After searching high and low for a copy of the Jap. CD I have come to the conclusion that the score for Superman II is really rather poor. After repeated listenings of the LSO's original score, the orchestra on II sound plain bad. Worst of all is the fact that THERE IS NO NEW MATERIAL! The entire score is just a recycling of JOhn Williams work, and a poor one at that .

Superman III is a different matter altogether. The orchestra sounds better IMO, and Ken Thorne wrote some neat original material which blends in well with the original material, I especially dig that Opening Title

I think the whole story behind the turbulent making of Superman II is fascinating and I invite you all to take a look at; http://www.deceptions.net/superman/superman2/s2analysis.htm

The Salkind Brothers were up to their old trick, by tricking everyone to believe that Superman 1 and 2 were just one flick. Like they did with The Three Musketeers and Fourth Musketeers. They did not tell anyone that those two films were TWO films when Richard Lester was filming them.

They, the Salkind Brothers were sued by the actors and production cast. They were all fooled by those Salkind Borthers, as were Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman, and others on the Superman film.

When Richard Donner was filming Superman, which was a very large film, he was filming the sequel, without anyone knowing what the Salkind Brothers were up to. But Donner had already directed about 1/2 of Superman 2 when he already had directed Superman, the stories become very different at this point, the one that is told in studios circles and at Warner Brothers, is that Warner told the Salkind Brothers that Superman was TOO LARGE to show in the movie houses, so cut it. Salkind Brothers told Donner that They was wanted him to stop the Superman flick at the point where Superman is turning back the world to save Lois Lane. Stop!!!!

But That Superman above had alot more footage, including tons of Superman 2, which remember Donner had directed. But Donner was so pissed, and John Williams had already scored that film, and he was already on Lucas's Empire Strikes Back, so he could not come back and rescore.

They fired Donner. Williams left, and Hackman would not reshoot, and then all hell broke loose. Brando sued, all the actors were pissed, and that lefted the Salkind Brothers to do the editing. Remember that Unworths had already photograph over 1/2 of Superman two also. That is why we see his name credited.

Salkind Brothers are weasels, and everyone knows that. Baird edited a huge film down to over a 2 1/2 excellent film. But I wonder if Donner had not been fired, and Williams had done the second flic, and they got the sound right. I never have liked the Lester version, it stinks. Donner would have blended the right amount of seriousness and humor together. But Lester is about fluff.

I used to really hate what Ken Thorne had done to Superman 2, but he was hired by the Salkind Brothers to do a job. That was it.

Donner actually filmed 4/5 of the film, as it has been discovered his street fight was actually shot. I'm hping these scenes will be on the DVD, but I ain't holding my breath.

I think you are wrong, and right. I know that the Salkind Brothers and PIerre Spengler are ****ing weasels. Scums of the earth for what they did to John Williams, Ken Thorne and to Richard Donner, and the rest of the production team.

Superman 1 and 2 were suppose to be really one gigantic flic. But it was quicly realized by everyone that there was enough material for two flics.

It was the Salkind Brothers and Spengler who lied and cheated everyone involved and used Richard Lester. They all did the same stunt for the Three and Fourth Musketeers. Everyone sued them for doing that, and they did it again without telling anyone for Superman 2, made the flic. Richard Donner filmed and directed over 60 to 70 percent of Superman 2!!!!

Which was Superman 1. Remember the whole story hinges on Gene Hackman. He is the key to Superman 2. He only did Superman 1 remember that. Hackman would not come back to reshoot, or retakes, or even voice overs, he knew what those weasels were up to.

Because there was so much material filmed on Superman, those Salkind Brothers knew if Superman flew, they had a sequel, without no one catching on before it was too late.

Marlon Brando also wanted more money, if there was going to be a sequel, but they had the last laugh, they just used his hand, and Father, Father, was replaced with Mother, Mother!!! and some other scenes were cut.

That is when Richard Lester was brought in to just refilm, some key scenes. that is it.

Superman 2 was actually a critical success. They thought it was better than the first. But remember kiddies, Richard Donner had already directed this film.

I was one who know what those Weasel Brothers were doing to everyone involved. I beleive that if Richard Donner and John Williams had stayed and not been runned off, Superman 2 would of been even better than the first, and with David and Leslie Newmans' script and Richard Donner's original ideas and vison, we all would of been in for a real treat.

A Richard Lester scene was when the three criminals from the planet Krypton were in the country town, one of the aliens had a country farmer in the air, and his son, with the blantant ENGLISH accent said, Please let my father down!!!!!

I screamed at the damn scene, RICHARD LESTER YOU **** UP!!!!

As I have said before, the sound and music for Superman 2 was thin. Ken Thorne and his high school band was a slap in the face to John Williams and the LSO. But I cannot fault Ken Thorne, he was paid by tose weasel Brothers, Salkinds.

I would love to see Richard Donners film of Superman 2. I hope that Warner Brothers and Richard Donner get together and find all the prints that Donner had done, and just do the right thing.

But it is about money, that will never happen. As you watch Superman 2, I could tell what was Richard Donners, and Richard Lesters. Fluff, is Lester. The great ideas, and seriousness with the very slight humor was Donner.

Brando was never going to come back for Superman2 because the Salkinds used him to get more funding for the film. It was a clever ploy, this is when Donner started calling them *******s.

A lot of problems had arisen from Muskerteers and boiled over into Superman.
But, everyone knew that they would be shooting 2 films, Hackman, Perrine, Beatty and Brando shot everything for "2" so they never had to comeback unlike the others.

Kidder sued the producers and got a million for "2". Reeve got more money as well. Salkinds settled the Brando problem, paying him 15million in 1990, i think.

So remember Donner had film a ton of Superman. We all know that no film is filmed in sequence. But Donner had filmed so much of Superman, and Warner Brothers told the Salkind Brothers to edit this massive project, and so they HAD two films.

Donner had already filmed Superman, Now Those weasel Salkind Brothers bring in Lester and only use him to direct maybe 30 percent to fill in the holes.

But Darth, Geoffrey Unsworth had died, the photograher, why was his name in Superman 2????

Unsworth is credited because he photographed 70-75% of S2 with Donner. Unsworth died in 1979.

Superman and Superman2 were always going to be one huge film seperated in 2 parts, not because WB said so, that was the plan from the get go. They shot S1 and S2 together (until the hiatus on 2) because it would save money. It's only when Lester came aboard (he knew he was going to finish S2) as uncredited producer that the plan changed. Lester said that all work should be concentrated on Superman The Movie because of the looming deadline!

I've done a lot of research on this, spoken to people involved with the production etc.

I hope this doesnt change and we ALL get to see the revamped Superman in the theatres!!!

Lester would have known well what he was getting into, and so should have the cast: the Salkinds shot THE THREE MUSKETEERS and THE FOUR MUSKETEERS back-to-back, without TELLING the actors they were making the original and a sequel. By the time of the SUPERMEN, they were contractually obliged to admit they were making two movies at once. Donner went way over schedule and budget, which is one reason Lester was brought in. The story becomes murky at this point ... but all the "expert" opinions above sound correct to me.

Young wrote that once Dick Lester was brought in to "assist" Dick Donner, he decided to lighten the situation by making a poster or T-shirts or something that pronounced "Only SUPERMAN has TWO DICKS!"

As far as Ken Thorne's scores, I think he did as well as he could, given the schedule and budget. I particularly like the cue "Ursa Flies Over Moon," a splendid expansion on Williams' original Planet Krypton music. And I like the bouncy main title to SUPERMAN III, although in that one, there's a lazy overreliance on the same Krypton music for the "Good Supey vs. Bad Supey" sequences.