes of The London Theater Orchestra or some other dubious title. Have any of you bought CD's in the past accidentally believing them to be original, only finding out that they are in fact cheap imitations?
Gae NPThe Last Starfighter[Message edited by Gae on 01-28-2001]
posted 01-28-2001 01:01 PM PT (US) Nicolai P. Zwar
Oscar® Winner
Gae, some of the stuff you mentioned must belong to the worst film music re-recordings ever to hit the shelves of record stores. You know, in there used to be a lot of this stuff... softened cover versions of film themes, some of them sounding like they were performed by a deaf grandma on a Hammond organ. God, do I have some dopey LPs from those times. Mind you, I knew they weren't the original soundtrack recordings when I bought them, I just didn't know they were so darn bad. The recordings by Nic Raine for Silva Screen belong into a whole different category (as do the re-recordings of Varese Sarabande, Marco Polo, and Intrada). I would assume they actually used the original printed scores for their performances and/or reconstructed them as well as possible. Mind you, I have not heard the "Alien Invasion-Space and Beyond 2", but I do know Nic Raine's John Barry recordings for Silva (some of them even improved on the original soundtrack recording). Beyond recording for Silva, Nic Raine has also worked as an orchestrator for Barry and has conducted various other projects (he conducted, for example, the original soundtrack recording of Wojchiech Kilar's Portrait of a Lady).NP: Alex North Bite The Bullet
(Limited Prometheus Release) posted 01-29-2001 10:14 AM PT (US) ZapBrannigan
Oscar® Winner
I'm a Nic Raine fan, too. I love his version of KING KONG's "Prelude and Love Theme" from the ZULU compilation (but I don't have the whole thing).RAISE THE TITANIC is an all-time favorite. And I also have CINEMA CENTURY 2000, a 4-CD set from Silva with music from 56 movies. He always does a good job.
posted 02-01-2001 07:17 AM PT (US) Graham Watt
Oscar® Winner
Mmmm, I don't know. I've just heard Nic Raine's takes on things like Superman (the Love Theme), The Shadow, Somewhere In Time etc, and I was really falling asleep at how S-L-O-W--H-E--T-O-O-K--E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G-! Every bar seemed S-T--R---E----T-----C-----H-----E-------D beyond belief! Let's be generous and call them interesting interpretations by Mr. Raine.I think I may have noticed the odd fluff and even wrong notes on occasion (though that may just because the orchestra was balanced differently from the originals: too much weight in the brass, for example, might obscure what was before another note on strings).
In fact, after hearing his take on Horner's The Rocketeer today, I put on the William Motzing- conducted version (on Silva too, and done with the same orchestra in Prague). I prefer the Motzing. It sounds to me more authentic, and even better played, which is curious.
Delving into this a bit further, I dragged out the other CDs I have which feature Nic Raine with The City Of Prague Philharmonic. I don't have many, but he does seem to reveal himself as being a wee bit hit and miss, to my ears anyway:-
James Bernard's The Devil Rides Out has got the right tempo I think, but has a glaring "wrong note" (see my earlier comment though).
Nosferatu on the other hand seems just right (however, as this is the original, we have nothing to compare it against).
And, although I haven't heard it, Raising The Titanic seems to get a huge thumbs up from everyone.
I don't doubt Mr. Raines' love of film music at all, and I believe that his intentions are genuine, but for me he has yet to show the grand mastery of re-recordings which have been displayed so majestically by Charles Gerhardt, Bruce Broughton (with the Rozsa scores) and those great guys at Marco Polo.
posted 02-09-2001 02:14 PM PT (US) Gae
Oscar® Winner
Graham, after so much agreeing discussion are we going to have our first difference of opinion or "tiff" here?
I cant really speak for the other Nic Raine CD's as I dont have them. With regards to "Space and Beyond 2" though, the tempos seem quite accurate. I have the original recordings of "Contact", "Starship Troopers" (on DVD) and of course "Star Trek:The Motion Picture and so can compare the recordings easily. As regards to "slow" tempos Mr. Raine's version of Starship Troopers is actually taken slightly faster than in the movie. It would be interesting to know if the original scores have metronome markings or whether they just have written Adagio, Andante, Allegro etc which are open to a diversity of interpretations regarding exact tempo. In defence of Nic raine though or any conductor, unless there are exact metronome markings in the score its very difficult to please everyone's idea of the most accurate tempo. Also, how many movies have you seen where the music seems much faster in the movie than on later recordings of the score? An example I can think of is "Psycho" where the opening "prelude" music is taken at an incredible rate and yet recordings done by Herrmann years later were a lot slower. Herrmann has always leant on the slower side in his conducting if you ask me any way. I reckon the answer is this. As you get older, your metabolism slows down and you become a lot more "laid back" with everything and enjoy hearing every nuance of the music as opposed to taking it at an adolescently hormonal-pumping break neck speed...hence the "held back" tempos! Thats my theory anyway. Also, as regards "bum" notes, if you have a keen ear you can hear them every where in recordings. Recently I was listening to "You Only Live Twice" and I heard at least 2, maybe 3 mistakes in the high register of the brass during some of the more punchy action motifs. Maybe we notice these mistakes more the more we get to know a soundtrack. Personally, I think it only adds to the human quality and shows the difficulty of the music. Also, if you've just recorded a great cue with loads of adrenalin and feeling evident, it would be a shame to scrap it just because there were a couple of near-miss notes. I'd hate to hear music so perfect and clinically performed that it sounds like a computer playing it!! Gae [Message edited by Gae on 02-10-2001]
posted 02-10-2001 06:09 AM PT (US) Graham Watt
Oscar® Winner
Jings joke, Gae, a tiff! Roll those shirt sleeves up! Seriously though, I do actually agree with much of what you have to say. Tempo is a notorious issue, and it's true that on the Herrmann albums, he takes Psycho a lot slower than in the film. Whenever we are used to a particular tempo, any slowing down or quickening up can seem jarring at first, not because it's bad, but because it's different. But I doubt I'll get used to Nic Raine's oh-so-slow rendition of Alien for example. Have you heard that one?As regards fluffs, yes, I've heard them on a couple of very polished releases, and they don't bother me. But I detect some extented passages of sloppiness on a few of those Raine/ Prague Philharmonic recordings.
More objectionable are the "wrong notes". I put this in inverted commas because they might not actually be such (see what I said in my earlier post about balance), nevertheless I THINK that the James Bernard main title for The Devil Rides Out has been CHANGED. In the original soundtrack, after those inexorably climbing phrases, Bernard lets loose with his climactic DUM DUM DUM DUM DEEEE (high) DA-DA (low, those last three notes similar to his Dracula theme). But Raine goes DUM DUM DUM DUM DEEEE DEEEE- DA (those last three notes being two highs and a low). Well, I know that there are starving children in the world and all this is very petty, but it quite spoiled my picnic. Was it too hard to get it right, or is it ME who's wrong?
Anyway, I'm rolling my shirt sleeves down now.
posted 02-10-2001 01:16 PM PT (US) Gae
Oscar® Winner
posted 02-10-2001 07:02 PM PT (US) Old Infopop Software by UBB