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      The Great Race (Page 1)

    Archive of old forum. No more postings.

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    This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2
    Author
    Topic:   The Great Race

     Marc Flake
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    Hey, I was counting on you guys to keep me abreast of new soundtrack releases. I'm futzing about the web at work today and find out that the soundtrack for "The Great Race" is out!

    Although it's not in the same league as "The OMega Man" or "Capricorn One," it is a fun composition.

    I'm looking forward to Professor Fate's theme as well as that sappy "tree in the forest" song that had the follow the bouncing ball motif.

    This is also one of my all time favorite movies.

    Why didn't any of y'all tell me about this one?

    I got my copy -- bought it at Footlights, which is having a five day sale through Sunday. 15% off!

    Marc

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    posted 01-12-2001 07:41 PM PT (US)     

     Chris Kinsinger
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    "Come along with me, to the Sweetheart Tree..."

    I LOVE The Great Race! One of the greatest pie throwing scenes in the history of cinema!

    Also, another great Mancini score!

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    posted 01-12-2001 07:48 PM PT (US)     

     Hard Target
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    The Great Race is alright for a score of it's time. I wish you guys talked more bout Henry Mancini. Man here was a guy who was really dedicated to his work and had fun doing it. Something which is sorely lacking in scoring today. FUN! Okay all or most of Mancini's scores sound alike, but they're original and that's the beauty bout them. Today I was listening to really underrated gem, The Thief Who Came To Dinner man what an awesome score this is. Thanks to an LP transfer luckily I was able to have this one and it's a shame that Warner Bros. hasn't released it yet on CD. And there are other Mancini scores that deserve a CD release like The Man Who Loved Women, Who's Killing the Great Chiefs of Europe, Harry and Son and more. It's been 7 years since his passing, don't you guys think it's time to remember and release his stuff more. Mancini rocks may he rest in peace.

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    posted 01-13-2001 01:05 AM PT (US)     

     Marc Flake
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    And don't forget "Peter Gunn," "Charade" and "The Pink Panther."

    I'd really like to get a hold of some good cuts from "Charade." Especially the fast-paced chase music with all the percussion.

    Marc

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    posted 01-13-2001 05:11 AM PT (US)     

     John Morgan
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    The album is a rerecording with much of the orchestration reduced and modified. I wish someone like FSM would get the original tracks and release a deluxe edition from the true original music tracks.
    John


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    posted 01-13-2001 07:04 AM PT (US)     

     Chris Kinsinger
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    Mancini could do it all, beautifully.
    I started a thread long ago about my love of Mancini's scores for The Molly Maguires, Experiment In Terror, and LifeForce.
    There were very few posts before it sank into oblivion.
    Not too many Mancini fans here, I suppose.
    I agree that The Thief Who Came To Dinneris another great Mancini score!

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    posted 01-13-2001 11:46 AM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    I imagine if more people heard Lifeforce, there'd be more comments about him.


    NP -- Dinosaur, JNH

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    posted 01-13-2001 12:09 PM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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    Chris, I bet this post falls into oblivion soon, too. It's unfortunate but not suprising. As we know, most everyone here loves the orchestral score. While Mancini wrote some great orchestral scores, his best was always the perfect mix of heavy (but lightly toned) rhythms, catchy riffs sweetened with orchestral sprinkles. All of this is great stuff, but it doesn't sound like Jerry Goldsmith or James Horner. Hence the reasons why a lot of deserved threads about Mancini and quite a few other composers are still yet to be seen. Hopefully more will join our community who feel as strongly about Mancini as the two or three others here. If one guy keeps blaring the horn about Mancini, it's one thing, but if 10 people started talking about him all the time, it's another. Let's hope for more of the latter!

    To stick with the topic though, people have been hoping for the The Great Race to appear on CD since CDs were first manufactured. I hope it happens soon. Meanwhile, I fortunate to have a very clean copy of the LP... which I need to get transferred to CD soon!

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    posted 01-13-2001 12:11 PM PT (US)     

     Mark Hatfield
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    I have the CD - a Spanish import - and I LOVE it! "The Great Race March" is simply outstanding. The music for the pie fight (the prince: "Throw more Brandy!"), and Professor Fate's theme, are wonderful as well.

    This score was on my "Grail List" for MANY years. It's good to see folks talking about it, and this underrated composer.


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    posted 01-13-2001 12:27 PM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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    I guess it's time for my, "uhhh, duh?" of the day. I hope The Great Race is put on CD soon? Apparently, I'm in so much disbelief that it could ever happen, I didn't seem to understand the very first post in this thread. Uh, duh! I think my punishment SHOULD be to transfer the darn LP to CD and force myself to clean up every last pop and click (off a really scratched, muffled-sounding LP!). Paaiiiin. Uhhhh....

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    posted 01-13-2001 02:58 PM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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    Or maybe you guys can tie me to the wall and shoot blowdarts at me for a while. Uhhh..

    Sorry to be off topic. Heck, I liked not being able to post while I was away. I couldn't get myself into trouble. Fracken gwarbenkook.

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    posted 01-13-2001 03:02 PM PT (US)     

     Marc Flake
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    No worries, mate. We all make mistakes now and then.

    BTW, I chekced the MovieMusic.com store before I ordered it from Footlights. I woulda ordered it from you if you'd had it.

    Marc
    np: Bond Back in Action

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    posted 01-13-2001 09:41 PM PT (US)     

     Chris Kinsinger
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    Sadly, the message board regulars are mainly interested in WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW!

    Mancini isn't.

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    posted 01-13-2001 09:54 PM PT (US)     

     PeterK
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    Sooner or later, we will be getting those Spanish RCA pressings in the store. Right now they aren't handled by our distributor. But, when MM starts specializing even more, it won't matter. This year!

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    posted 01-13-2001 10:12 PM PT (US)     

     joan hue
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    Thumbs up to your remarks, Chris. (And PeterK) I don't mind off topic banter at all and will participate in it. But I find it very sad that serious music topics that require thoughtful responses, insight, and a willingness to be open to new learnings DIE quickly...maybe 5 responses. However, if the topic is inane, 50 responses. Geez, I sound like some old mom.

    I shall have to rent The Great Race to hear this score.

    NP Robin and Marian.

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    posted 01-13-2001 10:53 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    quote:
    NP Robin and Marian.


    oh, how I miss that score.

    It currently resides in the plains and dustbowl of West Texas, whilst I pine for all my scores...


    NP -- Awakenings, Randy Newman; sadly only on cassette


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    posted 01-13-2001 11:02 PM PT (US)     

     joan hue
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    JJH, if I come to Vegas, I'll bring it with me when we go see Shaun dance.
    NP same....

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    posted 01-13-2001 11:18 PM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    I think Shaun's doing some belly dancing at the Aladdin.


    either that, or he's man-whorin' in Pahrump.

    (oh, what an appropriate city name).


    NP -- Muzyka Filmowa 2, Wojciech Kilar; this is a CD EVRYONE needs to get

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    posted 01-13-2001 11:30 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    I believe that the dearth of appreciation for older composers or different composers has more to do with the demographics of computer access than any inherent bias on the part of film score fans.

    Consider the set of people who engage in discussions here and other places on the net regarding film music:

    You are probably under 34 (52% of web users fall into this age with 40% of this group under 22).
    You are probably, a narrow slice of the 4% of Americans who actually buy classical music, even though 1/3 of Americans say they like classical music. Film music is not even rated in the 1992 survey. (Too small to make the statistical cut, I suppose.)

    You are probably male (64% likely). Quoting the survey:

    "Men and women have relatively minor differences in musical tastes. Yet certain stereotypes about music and the sexes may contain a grain of truth. Women prefer music that is gentler and more lyrical, while men tend to like their tunes fast and loud."

    Taking into account these things, you are probably a male, born in 1967 (Keep in mind that this is for the older segment of this group. Most would be younger than this) or later who is part of a very small piece of the music buying public. You would have been ten or younger in 1977 when Star Wars hit the scene. Your formative years would have been spent without Henry Mancini (Unless you happen to live in a house with a fan) or the bulk of jazz infused scores, the golden age composers were mostly dead or scoring very few films.

    The scores that made the big impression on you were John Williams and Jerry Goldsmith and James Horner orchestral feasts because these were the films you saw that enchanted you and brought about your interest in film music.

    Of course, once you got into the hobby you heard about other composers who composed things in the 60’s and even longer ago than that far off decade. You may even have seen some of these movies via the VCR, but that’s not the same as going to the Cineplex and being blown away by the massive sound a modern cinema sports.

    These are generalizations and so there are always those who don’t fit this profile even though they fall into this group, but I think this does hold true mostly for the bulk of film score fans in this group. This is why (in my view), threads about golden age composer languish and threads about Gladiator run rampant. This is why John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, James Horner top most lists on this or any other board.

    [Message edited by MWRuger on 01-14-2001]

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    posted 01-14-2001 09:20 AM PT (US)     

     JJH
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    In my case, it was Danny Elfman and John Barry who captured my interest in film music. Dances With Wolves and Batman, dude.

    course I'd heard Star Wars and Jaws, but was only keenly aware of the main themes and nothing more.


    NW -- Ravens vs Raiders AFC Championship Game

    something is entirely wrong with the universe when the Giants destroy the Vikings.

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    posted 01-14-2001 01:44 PM PT (US)     

     Gae
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    I've always found the selection of cues for some of his scores have always lent more towards the songs or "easy listening" restaurant or "source" music e.g..."Charade" "Arabesque" "Pink Panther" etc and thats put me off buying more of his scores. I do think that "Lifeforce" is a great "orchestral" score to a silly and fun Sci-Fi movie with quite a few unintentionally funny moments. Do you remember the scene where London is over-run with flesh-eating zombies and cannibals and the city is burning to the ground like some apocalyptic scene never seen before? All Colin Firth can say on witnessing this hell-hole nightmare is "Good God!" I think the script writer's finished early that day. Anyway, back at the ranch and Mancini. Whenever I watch "Charade" (a favourite movie) I always notice how brilliant the chase and suspense music is and yet there's none of it on the soundtrack except the light music. Dont get me wrong, the music is lovely, but I'd prefer to get my hands on the score too. The same applies, although not as much,with "Arabesque". The music in this sounds different to the music in the movie incidently..I have a "Spanish Import" version. It seems to me like the producers of a lot of Mancini's scores seem to be aiming at the "easy listening" end of the market as opposed to the "hard-core" film music collectors. Please, please, release more of his score music! Gae NP Hook

    [Message edited by Gae on 01-14-2001]

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    posted 01-14-2001 01:53 PM PT (US)     

     JEC
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    Where you guys been? GREAT RACE has been out for over a year!

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    posted 01-14-2001 07:38 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    Gae,

    I think that is the way he (Henry Mancini) wanted it. Back in the 70's, I used to listen to a steady diet of Mancini albums and the "easy listening" was exactly the target he aimed for with most of his albums. He fact, he would often re-arrange his music from films to make it more jazzy and fit the Henry Mancini mode. From "Symphonic Soul" to "Brass on Ivory" (His collaboration with Doc Severinson), which both contained Film or TV cuts were clearly aimed at the easy listening crowd.

    The only real exception that I recall was an album (can’t recall the cassette title) that he recorded with the London Symphony when he recorded a suite from The White Dawn. A beautiful piece of orchestral work. The other cuts on the album were played straight as well, but Baby Elephant March is Baby Elephant March. He played as in Hatari! but it was already jazzy and funny so he really didn’t have to do anything to it.

    I just don’t think he took his film scores very seriously. He saw his job away from supporting the movie with his score as an entertainer. So he arranged his works accordingly. Take a look at The Great Race. He includes all the songs, which are clearly easy listening, and the score itself is geared towards that particular listener. In a way, he is very much like John Williams in that he was willing to re-arrange a score to make it more accessible to his audience.

    I am sure that there is a Mancini expert out there who can tell us more about why he chose to arrange the way he did.

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    posted 01-14-2001 09:12 PM PT (US)     

     Marc Flake
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    As far as Charade goes, perhaps we can hope that Silva Screen will send the score to Vic Raines and he and his Czech buddies can put out a "re-recording."

    I know there are some on the list who put down Silva, but I like their re-recordings. And if we could get some of Charade's chase/suspence music, that would be excellent.

    JEC--That's what I mean, I count on this group to keep me updated on new "old" music coming out. I just happened to have some free time to do some browsing and came across it. Don't keep this stuff under your hat. Next thing you'll be telling me is that MYSTERY ALASKA's been out for six weeks LOL.

    Joan: Rented The Great Race yet? I want to know what you think.

    Marc

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    posted 01-15-2001 08:09 PM PT (US)     

     joan hue
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    Hey, Marc, haven’t found it yet, but I will.

    I was looking at some videos today and found THE THORN BIRDS, an
    older TV mini series. I remember adoring the main theme, so I looked at the
    cover and discovered the music was by Mancini. He was certainly more
    versatile than many realize.

    NP Solo from C. Franke’s compilation

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    posted 01-15-2001 08:41 PM PT (US)     

     H Rocco
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    Mom is correct: Mancini had a LOT more range than people often realize. And unlike his contemporary Frank DeVol, he channeled more of his energies to dramatic film music than pop music, more often than, regrettably, is remembered. Everything from LIFEFORCE to THE MOLLY MAGUIRES -- and I'd be curious to hear his rejected score to Hitchcock's FRENZY.

    NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD director George A. Romero wanted Mancini to score THE DARK HALF; the studio wanted Mark Isham (sorry fans, but bleaaah). They compromised on Christopher Young. I believe Mancini's last suspense score was for Rockne O'Bannon's FEAR (1990 or so.)

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    posted 01-15-2001 11:07 PM PT (US)     

     Gae
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    I remember "THE THORN BIRDS" theme also Joan, although I never watched the series..honestly, I didn't . I found it in a "Film Themes" piano book once and had fun playing it. If I remember it was a kind of 6/8 Jig piece with a lovely folky melody. Gae NP Hook

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    posted 01-16-2001 02:20 PM PT (US)     

     Marc Flake
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    Just got my copy of this in today. The music is arranged (should be rearranged) and conducted by Mancini "aimed at musical balance rather than plot sequence." I hate it when they do that, but then now we have programable CD players (HA!).

    It has all my favorite tunes from the movie, the "Great Race March" and Professor Fate's theme "Push the Button, Max!" and the "Pie-In-the-Face Polka."

    It also has the madcap beginning of the race "They're Off" and the "Royal Waltz."

    Songs include the above mentioned "Sweetheart Tree" and something called "He Shouldn't-a, Oughtn't-A Swang on Me!" (the latter sung by Dorothy Provine.

    Only about 26 minutes of music -- par for the course for a soundtack in the 60s. I kinda wish they'd doubled up with Ron Goodwin's "Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines."

    Now I want to see the movie again. Guess I'll introduce it to the kids this weekend.

    Marc
    NP: The Great Race

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    posted 01-16-2001 07:24 PM PT (US)     

     Chris Kinsinger
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    I thought that Dorothy Provine's song was called "He Shouldn't-a, Oughtn't-A, Hadn't-a Swang on Me!".
    But then I often have difficulty remembering the important stuff.

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    posted 01-16-2001 07:54 PM PT (US)     

     joan hue
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    I watched this today, Marc. Had many fine Mancini themes which sounded familiar. Wasn't sure I'd get into the movie as I hate slapstick comedy, but darn if that silly Jack Lemmon and sidekick didn't rope me in and win me over.

    NP Komodo...now this is a scary piece of music after watching a comedy.

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    posted 01-16-2001 10:31 PM PT (US)     

     Marc Flake
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    Chris:

    You were right, I said "latter" not "former."

    The "former" song, "Sweetheart Tree" is sung on the CD by the "corus (sic)" and not Natalie Wood (Natalie Wood, *sigh*).

    Marc

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    posted 01-17-2001 08:22 AM PT (US)     

     Marc Flake
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    Joan:

    Professor Fate and Max are my two favorite characters from the movie. I was so glad when they won!

    I've always wanted to make a model of that great looking car, too. No luck.

    And Professor Fate's theme is my favorite piece of music from the CD.

    Marc

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    posted 01-17-2001 08:33 AM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    As long as we are on the subject of Mancini, does anyone here remember "Wait Until Dark"?

    A very creepy tune that Mancini did for the Audrey Hepburn thiller about a murderer who terrorizes a blind girl. The whistling is the creepest part!

    As far as I know, there is no score release on CD other the main title on a Big Film Music release called (Naturally) Film Music of Audrey Hepburn.

    Anbody know this score? Is it available?

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    posted 01-18-2001 07:57 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    Well, I waited a year so I guess nobody remembers "Wait Until Dark"

    Actually, I thought I would bring this one back up for discussion now that most of these Mancini albums are available in the MovieMusic store.

    I also wanted to give a plug for the Music From Peter Gunn album. There isn't abad cut on here and most of them rock!

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    posted 01-29-2002 10:00 AM PT (US)     

     soundtrackman
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    There were only two pieces of music ever released from "Wait Until Dark" - the theme, in a re-arranged version, typical of Mancini, and a secondary theme, also rearranged, called "Theme for Three" which was available on several of Mancini's RCA compilation albums.

    The original score, as heard in the film, has never been released, although to my ear, some of the music from "The Night Visitor" (which WAS released on a CITADEL CD some years ago) reminds me of the more dramatic portions of the "Wait Until Dark" score.

    I've been on a Mancini kick myself lately, and think it would be great to hear more of the original music this very talented composer wrote for films spanning 30 years.

    Mark T.

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    posted 01-29-2002 10:55 AM PT (US)     

     Graham Watt
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    That WAIT UNTIL DARK whistled theme was very haunting and creepy. It was tracked into at least one TV Movie (THE EYES OF CHARLES SAND) during the musicians' strike back in the early 70s. More recently I thought I detected borrowings (the out of tune piano note) in the main titles of...can't remember! A Danny Elfman thing? A film with snow in it?

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    posted 01-29-2002 01:46 PM PT (US)     

     MWRuger
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    The main theme for Wait Until Dark was included on the album, Music from the Films of Audrey Hepburn. This was the original recording according to the liner notes. It is very chilling indeed.

    This album includes some other work by Henry Mancini like Two for the Road and Moon River from Breakfast at Tiffany's.

    It also includes the main title from How to Steal a Million by "Johnny Williams".

    Quite good.

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    posted 01-29-2002 07:28 PM PT (US)     

     Lou Goldberg
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    I'm chime in on Mancini. First, as stated before, most of the crew around here is young and so silver & golden age guys aren't what they grew up with. Nonetheless, through a few scores like Lifeforce and word of mouth from the rest of us, I'm sure someone's curious.

    After spending 10 years in the Universal scoring pool writing cues for Francis the Mule, Abbott & Costello, and various monster movies, Mancini broke out with Peter Gunn and had an amazing streak of scores that resounded with the public: Mr. Lucky, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Hatari!, The Days of Wine and Roses, Charade, etc.

    Unfortunately, many of the soundtrack albums for Mancini films highlighted the themes and source cues over the more dramatic scoring. Breakfast contains a wonderful sequence of scoring near the film's end where they search for the missing cat in the rain but forget ever hearing it on one of RCA's LPs. In fact, in this respect, all of the Mancini soundtracks are disappointing. There are cues from Hatari! and Two For The Road and Charade that are so good but instead we get all the pop stuff.

    And I'm sure the pop stuff kept Mancini from getting serious jobs though he still did get them (i.e. Wait Until Dark, The White Dawn, The Night Visitor) and did great but "un-Mancini-esque" things with them.

    AMC just showed Man's Favorite Sport on the 21st and I caught most of it. In an interview for Fanfare Magazine, Mancini called it the one film he didn't want to do: "I did it as a favor." And yet, it has a really fun score that has completely fallen through the cracks.

    Silver Streak is out on CD now. It also just played on AMC. And it's a great blend of both Mancini fun and suspense cues.

    Themes to both Fear and Frenzy-rejected are on Mancini's Music, Monsters and Meyhem CD. Oddly, Hitchcock dumped Mancini because his score was too serious, maybe too Herrmann-esque. Goodwin gave Hitchcock the main title he wanted but the rest of Goodwin's score harks back to Herrmann as well.

    Always one for serious scoring, I don't always appreciate Mancini's lighter side as much as I should. I put together a tape of batchelor pad music that was mostly Mancini that used to both amuse and seduce women and so I owe Hank an O or two (which is more than I can say for any other film composer), but even so, I'd trade that to have more of his serious side to listen too myself.

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    posted 01-29-2002 09:01 PM PT (US)     

     perfpitch
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    THE MOLLY MAGUIRES is a lovely little score for an underappreciated movie.

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    posted 01-30-2002 03:16 AM PT (US)     

     Gae
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    Lou, You're right. I actually stopped buying Mancini scores after about 4 or 5 albums because I was always disappointed with the choice of all the "easy listening" songs rather than the dramatic cues. Dont get me wrong, he wrote very beautiful songs but they needed to be balanced with the dramatic scores. As mentioned above there's some great chase music at the end of "Charade" which would have been great on the soundtrack. The same can be said about "Arabesque"...too many "source" music cues (although they did have the "Aquarium" music on the score which is cool) Incidentally, I bought a Spanish Import version of "Arabesque" years back and the music on the album seems to be a different recording to what actually appears in the film. Can anyone confirm this please?

    Gae NP Film Music "End Titles" compilation

    [Message edited by Gae on 01-30-2002]

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    posted 01-30-2002 02:26 PM PT (US)     
     

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